wow the domestic car scene is jumping.

[Xsjado]

You guys had the old Acura NSX priced at $90,000 I believe.
Here they cost $215,000 for the last type r incarnation of it.
Australian version came straight from japan with little to no differences that I'm aware of.

Honda spokesman have already stated that the version coming here will be around the $250,000 mark and know people will pay that much.
it's gonna be a v8 hybrid type deal I'm fairly sure.

I'm in Australia. don't know if the version you get will be manufactured there.
our dollars have similar values.

[deevergote]

NSX - 600+ HP TT V6 with e-SH-AWD in a package that is similar in size to the first gen NSX (should come in around 3300lbs).

Sub-NSX - derivative of NSX chassis without all of the exotic materials and construction to bring the cost down. Probably a different powertrain than NSX, but still in early development.

S2K replacement all being worked on at Honda, as well as very strong rumors of a Civic Type-R on the next gen USDM Civic chassis, as well as an RSX replacement and a turbo Civic Si.

Also, Acura confirms that SH-AWD will be available on all models by 2016, so expect the MMC ILX to feature AWD and either a version a of the TLX 4 cylinder, or perhaps a turbo version of Honda's new 4 cylinder.

They are also heavily adding DCT transmissions in the next couple years, but hopefully they won't get rid of all of the manuals.

Now THAT is good news! I've been saying that something slotted under the NSX (and hopefully under $80,000) would be a very wise addition to the lineup. We can all dream of certain halo cars, but most of us will never be able to afford one (and when we could, it would still be an expensive purchase... and the car will likely be very old, like the previous NSX.) Having something that still captures the essence of the high-end halo car, without the pricetag... that will be very attractive indeed.
I'd love to see this sub-NSX model be something truer to the original NSX. N/A MR V6 in a sleek, lightweight vehicle. Honestly, that would appeal to me much more than the upcoming NSX. I understand that the new NSX is packed with incredible technology, and the performance should be fantastic... but it doesn't excite me the way a simple car in the vein of the last NSX would.

S2000 replacement would be fantastic. I'm actually surprised Honda didn't follow that up immediately, since it was a rather successful car. Especially for a fairly expensive little sports car, from a brand that most people don't associate such a thing with! To the average car buyer, the Miata is a reasonable car to cross-shop, and the price was 10 grand less for the Miata. The BMW Z3 was a better competitor price-wise to the S2000 (the Z4 priced itself out of S2000 competition though.)

SH-AWD on all Acura models would be wonderful as well. Then I can look at an ILX and not grumble about it being a reskinned Civic!



It would be really cool if Acura could effectively pull an Audi. About a decade ago, Audi was regarded as a second-string German luxury brand. They trailed behind Mercedes-Benz and BMW, and were more frequently grouped in with other semi-lux Eurpoean makes, like Volvo and Saab. Then Audi released the R8 as an affordable halo car, and stepped up the design and performance of their entire line. They went from barely being noticed, to the new "it" car... and now Audi seems to be dominating every magazine comparison.
Acura has never really been considered as "luxury" as Lexus (the Mercedes-Benz of the Japanese luxury brands), and Infiniti made a decent name for themselves with the G35/G37 (I see Infiniti as the BMW of the Japanese brands... the sportier brand.) However, right now, Infiniti seems to have dropped the ball. Their naming conventions have changed to the point of confusing customers, and their sleek styling has progressed to the point of blobbiness. Lexus is just plain confused. They're trying to shrug off the frumpy, boring image they cultivated since the beginning... but in doing so, buyers don't know what to expect. Grandpa doesn't want to drive an angular space ship, and Junior doesn't want to drive an automatic boat... no matter how sporty it looks!
So if Acura steps it up, they could easily climb to the top. Acura's approach to auto-building is very similar to Audi's as well. Originally a brand that was very FWD-biased, now going to exclusive AWD models... with an AWD setup that has been hailed time and time again as being a fantastic design.

Maybe my next car will be an ILX-S, rather than an S4.





ANYWAY, back on the original topic... which I have thus far neglected in this rant... I agree than the US automakers are FINALLY getting it. The horsepower wars are still in full swing, to the point of absurdity. As the owner of a car with 400hp, I can tell you quite honestly that the average driver won't have ANY use for 700hp! It's difficult to fully utilize 400hp on public roads without severely breaking the law in a few short seconds. Using that much power uses a proportionally large amount of fuel, as well... and with prices still fairly high, the average owner of new American muscle probably won't be flooring that gas pedal quite as often as he'd like.
Don't get me wrong... I think 707hp from the Hellcat (and whatever GM and Ford decide to do to counter it) is truly awesome. I'd love to drive one of those cars... but I know I'm never really going to be able to make use of that power! Hell, it's probably difficult to use all that power on a track with just the stock tires and suspension! Back when I first got into cars, 700hp was considered a serious, dedicated drag build. You had to put lots of time and money into making that happen, and only the most foolish would actually drive such a beast on the street. Now, you can walk into a dealership and drive a conventional non-exotic factory-stock car off the lot with that much power.

The US automakers are doing it right across the board, too. Ford made the Mustang handle, and they released the Focus ST, which proves that the Americans can TOTALLY do the hot hatch thing. Dodge is going to be releasing a 300hp AWD Dart that will give the STi a run for its money (and conveniently replace the deceased Evo.)
GM seems more concerned with hitting the Germans where it hurts, as anything that isn't directly competing with the muscle coming from Ford and Chrysler is aimed squarely at the German "Big 3" via Cadillac. Cadillac finally has its sights rightfully set on the 3 series with the ATS (and the ATS-V is hopefully going to give the M3 a run for its money... good thing for Cadillac that the M3 is a bit sad this time around.) The CTS and CTS-V have the 5 series and E class covered in terms of style and performance (quality is yet to be seen.) If they can nail the 7 Series, S Class, and A/S8 with their upcoming flagship, and maybe give some consideration to a new XLR replacement, Cadillac might just do it.

I like where the Americans are going with their cars. Fiat hasn't ruined Chrysler (yet), GM is promising (if they can survive the torrent of recalls), and Ford is making quality vehicles (though they have absolutely KILLED Lincoln...)
I'm hopeful. To really succeed, they're going to have to focus on reliability... I'm not so confident they're going to pull that off.

[h22sparkle]

The dodge srt4 aka Thea the dart literally replaced all other vehicles of that calibur like the neon and the caliber. That dart is going to be a force to be reckoned with and pray they don't come out with staged kits like they have. Then even if they don't that won't even matter because another developer will and market that if the SRT division won't.

[deevergote]

The Dart is poised to take on the STi, which is impressive. The Caliber SRT4 (the turd that it was) made something like 280hp. The Dart had three options... make the same power (which really is too much for FWD), make less power, or go AWD and make MORE power. It's nice to see they chose the third option. Let's just hope it performs well, and doesn't price itself out of the market. The Dart SRT is going to have to be at least $5000 cheaper than the STi to even have a prayer.

[h22sparkle]

Deevergote you have to remember you have the option when it comes to power. You may not need all of it for the street but at least its there that way you don't need to constantly upgrade it and the cars exhaust notes changes with its variable throttle e-cutout.

This application tones things down a bit so you don't get harassed by the authorities if they are strict. You can tone down the power to 500 or bring it down to 300 for valet mode which I think is still too much and they disabled the burnouts in first year so none of that nonsense. Put it in second trying to burnout and the car will stall out.

[h22sparkle]

The Dart is poised to take on the STi, which is impressive. The Caliber SRT4 (the turd that it was) made something like 280hp. The Dart had three options... make the same power (which really is too much for FWD), make less power, or go AWD and make MORE power. It's nice to see they chose the third option. Let's just hope it performs well, and doesn't price itself out of the market. The Dart SRT is going to have to be at least $5000 cheaper than the STi to even have a prayer.

Everyone will just do it for the name. But once folks see the price on it they'll look at the Dart SRT more than likely. I'll still have my hand in on the SRT just for the cornering. The real crazy thing to watch out for is when the police get the chargers and the challenger hellcats.

I doubt if they'll get the scatpack but don't quote me on that though mnnn. They'll prolly pop up on you before you even suspect that they are there.

[deevergote]

I doubt law enforcement will get the 707hp engine. There's no need for it. It would require far too much maintenance, and it's so much power that the cars would be a danger to the officers and to the public. The basic Hemi isn't going to go anywhere. The higher powered police cars will continue using the standard V8s. Most can get away with just the V6s at this point, since everyone's V6 is making around 300hp. The old Crown Vics were only making like 230hp or something!

The STi has the prestige and the reputation. People know what it's capable of.
Dodge, on the other hand, is the new kid on the block in that market. For the Dart SRT to compete directly with the STi, it's going to need to offer the same performance for a lower price.
When the Neon SRT4 came out, the Neon itself was a laughable machine. Dodge managed to build a respectable vehicle on a platform that nobody really took seriously. The Neon SRT4 was a success, and is still admired by anyone that isn't blinded by "domestic cars suck!" bro mentality. They dropped the ball with the Caliber, though. They had nice momentum going with the Neon, and then they squeezed out that minivan-looking turd. The SRT4 model looked like a constipated boar (which has some appeal, I suppose...) but the car itself was worthless. Ugly, fairly heavy (200lbs heavier than the Neon SRT4), tall, a so-so suspension design, and WAY too much power for the average driver to really appreciate, even with LSD.
Now, the brand has to try to overcome the failure of the Caliber with a return to a Neon-shaped car... only instead of just making another Neon SRT4, they're breaking out the big guns. AWD and 300hp will make for a mean machine if they can pull it off. It will have to handle (AWD performance vehicles are something new to the brand... any previous AWD performance models were built using borrowed Mitsubishi technology.) Subaru has the jump on them. If that's the market they're going to be competing in, they have tough competition. The ONLY thing that is going to give them a fighting chance is if the price is low enough for people to choose the Dodge over the Subaru.

[owequitit]

Cops very rarely need that much HP. Good luck outrunning a radio, and you sure as hell aren't going to outrun a helicopter.

The only domestic cars that really interests me on the high end right now are ironically both GM's. The Vette, and the CTS V-Sport. I like the Caddy because it looks good, seems to be well made, and has plenty of power, but isn't over the top ridiculous.

The Vette, well its a Vette. I was huge C6 fan, and I didn't think I would like the C7's styling, but in person it looks bad ass. However, as the cost no object car I lust after right now? I am really liking the Jaguar F-Type Coupe. That thing is sexy as hell (I would argue one of the best looking cars ever) and with the 550HP supercharged V8 has plenty of go and sounds ridiculous.

As for NSX, we will see, but I think I would rather have a used NA2 than the new one. The second prototype sounds a LOT better than the one that burned down a few months ago, but it still doesn't sound as good as the original. I blame the turbos.

[owequitit]

You guys had the old Acura NSX priced at $90,000 I believe.
Here they cost $215,000 for the last type r incarnation of it.
Australian version came straight from japan with little to no differences that I'm aware of.

Honda spokesman have already stated that the version coming here will be around the $250,000 mark and know people will pay that much.
it's gonna be a v8 hybrid type deal I'm fairly sure.

I'm in Australia. don't know if the version you get will be manufactured there.
our dollars have similar values.

TT 3.5L V6 with room to grow.

[h22sparkle]

I doubt law enforcement will get the 707hp engine. There's no need for it. It would require far too much maintenance, and it's so much power that the cars would be a danger to the officers and to the public. The basic Hemi isn't going to go anywhere. The higher powered police cars will continue using the standard V8s. Most can get away with just the V6s at this point, since everyone's V6 is making around 300hp. The old Crown Vics were only making like 230hp or something!

The STi has the prestige and the reputation. People know what it's capable of.
Dodge, on the other hand, is the new kid on the block in that market. For the Dart SRT to compete directly with the STi, it's going to need to offer the same performance for a lower price.
When the Neon SRT4 came out, the Neon itself was a laughable machine. Dodge managed to build a respectable vehicle on a platform that nobody really took seriously. The Neon SRT4 was a success, and is still admired by anyone that isn't blinded by "domestic cars suck!" bro mentality. They dropped the ball with the Caliber, though. They had nice momentum going with the Neon, and then they squeezed out that minivan-looking turd. The SRT4 model looked like a constipated boar (which has some appeal, I suppose...) but the car itself was worthless. Ugly, fairly heavy (200lbs heavier than the Neon SRT4), tall, a so-so suspension design, and WAY too much power for the average driver to really appreciate, even with LSD.
Now, the brand has to try to overcome the failure of the Caliber with a return to a Neon-shaped car... only instead of just making another Neon SRT4, they're breaking out the big guns. AWD and 300hp will make for a mean machine if they can pull it off. It will have to handle (AWD performance vehicles are something new to the brand... any previous AWD performance models were built using borrowed Mitsubishi technology.) Subaru has the jump on them. If that's the market they're going to be competing in, they have tough competition. The ONLY thing that is going to give them a fighting chance is if the price is low enough for people to choose the Dodge over the Subaru.

Lol@ constipated boar on the caliber this is true. With the neon SRT4 it took one step forward with the caliber 5 steps back. The SRT hellcat though if they did get it they'll probably truly either tune down the power or give them the scatpack.

As for the crownvics the highway patrol version has a chip which takes off that power governor giving it a good bump in power from 230 to 270 if its on a healthy motor. The dodge charger took over but since ford has taken a step back and decided to pull through with a boosted v6 with fuel economy assurance. Its definitely going to catch the eye of certain agencies to save money.

[h22sparkle]

Cops very rarely need that much HP. Good luck outrunning a radio, and you sure as hell aren't going to outrun a helicopter.

The only domestic cars that really interests me on the high end right now are ironically both GM's. The Vette, and the CTS V-Sport. I like the Caddy because it looks good, seems to be well made, and has plenty of power, but isn't over the top ridiculous.

The Vette, well its a Vette. I was huge C6 fan, and I didn't think I would like the C7's styling, but in person it looks bad ass. However, as the cost no object car I lust after right now? I am really liking the Jaguar F-Type Coupe. That thing is sexy as hell (I would argue one of the best looking cars ever) and with the 550HP supercharged V8 has plenty of go and sounds ridiculous.

As for NSX, we will see, but I think I would rather have a used NA2 than the new one. The second prototype sounds a LOT better than the one that burned down a few months ago, but it still doesn't sound as good as the original. I blame the turbos.

Notice how the new vette and viper almost look the same. The Bette can handle the viper and is an all around balanced machine. A lot of people don't respect the vette its definitely the under-dog in alott of fights to a certain degree. As for the caddy you gotta leave that up to the pimps.

The ctsv was never a problem just the electronics. As for that nsx it couldn't have been the turbo it was more likely they didn't have the wiring covered or used the wrong guage hence the heat burning shit up.

I bet when they checked everything over I know they were either back to the drawing board or more concerned on what kind of material to use next time to keep the cooling down. Probably a gold plate but that would only give people more of a reason to break in your car.

[deevergote]

Don't forget that the new NSX is a hybrid... so there were LOTS of brand new electronics in that thing. Plenty of things to burn up when pushed to the limit on a test track. People talk as if it's a bad thing, though. That's how you learn! As long as they figure out all the serious issues BEFORE releasing it to the public, all is good.
The new NSX will no doubt be an incredible car, but I do hope Honda manages to release something else to recapture the naturally-aspirated purity of the original.
Maybe even something to compete with the Alfa Romeo 4C.

The Corvette has always been regarded as brutish and unrefined by Europeans. The C7 has changed many opinions on that, I've read. Apparently the European reviewers have nothing but glowing reviews for the beast.

Chrysler made one mistake with the whole Hellcat thing... they made their budget sports car more powerful than their halo car. The new Viper was HUGE news when it was first announced. Then people got a whiff of 707hp, and forgot all about the 650hp V10. I haven't heard much about the new Viper since the Hellcat was announced.
Granted, they're definitely going to sell more Hellcat Challengers than they are Vipers, and the profit is probably considerably higher. Still... the Viper seems to have been forgotten. It doesn't help that the public was allowed to forget it for a few years to begin with, and then when it resurfaced it came under the new "SRT" branding, rather than simple Dodge (I know this was for EPA reasons... a certain percentage of vehicles in the line have to reach a certain minimum MPG by a specified year... they did this by removing trucks and sports cars from the Dodge lineup!)

[sonikaccord]

The new NSX had an inverter fire I believe. Needs more cooling and tuning like h22sparkle said. The RLX is probably going to be the closest you get to the NSXs powertrain for a while.

The Fiesta ST is one of the more interesting domestic cars to me. I was browsing the ST forums and a lot of Fiesta ST owners are Honda converts. They say it's more fun than the new Si, faster, handles better, etc. I'm sure Ford left torque on the table left to be unlocked so there is your tuning potential.

The Japanese imports have a different focus (no pun intended). They don't have true sport variants of their models. excluding the Si. The SE-R lines are dead, Toyota...ha, Of course there is still the Evo's and STi's of the world.

The Germans have been pretty consistent as they still have ///M, AMG, GTi, S's etc.

The Koreans...well K900, Genesis R-Spec, turbo models.

The Americans have good ole V8s like always AND turbo 4/6 models to compete with the imports...

[owequitit]

Notice how the new vette and viper almost look the same. The Bette can handle the viper and is an all around balanced machine. A lot of people don't respect the vette its definitely the under-dog in alott of fights to a certain degree. As for the caddy you gotta leave that up to the pimps.

The ctsv was never a problem just the electronics. As for that nsx it couldn't have been the turbo it was more likely they didn't have the wiring covered or used the wrong guage hence the heat burning shit up.

I bet when they checked everything over I know they were either back to the drawing board or more concerned on what kind of material to use next time to keep the cooling down. Probably a gold plate but that would only give people more of a reason to break in your car.

I was saying the turbos are why it doesn't sound as good, not why it burned down, but I can see how that could be interpreted from my statement.

I think the fire was caused by an oil or fuel line that opened somehow. And yes, it was too hot. They added more cooling airflow on the new prototype. You can see more vents in the hood/etc.

And Caddies aren't just for pimps anymore!

[owequitit]

The new NSX had an inverter fire I believe. Needs more cooling and tuning like h22sparkle said. The RLX is probably going to be the closest you get to the NSXs powertrain for a while.

The Fiesta ST is one of the more interesting domestic cars to me. I was browsing the ST forums and a lot of Fiesta ST owners are Honda converts. They say it's more fun than the new Si, faster, handles better, etc. I'm sure Ford left torque on the table left to be unlocked so there is your tuning potential.

The Japanese imports have a different focus (no pun intended). They don't have true sport variants of their models. excluding the Si. The SE-R lines are dead, Toyota...ha, Of course there is still the Evo's and STi's of the world.

The Germans have been pretty consistent as they still have ///M, AMG, GTi, S's etc.

The Koreans...well K900, Genesis R-Spec, turbo models.

The Americans have good ole V8s like always AND turbo 4/6 models to compete with the imports...

I simply can't abide a twist beam rear axle. Won't do it. I thought about them for a second, but decided if I were to buy a new car, there would be other choices. Of course, short of a new Accord V6 6MT, I am not sure my next car would be a Honda anyway, and there aren't really any Acuras at the moment that interest me, because I don't want an auto SH-AWD TLX (I would be all over a manual version), and the I4 doesn't do it for me.

As for the new Si, I drove a 2012 and didn't like it, but the 2013 and newer are supposedly much improved. However, that is mainly why I decided to keep my '09 Si, even though I had originally intended to trade it in on a new Si. I don't know that the Fiesta is much faster in stock form as every tested ET and trap speed I have seen is virtually identical. However, I would agree that there is more headroom for tuning in the Fiesta, because frankly, Honda neutered the K series, and it is always easier to just turn the boost up.