Would a plane take off on a tredmill?

[gloryaccordy]

right, but the thrust from the engine would propell the plane forward. the wheels of an airplane simply roll as far as i know. they are not powered.

For some reason i thought the myth ment that there was a "theoritical" threadmill that was able to keep the plane stationary

I thought the same when I first heard it, but yea, it would take off. There are two 50 page threads about this on H-T.

Unless you anchored the plane to the ground, it doesn't matter what it's resting on... it would take off.

The only way I could see it not taking off is if the treadmill had it moving backwards at take off speed.... but if the treadmill just doubles the speed of the wheels rolling, it will definitely take off...

[Ralphie]

I thought the same when I first heard it, but yea, it would take off. There are two 50 page threads about this on H-T.

Unless you anchored the plane to the ground, it doesn't matter what it's resting on... it would take off.

The only way I could see it not taking off is if the treadmill had it moving backwards at take off speed.... but if the treadmill just doubles the speed of the wheels rolling, it will definitely take off...

Nope.

It doesnt matter what the treadmill and wheels are doing because they do not factor into the equation.

The wheels will move backwards at twice the rate the plane is moving but nonetheless the thrust will overpower the treadmill and wheels and once wind picks up under the wings that sucker is gone.

[SN2BH22CB7]

ok...

Plane on treadmill....( are the turbines running? ) ...is there air being blown at the plane?? ( air going over wings )


wings need air to LIFT the plane.....the turbines propel the plane to get VELOCITY.

hence ...the power of the turbines..depending if their 30K - 60K of thrust.

you still need AIR moving UNDER the WINGS for LIFT ( no arguements )

simple physics!

you get enough air under the wings at a good rate...plane will lift!

( former Air Force technician ) "tactical Aircraft Maintainence"..

I just skimmed over all these conflicting theories...

NOW...

if the plane is on a giant treadmill...right...NO AIR is being supplied...but its matching the wheels ( totally independent of the turbines )......and turbines at full throttle....IT WILL NOT LIFT...theres not enough air being generated under the wings..

you NEED air...and enough of it under the wings in order for LIFT.

the air has to be moving Under the wings for lift ( repeat so the ones that oppose will understand )

its physics!



without airspeed moving under the wings...you have NO LIFT.

end of discussion.

NOTE: if there is a hugh fan blowing air at the plane in the opposite direction....( facing the plane ) and you get enough air under the wings...it will float! ( it will take off ) FLOAT.....then once its in the air..the turbines WILL propel it FORWARD.



WITHOUT AIR....the plane will not lift an inch.


Why do you think....Planes of larger mass need a long runway...they need air going under the wings at a fast rate..to LIFT the huge goat!

smaller planes dont need that long of a runway!

doesn't matter...

if the plane is sitting still...and you get a nice gust of very strong winds..DEPENDING on size ( OWEQUITIT ) stated earlier ( cessna )..that little booger will start to float...

the only thing that turbines do....is move the plane in a forward fashion for velocity speed. and to get air under the wings for lift.

( nothing else )

[sandman61377]

ok...

Plane on treadmill....( are the turbines running? ) ...is there air being blown at the plane?? ( air going over wings )


wings need air to LIFT the plane.....the turbines propel the plane to get VELOCITY.

hence ...the power of the turbines..depending if their 30K - 60K of thrust.

you still need AIR moving UNDER the WINGS for LIFT ( no arguements )

simple physics!

you get enough air under the wings at a good rate...plane will lift!

( former Air Force technician ) "tactical Aircraft Maintainence"..

I just skimmed over all these conflicting theories...

NOW...

if the plane is on a giant treadmill...right...NO AIR is being supplied...but its matching the wheels ( totally independent of the turbines )......and turbines at full throttle....IT WILL NOT LIFT...theres not enough air being generated under the wings..

you NEED air...and enough of it under the wings in order for LIFT.

the air has to be moving Under the wings for lift ( repeat so the ones that oppose will understand )

its physics!



without airspeed moving under the wings...you have NO LIFT.

end of discussion.

NOTE: if there is a hugh fan blowing air at the plane in the opposite direction....( facing the plane ) and you get enough air under the wings...it will float! ( it will take off ) FLOAT.....then once its in the air..the turbines WILL propel it FORWARD.



WITHOUT AIR....the plane will not lift an inch.

Physics...
To hold back an object generating force, you need to apply equal force in the opposite direction. Since the turbines and the FREE-ROTATING wheels are, as you say, totally independant of each other, no force is being applied opposite the turbines' force, the plane WILL move forward regardless of the treadmill, ta-dah, you have air on the wings, it takes off.
It's physics.

[Juice21]

ok so to simplifly things for ppl like me.....the treadmill is practically incoherent as to all it is doing is making the distance the plane moves for for take off extremely short.... and the air flow over the plane and the thrust from turbines makes it fly?

[LinX]

wheels do not hold the plane back at all. They are soley there to roll it around instead of dragging the plane.

[owequitit]

ok...

Plane on treadmill....( are the turbines running? ) ...is there air being blown at the plane?? ( air going over wings )


wings need air to LIFT the plane.....the turbines propel the plane to get VELOCITY.

hence ...the power of the turbines..depending if their 30K - 60K of thrust.

you still need AIR moving UNDER the WINGS for LIFT ( no arguements )

simple physics!

you get enough air under the wings at a good rate...plane will lift!

( former Air Force technician ) "tactical Aircraft Maintainence"..

I just skimmed over all these conflicting theories...

NOW...

if the plane is on a giant treadmill...right...NO AIR is being supplied...but its matching the wheels ( totally independent of the turbines )......and turbines at full throttle....IT WILL NOT LIFT...theres not enough air being generated under the wings..

you NEED air...and enough of it under the wings in order for LIFT.

the air has to be moving Under the wings for lift ( repeat so the ones that oppose will understand )

its physics!



without airspeed moving under the wings...you have NO LIFT.

end of discussion.

NOTE: if there is a hugh fan blowing air at the plane in the opposite direction....( facing the plane ) and you get enough air under the wings...it will float! ( it will take off ) FLOAT.....then once its in the air..the turbines WILL propel it FORWARD.



WITHOUT AIR....the plane will not lift an inch.


Why do you think....Planes of larger mass need a long runway...they need air going under the wings at a fast rate..to LIFT the huge goat!

smaller planes dont need that long of a runway!

doesn't matter...

if the plane is sitting still...and you get a nice gust of very strong winds..DEPENDING on size ( OWEQUITIT ) stated earlier ( cessna )..that little booger will start to float...

the only thing that turbines do....is move the plane in a forward fashion for velocity speed. and to get air under the wings for lift.

( nothing else )

Unfortunately you are wrong.

Commercial Pilot, and CFI here. I know a few things about how they work too.

[owequitit]

ok so to simplifly things for ppl like me.....the treadmill is practically incoherent as to all it is doing is making the distance the plane moves for for take off extremely short.... and the air flow over the plane and the thrust from turbines makes it fly?

Too simplify it as much as possible, the treadmill has nothing to do with anything.

If the wheels made a plane fly, then how the hell does it fly when it is off the ground, and why can't my car fly?

The treadmill and wheels have absolutely no effect on the airplane's ability to fly whatsoever.

An airplane's speed over the ground also has absolutely nothing to do with its ability to fly.

[Juice21]

Too simplify it as much as possible, the treadmill has nothing to do with anything.

If the wheels made a plane fly, then how the hell does it fly when it is off the ground, and why can't my car fly?

The treadmill and wheels have absolutely no effect on the airplane's ability to fly whatsoever.

An airplane's speed over the ground also has absolutely nothing to do with its ability to fly.

i understand the treadmill doesnt make it fly which is why i was stating the only use for the treadmill was shortening the distance it wud actually move if it was on a runway...cause on a runway, it actually has to travel a distance to get the turbines at the required i guess u can call it speed or power for take off..and being that the plane would still move forward even though on a treadmill..most of the natural distance the plane wud have actually moved for take off wud of been rolled under it by the treadmill.. thus for the only use of treadmill is shortening take off movement of plane.


but for actual take off it only requires turbines and airlow over the wings like i love how this guy put it

it's similar to having a bee on a string....it flies, but doesn't go anywhere. free entertainment. later.

[blizzard335]

Somebody needs to make a simple animation to clear things up.

And I agree with Scott, the treadmill has nothing to do with anything at all.

The plane will still roll forward on the treadmill, provided you have a 3000-ft treadmill. And most probably, the treadmill will not 'roll' at all. Correct me please.

[SN2BH22CB7]

Unfortunately you are wrong.

Commercial Pilot, and CFI here. I know a few things about how they work too.

so you mean to tell me...without AIR under the wings...it will take off?



I strongly DISAGREE with you THIS TIME Scott my friend!

you NEED air under the wings in order for LIFT!

if you claim you're a pilot...then you should know that!



if order for the plane to get off the ground..you need a substantial amount of airflow under the wings in order for LIFT..

in order for forward propulsion...you need the turbines...( forward movement )

the only aircrafts I know that will hover are the Harrier and choppers.

( doesn't need forward propulsion for takeoff ) why..they force air down to the ground for lift )


but on second thought...this reminds me...

what you stated earilier...

reminds of a project we did in physics class....

you're right...but partially..

you still need air under the wings to LIFT.

without flowing air ...how does the plane get its "LIFT" ?????

SIMPLE...

from the turbines...( they provide the propulsion )

so you're partially right!

it will take off..but it still needs a source for the air !



without the turbines...it WILL NOT take off

( went back to the physics notes I took )..................

The only way the plane will lift off is if it creates lift.....
Lift..is created by moving through the air...
When it is sitting on the conveyor belt, it is not moving through the air. No matter how fast the plane (and belt) move, it will still remain in the same position, and thus not move through the air.

theres a bunch of calculations that goes into this equation!

[owequitit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c99ZHZw97rU

Here is an airplane taking off with a headwind. Notice how slow his "groundspeed" (speed over the ground) is. Also notice that you can hear a strong wind in the camera mic.

The only thing that matters is the speed of the airflow around the wing. If that airflow can be achieved at ZERO speed over the ground, then the airplane will lift off.

Here are two flightsim videos to demonstrate, no they are not real airplanes, but the physics are real, and you just don't seem many videos of this, because it isn't done alot in real life for safety reasons. But it is possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpptCqy4suQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bdgeAN4DQ8

The first is a 747 doing a vertical takeoff.

The second is a Cessna flying backwards.

I have friends who have successfully flown an airplane at 0 speed over the ground, because the winds were strong enough to allow it.

1) This is why we always try to takeoff directly into the wind. The wind creates airflow over the wings, and thus reduces the amount that we have to accelerate to takeoff. This shortens the takeoff distance. In theory, it would be perfectly possible to takeoff with no ground roll.

It is all about the AIRSPEED at which an airplane's wing generates sufficient lift to counter the weight of the airplane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQChoy6mogA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a44e7bm2yw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI4JnyphGQM

The same rules that apply to small airplanes, also apply equally to large ones, and vice versa.

[owequitit]

i understand the treadmill doesnt make it fly which is why i was stating the only use for the treadmill was shortening the distance it wud actually move if it was on a runway...cause on a runway, it actually has to travel a distance to get the turbines at the required i guess u can call it speed or power for take off..and being that the plane would still move forward even though on a treadmill..most of the natural distance the plane wud have actually moved for take off wud of been rolled under it by the treadmill.. thus for the only use of treadmill is shortening take off movement of plane.


but for actual take off it only requires turbines and airlow over the wings like i love how this guy put it

The treadmill will not affect the takeoff distance either.

Airplanes roll on the ground to generate lift over the wings.

However, it is possible for that lift to be generated when the airplane is stationary, given a windspeed that is high enough.

I.E. An airplane could take off with NO RUNWAY distance at all, in a hurricane.

[lokuputha]

the lift on the wings are independent from what its non-driven wheels are doing

[blizzard335]

Hence, the wheels of the plane roll or travel is relative to the airspeed/windspeed.

The treadmill may be rolling at a speed and direction opposite the direction of the plane, but the plane will still takeoff.

Ive seen vids of microlights 'hovering' because there was a strong enough wind.

So, to sum it up.

A plane will take off on a treadmill. Agree?