Advice needed! Career change. Going back to school. (much length. many words. wow.)

[deevergote]

It's been a long time since I posted something so personal, but I could really use some feedback. After talking to my family, my girlfriend, and my closest friends (some of whom would be better consulted once I get my thoughts in order... I know you're reading this, Mike ) I realized that the core CB7tuner group is comprised of people that I have a great deal of respect for... and who better to ask for additional input?

Anyway, I apologize if this is lengthy. I ask that you please read before giving feedback, since I'm going to do my best to illustrate where I've been, where I am currently, and where I hope to be in the near future. Everything above the double line is background stuff. Beyond that is what I'm genuinely looking for insight on.

First, where I've been:
I graduated from Rutgers in 2005 with a BA in Psychology, to add to my AS in Business from community college. My intention at the time was to become a Marriage and Family Therapist... for which I would need at least a Master's Degree. I got engaged shortly after graduating, and continued working as a waiter until I got married in 2006. The plan was for my wife to get a stable job, and for me to go to grad school.
Less than a month after getting married, I started a new job doing foreclosure investigations. Initially, it was supposed to be a supplemental income... a few hundred bucks for a day's work. It ended up getting busier as the housing market began to crash, and I bailed on being a waiter altogether. With the money I was making working just 2-3 days a week, I could afford (time and money) to go back to school. It was great.
My marriage ended a few months later. Not only was the emotional impact fairly severe, but I was also left with 2 mortgages, a car loan, and plenty of other bills. I buried myself in work. I found additional work as an inspector, and ended up working upwards of 120 hours a week at times. As the market crashed, business boomed. There were times when the money was VERY good.
What had started as a supplemental job intended to get me through grad school ended up being more than a full time job... and the money kept me at it. I realized that I wasn't doing anything to build a future, and that even if the work kept up, I certainly couldn't. Still, I plugged way, day in and day out. Comfortable and content. I was essentially self-employed. I had people to answer to, but only if I didn't meet my deadlines.
At that point, school was always a consideration, but always something for the future. My interest in becoming a therapist of any kind, or working in the mental health field at all, for that matter, has dwindled away to nothing over the years.


Where I am now:
Now, nearly 9 years after I started doing the foreclosure inspection work, I'm done. I'm through with the depressing work. I'm through with wearing a bulletproof vest every day. I'm through with the irregular paychecks, and unpredictable workload. I've logged nearly half a million miles on various cars (400,000 on the Fit alone)... and I'm done.
Now it's time for a career change. Or, rather, a career. Period. I am 35 years old, and I'm still trying to figure out what i want to be when I grow up.

I am engaged again (well, about to be... she bought a dress before I bought the ring... ) Thanks to the more profitable years of my foreclosure inspecting work, I have been able to pay off all major debts aside from my mortgage... and I've paid that down a great deal as well. The cost of living is cheap, and with someone to help me shoulder it, I can once again look into taking a step back in order to take a number of steps forward.

Those steps forward are where I could use some advice, insight, and feedback.


Where I want to be:
In the next 5 years, maximum, I want to be in a stable job. Daytime hours, vacation time, 401k, health insurance... I'm hoping to have a decent salary. I don't have lofty aspirations... I don't have any expectation or desire to own a 4,000 square foot home, or ever have any vehicle bearing a prancing horse in my driveway.

__________________________________________________ ________
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SO, here are my education/career options... at least as far as they've developed.

1) Paralegal.
Currently, I am enrolled in a 1 year ABA accredited paralegal certificate program for people that already hold a degree. It's an intense program. Paralegal jobs in my area are fairly numerous... even more so if I'm willing to work in Philadelphia. Pay can range from a measly $25,000/yr to a whopping $80,000/yr. Given my lack of experience (though my previous work WAS related to real estate law...) and my lack of desire to work at a high pressure firm in the city, I'm realistically looking at starting no higher than $35,000, and topping out no higher than $55,000. Not bad. Not great, but not bad.
The program I've enrolled in starts in 6 weeks. I'll be going to class during the day, 3 days a week... meaning I will be unable to hold a "normal" job as I'm there (so it's back to waiting tables...) It will cost about $5000 in total. I have until the first day of class (September 2nd) to withdraw, if I so choose.
The kicker is this: NJ doesn't require anything but a highschool diploma to be a paralegal. The certification I would receive from this class would be useful in other states, if we were to move in the future... but in NJ, it's useless. However, seeing as I have no experience or education as a paralegal, taking such a class for the educational value itself would be worthwhile, I feel. Of course, I would be entering a job market as someone with no experience... competing with people like my cousin, who spent years working her way up as a paralegal. People with experience, who started out making peanuts... but are now far more valuable to a firm than I would be.
While the idea of being a paralegal intrigues me, and the lower-stress positions (while not terribly profitable) will provide me with the schedule and regularity that I desire.

2) MBA.
On a whim, I decided to look into the cost of graduate degrees. I've come across MANY job openings that look for people holding an MBA. Seeing as my original major was business (I switched from the Rutgers School of Business to the regular University College, when I decided to pursue Psychology instead) it makes sense.
Money is limited, so obviously I'm not expecting to go to Harvard or Wharton. Online programs appeal to me the most, because I'd be able to work a normal job, while fitting my studies around it. The search for an affordable online MBA program led me to Amberton University. Specifically their MBA in Strategic Leadership (here, if you want to check it out.)
From what I've learned in researching the school over the past couple weeks, it seems that Amberton's online MBA program actually isn't too bad. It is regionally accredited, which is a very good thing. Not quite as good as national accreditation, but apparently that really only matters if I'd be interested in teaching business at the university level... which I'm not. Amberton is an actual brick and mortar non-profit school in Texas, rather than some online diploma mill.
No need for any sort of entrance exam (which is fortunate, because I took the GRE once... did well... grades expired... and now I have NO desire to do that again!) No need for an undergraduate degree in a related field (which is great, because psychology =/= business!)
Best of all, even if I have to take every prerequisite, bringing me to a total of 48 necessary credit hours... it will end up costing me only about $15,000.
HOWEVER, unlike the paralegal program, which will have me ripe for a job in the field in a year's time... the MBA program will take 2-3 years to complete. Maybe more, if the courseload forces me to go more slowly. And unlike the paralegal program, which grooms me for a specific position, the MBA is rather general. More prestigious, more valuable... but not geared to any one particular field, which will make a job search broader and more complicated.

Now, unlike most people I see asking online about starting salaries for MBA grads, I don't expect to wave my magical degree and find myself sitting happily in a $90,000/yr job. I fully understand that an MBA without real world experience isn't terribly useful. I would HOPE that having it would allow me to start somewhere in the high $40k or low $50k range, which would be lovely. At that point, I can start building experience and making myself more valuable. The average starting salary for first-year MBA grads is in the low $50k range.
Given that the online MBA program is extremely flexible and affordable, I can also afford to get my relevant work experience while I'm working on the degree. If I work for 3 years in some form of business-related field as I'm earning my degree, I'll be a decent candidate for a quality job upon completion (most jobs looking for MBA grads also want 3, 5, even 10 years "related experience". )

Right now, it's obvious that I'm leaning toward the MBA... but it's a lengthy commitment, which is intimidating.
Ideally, if I go for the MBA, I would be aiming for a position as an analyst/consultant, either improving existing business structures, or implementing new ones for emerging companies. That would combine both my business knowledge ANY my psychology training (I did excel at organizational/industrial psychology, after all...)

I COULD go for the paralegal certification, land a day job as a paralegal by this time next year, and then begin the MBA course... but $5000 and a full year of my life, just to start what may be a low-paying (and intentionally temporary) job... might be a waste of time and money.

Basically, I'm just hoping you guys (and ladies) will let me use you as a sounding board. Just to get this stuff out of my head and in front of my face, so I can assess my options more thoroughly.
I'd be grateful for any feedback. Especially if anyone has any experience with what I'm looking at.
-If you've been (or are) a paralegal, I'd love to hear from you.
-If you have an MBA, are working on one, or have researched getting one, I'd love to hear from you.
-If you or anyone you know has had any experience with Amberton University, especially their online programs, I'd love to hear from you.
-If you read all of this (thank you!) and you want to give me encouragement, advice, or simply tell me that I'm being an idiot... I'd love to hear from you.


tl;dr
Career change.
Going back to school for Paralegal Studies OR getting an MBA.
Need advice, insight, feedback.
I have six weeks to make up my mind.
Just read the damn novel I wrote above... I'm pouring my heart out here!

[TheFunk]

Nice to see you taking these steps and setting those goals. Pretty inspiring for people like me who are also trying to find a suitable career path rather than just a job to pay the bills.

My vote is to go for the MBE. You sound very well researched and it seems like the better option in the long run. It also sounds like you want the MBE more and doing what makes you happy is the most important part.

[deevergote]

That's largely because it's what I've been most interested in the past couple weeks... I've been researching it all day. Though there are analyst jobs like crazy in my area! Many that don't require the MBA, but it certainly couldn't hurt! Often an advanced degree is regarded as compensation for a lack of experience, which will certainly work in my favor.

It might be the wiser choice in the long run, though. My potential starting salary with the MBA is about what I could hope the salary ceiling would be as a paralegal.
I had considered law school as well... but the $75,000 cost, grueling 3 year commitment, and the fact that I'd be an established lawyer's bitch for the first few years makes that less than appealing!


I guess you would know a thing or two about making heavy decisions... you moved a hell of a long way from home recently!

[Turbo617]

may not be what you are looking for.
but what my good friend told me when i was allover the place between a few career choices he told me

" Don't look at what you can do tomorrow. don't look at it from a one year view.. look at it by looking at 5 years from now. "


Don't know many adults who have an MBA, so that would be an achievement for sure. ehh yeah you can do that one year course be done quick, make a decent salary competing with younger more eager people.

or gain that work experience while pursuing your MBA and have the upper hand and being set in the long run.

if someone offered you two choices, pick between giving you 1 Million dollars Cash or he will give you 1 dollar the first day and he always double it the next day. ( so day 1 is 1 dollar. day 2 is 2 dollar. day 3 is 4 dollars, day for is 8 dollars, etc)

which would you pick?
Pick option two.. aka pick the MBA

[TheFunk]

That's largely because it's what I've been most interested in the past couple weeks...

...

I guess you would know a thing or two about making heavy decisions... you moved a hell of a long way from home recently!

Well if it is still sounding good 6 weeks from now I say you should jump on it.

And yeah I did and it certainly was a heavy decision, but it has paid off as I finally feel like I'm moving forward with my life again which is a great feeling.
I'm sure you'll be feeling the same about your decision in time.

[deevergote]

may not be what you are looking for.
but what my good friend told me when i was allover the place between a few career choices he told me

" Don't look at what you can do tomorrow. don't look at it from a one year view.. look at it by looking at 5 years from now. "


Don't know many adults who have an MBA, so that would be an achievement for sure. ehh yeah you can do that one year course be done quick, make a decent salary competing with younger more eager people.

or gain that work experience while pursuing your MBA and have the upper hand and being set in the long run.

if someone offered you two choices, pick between giving you 1 Million dollars Cash or he will give you 1 dollar the first day and he always double it the next day. ( so day 1 is 1 dollar. day 2 is 2 dollar. day 3 is 4 dollars, day for is 8 dollars, etc)

which would you pick?
Pick option two.. aka pick the MBA

That probably is the best way to look at it. Even if I never end up making big money, the MBA is likely to be a much better use of my time and money.

Well if it is still sounding good 6 weeks from now I say you should jump on it.

And yeah I did and it certainly was a heavy decision, but it has paid off as I finally feel like I'm moving forward with my life again which is a great feeling.
I'm sure you'll be feeling the same about your decision in time.

At this point, I'm going to have to pay for the Paralegal classes in about 3 weeks (about $2000 for this semester, plus books... which are obscenely expensive!) I can get a full refund if I withdraw before classes start on the 2nd. Otherwise, I'm only getting half my money back... so if I pay and classes start, the decision has been made for me!
I figure I have until a few days before my tuition is due to truly decide.

[Davids92Accord]

I am a Personal Injury Paralegal and have been for the past 10 years. I currently work in a small law office with only 5 people running it(1 Attorney. 1 manager/Negotiator, 1 paralegal (Me), 1 assistant and 1 secretary). My yearly salary right now is a bit above $38,000 I know its not a lot for the time that I have been doing this work but when I first started working here I didn't know ANYTHING about this field, here's an example, my first day here I didn't even know how to send a fax and when I finally learned, I didn't know you had to attach a cover letter so my first fax cover letter was a post it stuck on a blank paper with the name of the person I was sending it to.

Getting your paralegal certificate will help you because it will teach you the basics of each field a paralegal is needed for and from there you can choose which one you would like. but since you have experience with real estate I would suggest you stay in that field as it will help you get in good with the attorney.The pay actually depends on how big of a firm you work for or how much money it generates so you can range from $24,000 up to $80,000 maybe even higher

I am currently at work right now so I cant go into very detail but if you have any questions ill be more than happy to answer.

[deevergote]

I am a Personal Injury Paralegal and have been for the past 10 years. I currently work in a small law office with only 5 people running it(1 Attorney. 1 manager/Negotiator, 1 paralegal (Me), 1 assistant and 1 secretary). My yearly salary right now is a bit above $38,000 I know its not a lot for the time that I have been doing this work but when I first started working here I didn't know ANYTHING about this field, here's an example, my first day here I didn't even know how to send a fax and when I finally learned, I didn't know you had to attach a cover letter so my first fax cover letter was a post it stuck on a blank paper with the name of the person I was sending it to.

Getting your paralegal certificate will help you because it will teach you the basics of each field a paralegal is needed for and from there you can choose which one you would like. but since you have experience with real estate I would suggest you stay in that field as it will help you get in good with the attorney.The pay actually depends on how big of a firm you work for or how much money it generates so you can range from $24,000 up to $80,000 maybe even higher

I am currently at work right now so I cant go into very detail but if you have any questions ill be more than happy to answer.

Awesome. Thanks! It's good to hear from someone with actual experience!

I have a potential in with a law firm that deals with foreclosures. Unlike one of my biggest former clients, they are actually in good shape (my biggest client just went belly-up.) They wanted to hire me to do basic paperwork processing, which would've been cake... but at $12/hr. Seemed like a good company, but that was too little per hour for a full time job. It would leave me little time to do much else! I've been in touch with the hiring manager regarding a paralegal position, and he said to contact him when I finished my certification. He said his girlfriend is currently doing a certification program as well... so if the girlfriend of a guy working at a NJ law firm is doing a certification program, there must be value to it, despite the lack of necessity for the actual certificate itself! I'd imagine if it was a waste of time, he'd have advised against her doing it!

I'll most likely hit you up with questions as they arise. I appreciate it!

[Davids92Accord]

I actually was accepted to the UCLA paralegal studies program here and usually they only accept people with associates degree but since I told them I currently work with an attorney they said all they needed was a letter of recommendation from him. sadly I ended up not going due to the fact I could not afford the $6,000 tuition, but instead went to work with another attorney for 6 months and am grateful of that because it was a lot more beneficial and I learned new skills working there.

Honestly you got both choices to look for. They are both winning situations the only difference is one is faster than the other.

[deevergote]

Since NJ doesn't require any sort of certification (I'm assuming CA doesn't either), I could honestly just do as you've done... Dive in cold, and work for the firm offering $12/hr (which may not keep the lights on...) and just work myself into a proper paralegal position.


I like the paralegal option because it's focused. I know that if I pursue that, I'm going to be a paralegal. I could work for a divorce firm, or a foreclosure firm, or for the government... but I'll be a paralegal, one way or another.

With the MBA, I have MANY options... and none are quite as clear. It leaves me open for greater growth, but it also brings a certain vagueness to finding a job initially. It leaves it up to me exactly what field I go into. That's intimidating.

[The G-Man]

As far as MBAs go I'm not really sure how easy it is to get a job from a random school.

Having said that, I have a friend, also military officer type, who is currently enrolled in the online MBA program at Liberty University (actual Baptist university in Lynchburg, VA). Liberty matches the DoD tuition assistance rate which is $250 credit hour/ not to exceed $4500 in fiscal year (1 Oct- 30 Sep). Which can't be what they actually charge, but it probably isn't much more. Also no entrance exams. But since it is baptist they do bring faith into some of their coursework, which I would not like to do.

[deevergote]

The school I'm looking at, Amberton University, is a nondenominational Christian school, but supposedly there are no religious undertones to their online coursework. Apparently there is a bit of it for anyone who studies on campus, but seeing as I'm not going to be travelling to Texas for school, I should be good! Regardless, I'll put up with some religious stuff if it means I get a decent and affordable education!

According to many people, if your MBA isn't from places like Harvard, Wharton, Kellogg, Stanford, etc... it's "worthless". Then again, those people are the ones that expect the degree to get you 6 figures right out the door, and eventually earn you a senior executive position at a Fortune 500 company.
My aspirations are a good deal lower, so I'm HOPING that the MBA from a regionally accredited program such as Amberton's will be useful. Not as useful as a well-known school, but I can't imagine it would be worthless.

At this point, I think it might be the direction I'm going.
My friend just told me of a job opening where he works, for which I have relevant experience. 8:30-4:30, with an hour lunch. County job, which is awesome. I'll be sending my resume this week. Sounds like a job that I could do well, while still having plenty of time and sanity to pursue the MBA. I might even be able to start classes this Fall!

[owequitit]

The school I'm looking at, Amberton University, is a nondenominational Christian school, but supposedly there are no religious undertones to their online coursework. Apparently there is a bit of it for anyone who studies on campus, but seeing as I'm not going to be travelling to Texas for school, I should be good! Regardless, I'll put up with some religious stuff if it means I get a decent and affordable education!

According to many people, if your MBA isn't from places like Harvard, Wharton, Kellogg, Stanford, etc... it's "worthless". Then again, those people are the ones that expect the degree to get you 6 figures right out the door, and eventually earn you a senior executive position at a Fortune 500 company.
My aspirations are a good deal lower, so I'm HOPING that the MBA from a regionally accredited program such as Amberton's will be useful. Not as useful as a well-known school, but I can't imagine it would be worthless.

At this point, I think it might be the direction I'm going.
My friend just told me of a job opening where he works, for which I have relevant experience. 8:30-4:30, with an hour lunch. County job, which is awesome. I'll be sending my resume this week. Sounds like a job that I could do well, while still having plenty of time and sanity to pursue the MBA. I might even be able to start classes this Fall!

I hate to be the one that says this, but a degree is only worth as much as you put into it.

Here is an example. Herbert Kelleher never went to business school. One of the most successful business people in history. I won't spill who he is, but you can read about him if you like. He was a lawyer who happened into a CEO job, but had the vision required to do what he wanted to do. He was fairly well credentialed on the legal side, but since the higher level degrees are so specialized, it doesn't necessarily set you up to be a good CEO if you go to Harvard Law. What DOES help with those places in the NETWORKING. However, you can network successfully without them.

Here are some things you need to consider with the MBA. First, it is one of the most common (if not THE most common) Master's degrees earned. That means your pool of candidates is very deep, and the pool of jobs isn't necessarily. Not saying don't do it, but you need to do some heavy research on average starting pay, average time to find employment, success of your particular program, etc. Getting it and completing the check box will help, but won't guarantee success in and of itself. The advantage is great flexibility and few limitation ons where it could lead. So if you have the initiative to pursue those endeavors, great, but based on previous conversation, it sounds like it might not be what you are wanting to do.

[deevergote]

Most of what brought getting the MBA to mind is what I was finding while browsing available jobs in my area. Many of those job openings were looking for someone with an MBA.
The average starting salary for a new MBA grad is a good deal higher than I hope to make, so I'm setting my sights low. If the average grad starts between 70k and 90k, I'll be fine starting around 50k. I don't expect I'll be at that level for very long, as my intention is to work my way up.

The lack of networking is definitely a downside to the online education option. I'm not even going to be meeting my professors, let alone fellow students or potential employers!

Still, I see it as another key on my keychain. I still have to find the right doors, but I'll have what I need once I find them. It's a tool, rather than a guarantee.
I'm looking into the job with the county, as it will be a good, stable option while pursuing the degree. If that doesn't pan out, I'm going for whatever I can find that is "business related" (which is damn near anything, really.) I have a lack of resume-worthy experience, since my self-employment history is not generally well-regarded by prospective employers. But even if I can get myself into retail management or bookkeeping for a few years while I'm earning the MBA, that will be relevant experience for many of the jobs I've been seeing advertised.
I still expect to start low, and I still expect to have to work my way up.



My job needs have changed a bit. I still want something stable, reliable, and during the daytime weekday hours... but I've reached the point where I may not be able to start there.

[s2cmpugh]

I hate to be the one that says this, but a degree is only worth as much as you put into it.

This right here needs to be emphasized to the fullest and it applies to any educational track you decide to follow.

I'll chime in because I just completed my MBA at Florida Gulf Coast University (FGCU) both online and on-campus after working in state government for seven years. I too was ready for a change and was 100% completely bored with what I was doing for the state so I decided to sell my house, move to FL with the GF and attend school. I started off working full-time down here and then began taking one class towards my MBA, just to test the waters to see if I really enjoyed it. My first class was an online class, and the first online class I had ever taken since receiving my BS in Finance years ago. It was a big change for me not seeing people in class and having the ability to ask questions face to face.

After that first class, I decided I enjoyed it and wanted to go ahead and go further to finish it up. I also decided to stop working full-time and focus on school 100%. That right there is what allowed me to get the most out of my education, I focused on what I wanted to do. It also allowed me to finish in two years, with a lower stress level, and a 4.0GPA, something I'm very proud of personally. If I was working and going to school full-time, there is no way this would happen; at least not without a nervous breakdown or a stroke. My classes were a mix of online and on-campus, and for me; I enjoyed the on-campus classes much much more than online. I felt as though I got more out of the class with face to face interactions. That being said, I like talking to people, working with people, and feel as though I learn easier with someone up in the front telling me what's going on.

I also began working part-time at the school as a grant research assistant. It started off with simple data entry and organization, but I've now learned what goes into conducting research, literature review, publishing, etc. The BEST part about this job was working with professors about academia, their back stories, and how "stupid" students can be sometimes. Doing this also sparked another interest in possibly going for my PhD so I could teach or conduct research in something I find interesting.

On to the MBA itself! INMHO, the MBA allows you become a well rounded business individual where you can think about many aspects in business analytically. Yes, the MBA's from Harvard, MIT, Wharton, etc. are worth more, but that does not mean MBA's from "average" school don't contribute to society, business, and personal growth. Your salary expectations about earning $40k - $50k are spot on with a MBA from an "average" school. I make a little above $50k and just graduated in May, but I also had previous work experience that relates to what I do.

One HUGE SKILL that a lot of people lack today is the ability to talk and communicate with people. Businesses don't mind teach people processes or specific skills for a task, but they can't and won't teach you how to communicate with others, listen, and analyze problems. You mentioned you waited tables before; so did I years ago, and I contribute this job to my ability to talk to anyone about anything. I've often been told by people I could sell ice Eskimos and talk to pretty much anyone, anywhere.

Man that was long. Feel free to ask me more questions about my MBA experience, or if you want/need help on assignments I'd be happy to provide guidance!