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    New VTEC technology

    Well, it has been 15 years since DOHC VTEC hit the US shores in the form of the 1991 Acura NSX...

    It has been 5 years since i-VTEC hit the US shores.

    VTEC was absolutely a ground breaking technology when it debuted worldwide, as it blurred the traditional compromise between low RPM performance and high RPM horsepower. By incorporating a system that allowed multiple cam profiles on one cylinder, they were able to build engines that had leading edge emmissions and MPG performance, while putting out power numbers and revving to heights that had not been seen from those displacements before.

    This allowed Honda to develop a line of engines that had the highest specific outputs ever seen in production engines. The original S2000 still holds that record for NA engines...

    Most are used to DOHC VTEC with its distinctive kick in the pants at changeover.

    Over time, technologies developed that equalled or exceeded the abilities of VTEC.

    Some companies chose to incorporate what is known as "variable cam phasing" to improve their engines power band.

    Variable cam phasing has no effect on the lift or duration of the camshaft, rather it is like an electronically adjustable cam gear. Changing the position of the cam gear results in the shifting of the powerband up or down the RPM range. This has become the most common method of "variable valve timing."

    Variable cam phasing is the technology that Honda adopted to put the "i" in i-VTEC. They have incorporated it on the intake cam only. The majority of new Honda i-VTEC engines feature VTEC on the intake cam only, with an unadjustable standard camshaft running the exhaust valves. This is true of most K series, the R series, and the J series.

    On certain high performance engines, there is VTEC on both intake and exhaust cams. Even on these engines, variable cam phasing is only incorporated on the intake cam.

    Eventually, BMW came up with a system called "Valvetronic" that basically uses a series of adjustable rocker arms to vary the amount of lift produced by the intake camshaft. This not only allowed further blurring of the high vs low RPM compromise, it also allowed BMW to eliminate the throttle body on cars equipped with this technology because Valvetronic allows 0" lift and 0" duration. By varying the amount of valve lift, it is possible to throttle the engine using only the intake valves.

    Pretty neat stuff.

    This brought several advantages with it, not the least of which is improved fuel economy. This occurs because when the throttle plate on a traditional engine is closed, we get what is called a "pumping loss". Basically the valve lift stays the same, and the engine is trying to suck just as much air through an intake system that is closed by the throttle.

    This results in a tremendous usage of energy because the engine has to suck really really hard to get air. It also has to suck really really hard on a very large volume (head, ports, IM etc).

    Valvetronic virtually eliminates this problem, because now the engine only needs to suck air past the partly open intake valves, so the overall amount of energy used is reduced significantly.

    Any time we can get the same job done, while using less energy or harnessing more of it, we are going to burn less fuel.

    BMW had previously developed VANOS which is basically variable cam phasing, just like the "i" in i-VTEC. BMW eventually developed it for both the intake and the exhaust cam. I do believe they were the company that introduced this technology to the market.

    When coupled with VANOS, Valvetronic allows virtually no compromise in powerband, because we can use Valvetronic to get the best lift and duration for a given RPM, and we can use VANOS to change the cam position in relation to RPM, putting our lobes at the most beneficial point for that particular RPM.

    VOILA! High RPM power AND Low RPM torque, while improving gas mileage and improving emmisions. This system also improves throttle response because there is less delay in the cylinder getting what it needs.

    The next evolution in variable cam phasing has been the development of electric cam gears. Originally, the gears were controlled by changing the amount of oil passing into the gears.

    Electrically operated gears are more precise, and aren't dependent on oil pressure to move (i.e. potentially better at low RPM).

    http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=615777

    Here is a link to a new press release from Honda today, about the new technology VTEC system.

    It is very similar to BMW's Valvetronic system, and still retains intake cam phasing.

    They don't mention whether the exhaust will retain no variable lift, or if it will be equipped with a system similar to DOHC VTEC, where there is a low lift profile and a high lift profile.

    The reason for all the focus on the intake side, is that the benefits from adjusting this side of the equation are much larger than adjusting the exhaust side. I suppose as we continue to approach the limit of the reciprocating piston engine, they will eventually incorporate exhaust technology, but that is just speculation.

    What we do know, is that this will result in significantly more bottom end torque, while allowing the engine to continue pulling all the way to redline.

    It will also reduce fuel consumption by 13%, while allowing an increase in emmissions performance, allowing the engines to meet the toughest standards in the world.

    This engine is slated for production within "3 years," but will most likely seen in the next gen Accord.

    I hope they incorporate this technology into their V6s soon. It will probably also be featured in their V8 which is currently under development as well.

    Just think, perhaps it was VTEC that allowed the great increases in power we have now. It created such a power disparity, that it forced other companies to find ways to meet and leapfrog Honda's technology. The result? More average horsepower per car than we have seen EVER.

    We have V6's putting down more than 427's and 428 of years past. Keep in mind too, that HP measurement has gotten lower and lower over the years, so 300HP today is far more than it was in 1969.

    Who knows, maybe without VTEC, we would all still be impressed with 120 HP out of 2.2 liters.

    It is speculatory, but feasible.

    It is a GREAT time to be an enthusiast.
    Last edited by owequitit; 09-26-2006, 08:01 PM.
    The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

    #2
    Interesting read.
    To-Do List for Today
    Be Awesome

    Comment


      #3
      everyone over there seems quite displeased with the K-series.

      wonder why . . .
      -Mark-
      CB7
      CD5


      And if i could swim I'd swim out to you in the ocean
      Swim out to where you were floating in the dark.

      Comment


        #4
        Ahhh owequitit...I'll just post my response from another forum...but yea, this is pretty cool stuff. I bet the 3 years is a guesstimate to when they'll buy this guy's patent...

        Originally posted by future62
        Someone already did it...I'm sure they bought his patent

        http://www.pattakon.com

        Basically he did some shit with the rocker arms to vary lift from basically zero to full lift. And it's still compatible with VTC and all that. Imagine running a full race cam w/VTEC lock, but having a lower than stock idle, and better than stock fuel economy and emissions...I'm almost 100% sure that is the system they used. It removes the throttle as well but can still be controlled mechanically...

        Homeboy actually retrofitted the system on a B16A and it worked out great. I'm just curious as to whether they just used it on the intake side like he did or went all out and put the system on both sides.
        I'm sure the exhaust could benefit too, especially as far as emissions are concerned. With low lift at low engine speeds the flow velocity would be higher...that could be beneficial...

        But yea, all in all, short of solenoids, this system combined with cam phasing is basically the final frontier of valvetrain technology. It's gonna be painful for tuners and swappers, but 150+hp/L with commendable emissions and fuel economy isn't out of the question. They've bridged the gap between the racetrack and the street.
        Last edited by gloryaccordy; 09-26-2006, 09:01 PM.


        Originally posted by lordoja
        im with you on that one bro! aint nothing beat free food and drinks any day of the week, even if its at a funeral

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by mxcx
          Interesting read.
          indeed
          i always like reading his posts....
          R.I.P.

          AzN VtEc PoWeR (6:38:35 PM): im gonna go shit in someones cereal

          Comment


            #6
            Good stuff. Very informative. Thanks man!
            My Ongoing CB7 Project

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by ACC0RD22
              everyone over there seems quite displeased with the K-series.

              wonder why . . .
              If you really spend much time over there, they are all a bunch of doomsayers.

              According to the average person on that board, Honda is going out of business. They figure it isn't EXACTLY how they want it, so it is wrong, and a failure.

              Plus, half of them don't really know anything.
              The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by owequitit
                Plus, half of them don't really know anything.
                LOL, that's the best part!

                What field do you work in? I remember something about you wanting to become a pilot...


                Originally posted by lordoja
                im with you on that one bro! aint nothing beat free food and drinks any day of the week, even if its at a funeral

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by gloryaccordy
                  Ahhh owequitit...I'll just post my response from another forum...but yea, this is pretty cool stuff. I bet the 3 years is a guesstimate to when they'll buy this guy's patent...



                  I'm sure the exhaust could benefit too, especially as far as emissions are concerned. With low lift at low engine speeds the flow velocity would be higher...that could be beneficial...

                  But yea, all in all, short of solenoids, this system combined with cam phasing is basically the final frontier of valvetrain technology. It's gonna be painful for tuners and swappers, but 150+hp/L with commendable emissions and fuel economy isn't out of the question. They've bridged the gap between the racetrack and the street.
                  If the system is significantly different, (I think the determining point for significant is 20%), then they wouldn't be required to use his system or his pattents.

                  Pattakon's system really has no advantage over Valvetronic.

                  As for Honda, they aren't releasing specifics yet, so I don't know exactly how it works. I can think of several different ways to change rocker ratio, so there is no guarantee that their system is a clone of someone else's. They were after all ingenuous enough to come up with the original variable valve timing system.

                  One disadvantage to Valvetronic is it's weight and complexity. Valvetrain mass is bad for the type of revs Honda likes, so I hope they came up with a design that is somewhat more efficient, or at least lighter.

                  I know the car would benefit from similar improvements on the exhaust side, but the cost of development apparently wasn't worth the gain.

                  For instance, when BMW put double VANOS on their 4.6 liter V8 at the time, peak power did not change, but it had a small effect on the low end torque curve (I think it was like 10 lb/ft or something).

                  At some point every technology will become worth it, but apparently, at this point in the game, Honda didn't see a gain that was enough to justify the cost.

                  On BMW's 3.0 straight six (dont know the code, but the 6 that serves the basis for everything from 323i-330i) they saw a 40HP gain with the change to Valvetronic.

                  I don't know how significantly different the head is, so I don't know what increase came from where, but it wasn't terribly powerful for a 3.0 liter to begin with (225HP). I am sure they may have compromised for torque a little bit, but it still had a torque peak within 9lb/ft of the J30's and 10 more HP. It is using much more exotic technology to get it, but where it really pays off is down low. The Bimmer's peak occurs at 2750 RPM vs 5,000, and the HP peak is 6600 instead of 6250, although the J30 isn't as peaky in real life as everyone wants to pretend.

                  Another thing the new 330i has that the J30 does not is a multi-stage intake manifold. The lower 3 series model without it is rated at 215hp from a half liter smaller displacement.

                  If Honda could achieve the same gain relative to displacement as BMW did with the 3.0, then you might expect to see a 190-200HP 2.4 liter four, that could conceivably rev to much higher than what they will do now, as well as have much more torque, and better gas mileage. I don't know if this is a refinement of the K series or not. With the length of the stroke on a K24, I almost wish they would have designed the K to displace between 1.8-2.2 liters, and then had another larger bore engine in the 2.3-2.7 range. I don't know that they would ever get to 2.7, but it is nice to have the headroom just in case.

                  They have updated the induction system as well, so I have no idea what effect that will have because they were very non-specific. They didn't say if it was multistage or not.

                  They were non-specific with the exhaust side too, although, with the TSX going turbo, the Accord 4 cylinder has just had a lot of growth limitation removed for it, so maybe it will get the traditional DOHC VTEC system on the exhaust cam.

                  That may explain why any additional development was incremental...

                  The solenoid system would mostly eliminate mass and rotating inertia/drag.

                  Realistically Valvetronic is probably capable of operating to a degree that the engine is not, but you still have to turn the cam and the valvetrain and push the springs etc...
                  Last edited by owequitit; 09-26-2006, 10:30 PM.
                  The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by gloryaccordy
                    LOL, that's the best part!

                    What field do you work in? I remember something about you wanting to become a pilot...

                    I am in the process of becoming a pilot. I will be commercially rated on both single and multi engine airplanes in the next month or so.

                    I seriously thought about becoming an AE, but I decided I would rather sit in front of a crew of hot flight attendants than a CAD screen.

                    I like the way everything works, it is fascinating, but I LOVE to fly. Nothing down here matters when you are up there, and I love the speeds, the freedom, and the view. Arizona has the prettiest sunsets I have ever seen, and seeing them from 10-12,000 feet makes them that much more spectacular.

                    LOL. That was off topic.
                    The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      dude can you say sweeeet?
                      uh... if by overboosted you mean "right the fuck on" then, sure, it is.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        OK, before I go to bed...

                        I'm still at a loss as to how Valvetronic really works. Pattakon's system is pretty intuitive and he has animations and little applets to show exactly how it works. Basically, he varies the component of travel the valve has from the input of the camshaft. Kinda like moving the point along a complicated fulcrum. I *think* Valvetronic does the same thing, but with complicated springs and a much more elaborate system. The limitation with Valvetronic is that with all that mass and spring energy they can't rev too high, which is why you will never hear of a Valvetronic ///M car.

                        With Pattakon's system, through the use of roller rockers and lighter components, valvetrain losses are significantly reduced, and revvability is almost somewhat enhanced. He retains the full range of the B16's rev capabilities without any problems.

                        As far as Honda's potential with this system; really, it's in the air. Honda has remained competitive with a SOHC V6...the added complexity and decrease in serviceability of a DOHC V6 in a FWD setup might not be worth the potential in gains. Plus, this system will drive up the cost of whatever engine it is put into quite a bit...and I can't see people paying $45K plus for a TL. On the 4-cyl side though, it's definitely beneficial and will probably make engines like the B and H series look like the A and D series in terms of moddability, response and efficiency.

                        The last part is KEY, and is what Honda can capitalize on. Right now, a car w/o this technology at idle is anologous to you sitting in front of your computer, taking in as little air as possible while going through the full range of motion on your diapragm...through a straw. With this system in place, cars will be able to breathe in a logical manner, increasing fuel economy significantly, which is something Honda can definitely use to its advantage in marketing to keep its competitive edge. Through that, they may be able to increase demand to the point that their entire lineup can be equipped with this technology, as it will seriously be that effective from what I can imagine.

                        PLUS, with this system, because the throttle is basically eliminated, for high-performance models an ITB-style trumpet manifold would be cheap, and it would sound awesome.

                        I know it's been beaten to death...but seriously, this technology in a V8 powered sports car or GT would really ice the cake of the Honda lineup. Even with a V6 it would be cool, but a flat plane V8 coupe for about $50-60K would REALLY show the world what Honda was capable of, especially with the new GT-R and Supra coming out. I could definitely see them matching those cars' outputs WITHOUT turbos, no problem.

                        I can't wait for all this cool technology to be in used cars in about 10 years...despite all my hating I must admit, it's a great time to be a car enthusaist. But that's another thread.

                        Bedtime!!!


                        Originally posted by lordoja
                        im with you on that one bro! aint nothing beat free food and drinks any day of the week, even if its at a funeral

                        Comment


                          #13
                          BMW Makes the worlds best engines....


                          Anyone ever heard of the McLaren by chance?
                          14 Ford Focus ST - stock(ish) - E30 Tune + Green Filter =

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by owequitit

                            It is a GREAT time to be an enthusiast.
                            Indeed it is!

                            With new technology it seems there is no end to this ever increasing horsepower ceiling.

                            I just wish companies would put as much effort into making cars lighter as they would with making engines stronger.
                            DEVOTE


                            __________________________________________
                            FS: Lokuputha's Stuff
                            "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow."-The Smartest Man In The World

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by verothacamaro
                              BMW Makes the worlds best engines....


                              Anyone ever heard of the McLaren by chance?

                              then why do they always break?
                              -Mark-
                              CB7
                              CD5


                              And if i could swim I'd swim out to you in the ocean
                              Swim out to where you were floating in the dark.

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