Legal vs Illegal immigrants - double face?

[phatdoughnut]

The Laws are not strict, they regulate the amount of people coming in. It just happens that there is 20 times more mexicans trying to get in than people from other countries. They are tho time consuming, why stay in mexico for 3 yrs or more while your paper work is being processed? when you could be living in the Us illegally earning a good living(to them.) Its a way to beat the quote and still make it in.

[elositocandela]

The problem isnt the employeers, the problem is with the United states government, They are allowing this. Is everyone to blind to see this? The goverment is making billions of dollars from illegally documented people who never file their taxes.

If you were an employeer and you could get twice the work done for half the wages, which in turn ment more money in your pocket, would you do it? I can tell you right now, that if any legal got off their butt and quit milking the unemployment tit, and went out and applied for a job at a farm he could get it.

This is really true because most of the immigrants are afraid of making their taxes. Witch its taken even if they don’t have a legal social security # most immigrants use illegal SS#’s so they can work and the taxes are still being taken from them even if the SS is not theirs. Now the government said that they don’t pay taxes? Come on people every single person that lives in the U.S pays taxes when you go buy a freaking candy you pay tax, when you get gas you pay tax, when you buy food you pay tax.
Like phatdoughnut said the employers pay half of what they would actually would pay a Anglo.
This country needs to wake up and analyze that this country has a lot of variety of people, race, and religion.

[deevergote]

People who have something against illegal immigrants are often uneducated. They hear "illegal" and immediately think that they are bad. They assume that they are here to steal jobs from "hard working American citizens"... when in reality, they're not doing anything of the sort. The only thing they are doing is taking the jobs those "hard working American citizens" don't want to do... at least for a salary that the American workers wouldn't even consider.


Think of it this way... if American citizens picked all the apples in the country, rather than illegals, how much do you think apples would cost? Do you think those Americans would settle for $5 an hour? No way! They would ask for $12 an hour... or $8 an hour... immagine that every apple orchard employed 100 full time workers, 40 hours a week each. That's 4000 hours a week. That's $32,000 a week for workers making $8 an hour, compared to $25,000 a week for $5 an hour. That's a $7,000 difference every week! Now think of all the apple orchards in the country. All paying $7,000 more a week for labor than they would with illegals. Would you pay $3 for a single apple just so we can have "hard working American citizens" doing all the work? Plus, once those American workers get in there, you can guarantee that unions will form. That means demands for higher salaries, insurance, vacation pay, significant overtime pay (and availibility)...

Now that's just a very small example. There are numerous industries that benefit from the dedication and low salary requirements of illegal immigrant workers. If we replace all those illegals with Americans, our cost of living will rise considerably!

Phatty has a point about the taxes too... we're already in the hole when it comes to government spending. Illegals are actually helping ease that situation (at least when the employers have them on the books... which I'm sure isn't all the time... or even most of the time).


There is mention about making things better for the illegal immigrants... like paying them more. However, it's a different situation. Somewhat, anyway. If they're willing to work for what we consider "low" pay (which, compared to what they could make in their home country, it's a good deal better) why not? I mean, I'd LOVE to work at McDonald's for $35 an hour... but that doesn't happen. Same with the jobs that the illegals get. Dishwashers can make up to $10 an hour where I'm from. That's pretty damn good for a dishwasher! You need no skills, no grasp on the English language, and no experience. They come here to do our crap work because it pays better than just about anything they can get at home. They deserve fair pay and fair treatment... no more, no less.

[Maple50175]

Yeah that reminds me I still owe a grand in tax's.

Fucking govt.

[elositocandela]

People who have something against illegal immigrants are often uneducated. They hear "illegal" and immediately think that they are bad. They assume that they are here to steal jobs from "hard working American citizens"... when in reality, they're not doing anything of the sort. The only thing they are doing is taking the jobs those "hard working American citizens" don't want to do... at least for a salary that the American workers wouldn't even consider.


Think of it this way... if American citizens picked all the apples in the country, rather than illegals, how much do you think apples would cost? Do you think those Americans would settle for $5 an hour? No way! They would ask for $12 an hour... or $8 an hour... immagine that every apple orchard employed 100 full time workers, 40 hours a week each. That's 4000 hours a week. That's $32,000 a week for workers making $8 an hour, compared to $25,000 a week for $5 an hour. That's a $7,000 difference every week! Now think of all the apple orchards in the country. All paying $7,000 more a week for labor than they would with illegals. Would you pay $3 for a single apple just so we can have "hard working American citizens" doing all the work? Plus, once those American workers get in there, you can guarantee that unions will form. That means demands for higher salaries, insurance, vacation pay, significant overtime pay (and availibility)...

Now that's just a very small example. There are numerous industries that benefit from the dedication and low salary requirements of illegal immigrant workers. If we replace all those illegals with Americans, our cost of living will rise considerably!

Phatty has a point about the taxes too... we're already in the hole when it comes to government spending. Illegals are actually helping ease that situation (at least when the employers have them on the books... which I'm sure isn't all the time... or even most of the time).


There is mention about making things better for the illegal immigrants... like paying them more. However, it's a different situation. Somewhat, anyway. If they're willing to work for what we consider "low" pay (which, compared to what they could make in their home country, it's a good deal better) why not? I mean, I'd LOVE to work at McDonald's for $35 an hour... but that doesn't happen. Same with the jobs that the illegals get. Dishwashers can make up to $10 an hour where I'm from. That's pretty damn good for a dishwasher! You need no skills, no grasp on the English language, and no experience. They come here to do our crap work because it pays better than just about anything they can get at home. They deserve fair pay and fair treatment... no more, no less.

your rock man, i like what you just said. could not said it better

[rickyduckworth]

i work around tons of illegal immigrants.......i can give you firsthand accounts of the good and bad:

1) it's a fucking myth that they work "cheap"...they may work for less, but i know the brickmasons, framers and painters who are illegally here (usually in 3 month stints once every year or two) bring home between $10-14 hour.......in 3 months, they can make enough money to support their whole extended family for 5-10 years, or live well for a year or two....they come here because they don't wanna work their asses off for nothing.....good move on their part.....99.9% of the time they work tax free because the employer and employee makes more that way......it's also illegal to keep an illegal immigrant on your records, so you're only setting yourself up for penalties and future red flags.....better to not ask........

2) since they ARE here for only about 3 months, they will work basically the whole time (over 80 hours a week, maybe more if their job will allow it)......the craftsmanship is a 4/10 from what i've seen, but the legal workers don't really do much better....the overall craftsmanship quality has gone way down.......now, a $260,000 house is put together no better than the cheapest of homes......you can't blame them for that.....but you also can't speak to most of them and make them understand that what they are doing or what they did is fucked up......i trim the interiors of houses and i have to make the framers look good, the finishers and i have to give the painters as little of a challenge as possible......the industry is a joke cranking out tons of money

3) they aren't really taking jobs because i promise you, most americans had rather draw a $250/wk unemployment check than bust their asses....i've been working about 55-60 hours/week and a lot of times, i'm all alone because my other 5 coworkers "are sick, need time off, can't make it, etc".....they're full of shit.....america is very lazy and the fact that well over half of america is overweight should tell you that...

4) they aren't held accountable for shit......my theory is that they KNOW they're here for a short time and are supposed to crank out as much as possible in that timeframe......they don't have to worry about job security, because even if they do work for a measley $9/hr, they're making great money compared to what they'd make in mexico......EVERYONE is aware of EVERYTHING that goes on and it's ignored because there is money to be made from it.....plenty of legal americans can benefit from illegals working........but here is a big problem with it:

if they steal a car and wreck it, they'll be ONLY deported for it....no other legal action whatsoever...the person who owns the car either has to have good insurance or is fucked unless they sue the proper authorities working the wreck......and when a situation occurs where damages have to be paid, then it comes from the proper authorities' own budget......for little towns, it's easier to let them run away and call it a mystery as to what happened......if they steal your car, wreck it and run away, you're completely fucked.......i saw it firsthand last spring.......2 guys stole a car, got drunk, wrecked doing 120mph (i witnessed it...they had almost hit me and pulled a gun on me and while i was following them trying to call in their tag number, they lost it) and the cops had to send them back without pressing any charges and told the owner there was nothing that could be done....a 2001 accord, totalled beyond repair, gone.......

they are good for the economy more than they are bad for it......without this as an option, mexico would have an even rougher time......it's not right but there is too much to lose by doing anyting legitimate about it........we all stole the land from the native americans anyway, so who gives a fuck

[phatdoughnut]

i work around tons of illegal immigrants.......i can give you firsthand accounts of the good and bad:

1) it's a fucking myth that they work "cheap"...they may work for less, but i know the brickmasons, framers and painters who are illegally here (usually in 3 month stints once every year or two) bring home between $10-14 hour.......in 3 months, they can make enough money to support their whole extended family for 5-10 years, or live well for a year or two....they come here because they don't wanna work their asses off for nothing.....good move on their part.....99.9% of the time they work tax free because the employer and employee makes more that way......it's also illegal to keep an illegal immigrant on your records, so you're only setting yourself up for penalties and future red flags.....better to not ask........

Construction is way different, contractors pay good money to people who do good work. and make them money out in the fields and at fast food restaturants its pretty much a set wage..

[rickyduckworth]

Construction is way different, contractors pay good money to people who do good work. and make them money out in the fields and at fast food restaturants its pretty much a set wage..

couldn't be farther from the truth......contractors wanna make money, whether legally or illegally, they wanna end up with money and quickly.....nowadays, "good work" is almost non-existent......you're comparing low paying jobs to this, but i know for a fact that those low paying jobs allow legal and illegal workers to take home the same...remember, if you're paying taxes on $10/hr you're not doing as good as the guy paying no taxes make $7.50/hr.....all the illegal workers care about is take home pay.....what they have to pay in taxes, or risk not paying, or whatever, means nothing because again, get busted and go back home......it's just not true that these guys work for a lot less.....all that matters is take home pay....these guys don't care about medical coverage, hours, benefits of any kind, because the bottom line is all that matters....and we HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THEM if they DO get seriously injured......if they tear an arm off, the hospital has to treat them and then they're deported.......they don't have it bad at all when all is said and done.....they have certain amounts of protection and these short stints make it all that much easier.....

if they get caught working for "under the table" wages, they get deported too......it's like a game where the worst isn't that bad......if they're deported 100 times, nothing more will come of it the next time they're deported...nothing to worry about once home, nothing to worry about here, why wouldn't they keep coming back...they make MILLIONS of dollars for mexico in this country, illegally

[elositocandela]

^^ Yes they did still the land from the native Americans and they also broke treaties they had made with them, plus they also broke the treaty of Guadalupe hidalgo. Of did the Anglos forget that? Everybody in this freaking world is fucked up, including some of my own people. But that does not mean everyone is like that, and I think that the ones that have made their taxes, have not committed a felony should be able to get their legal residence or even becoming a citizen.

[rickyduckworth]

Everybody in this freaking world is fucked up, including some of my own people. But that does not mean everyone is like that

you can't even agree with yourself so shhhhhh

and if they're here illegally, they have already broken the law.....why allow them to stay after they've broken the law? if you're gonna allow them, then fine, i don't care because i work hard and do a top-notch job, something i don't see from legal or illegal workers on a regular basis, but don't justify it......who cares if they haven't or have committed a felony, that doesn't mean they've not done anything wrong, just means they haven't forced someone to convict them of a felony......usually, if there isn't a lot of money involved or they haven't killed anyone who is a citizen here, they get deported.......an illegal stabbed an illegal here a couple of years ago, and was deported.......he has no record because of it but he killed another man because he was fucking his wife........no record does not equal "good person"

and when they are expected to show up like a normal person for long periods of time, pay taxes, etc, then they aren't gonna wanna be doing this....they're better off doing this illegally...more money to be made, no hassle

[verothacamaro]

On one hand I think they need to relax with the immigration toughness...it's a little ridiculous. On the other hand though if peeps come in illegally I don't see why they deserve any special rights. The real problem is with the people who are hiring the illegal immigrants...if the laws were tougher on them they wouldn't hire illegals and the whole problem would be solved...

I do think the gov't needs to ease up though. If they make it easier for peeps to come in legally and make it impossible for peeps to come in illegally they can screen out criminals and stuff. As it is now we're not safe at all.

Problem? what problem?

the Problem is American workers are lazy, uninspired, and worthless to corporations....


but hard working, producing, free labor....is awesome


Obviously the Argument is more ethics driven as opposed to the formal legality of the situation.


by law.....they are illegal, and shouldnt be here

ethically....how are you going to kick out part of the biggest minority in America?

Latins are more helpful to this economy in a whole, than we really think.