Controversial discussion... please keep it mature!

[deevergote]

It's understandable for the parents to be concerned... but it's also a sign of their ignorance. Sure, they know no better... but it's not doing them any good. Either their daughter is ***, or she's not. Nobody is going to make her that way. If it's a rebellious phase, the BEST thing they could do is not get upset about it... as crossing your parents is the sole purpose of rebellion!

Chances are slim that the parents will be charged with anything. Unless, of course, people decide to start making a fuss over it.
I mean, basically... they're asserting that Kate molested their child. They are accusing her of statutory rape, which is molestation. It is child abuse. From all I can gather, the parents were well aware of the relationship for quite some time BEFORE Kate turned 18. They certainly disapproved, but they did not stop it. What measures did they take to try to stop it? As parents of a 14/15 year old girl, they are responsible for the guidance and safety of their child... so if they accuse and convict Kate of molestation, they're also admitting that they did not prevent it from happening. If they simply were unable, they that is an example of unfit parenting. If they intentionally allowed it to continue until Kate turned 18, then they must admit to purposely using their 15 year old daughter as bait. That, in itself, is abuse. IMO, far greater abuse than Kate's offense.

I would LOVE to see one of those petitions go up against the parents.

[owequitit]

I don't want to ban anyone, so I'll preface this discussion with this warning. PLEASE keep your comments mature, and keep yourself from getting angry. People are going to disagree with you. Discuss your point of view calmly, as a mature adult... or please don't continue with the discussion at all.

I got into this discussion on my friend's Facebook wall, and I think I may have pissed off some of his friends. I knew it would happen, as most of his friends are of a similar "type" (basically, hipsters...) I really don't care, but I don't want it to get heated on here. Let's see if we can have a mature discussion without drama!


Anyway, the source of the discussion was this:

The link is a petition to help an 18 year old lesbian girl who is being charged with statutory rape by her 15 year old girlfriend's parents. The relationship had gone on for about a year (making the girlfriend 14, and the girl in question 17... still a minor.)
This occurred in Florida, which has an age of consent of 18 years old. They supposedly have what was referred to as a "Romeo and Juliet clause" that makes relationships legal between a 16 or 17 year old minor and an adult up to the age of 24 (not sure how this differs from the age of consent... but regardless, it does not apply to the 15 year old girlfriend.)

The parents of the 15 year old disapproved of the relationship, and accused the 18 year old (Kate) of "making their daughter ***." Once Kate turned 18, they pressed charges. Kate faces up to 15 years in jail, and will be labeled as a sex offender for the rest of her life.
Pretty hefty stuff.


Now, my friend and all his hipster pals are saying that this girl should not be charged. That it was a consensual relationship, and that it's only an issue because the parents are absolute bigots.



Personally, I disagree.
I agree that the parents are bigots, and I'm not cool with that.
I DO think it was pretty lousy of them to wait until Kate was 18 to hit her with something that carries such a severe penalty.
BUT, as a legal adult, Kate DID break the law. I feel she should be subject to the same punishment any other 18 year old adult would be facing if they were caught in a sexual relationship with a 15 year old child.
In my mind, any ruling that says Kate is not responsible as an adult in this situation would be to declare 2 things (setting a legal precedent)... that a 15 year old is capable of entering into a mature adult relationship (or that an 18 year old is still too emotionally immature to do so), AND that "lesbian sex is not real sex" (setting the equality efforts of the *** community back about 20 years.)



Your thoughts?
Please keep your responses mature. Feel free to disagree with me, or your fellow members, but don't let it get out of hand.
If your first response is "she should go to jail because homosexuality is wrong", then this is not the discussion for you. Please refrain from posting, because that is not what this is about.

I know I'm the one posting this thread, and I know the risk I am taking making it an open OT discussion... but I will not hesitate to ban if you take things too far. This is your warning. Please keep the discussion mature and respectful.

They want sexual equality right?

Well, here it is.

If an 18 year old boy had slept with an 18 year old girl and her parents called the cops, they would have the same outcome. Same if it were an older girl sleeping with a boy.

Without straying too far from the topic, this is a major problem I have in general with the "diversity" crowd. By and large, they want equality only when it suits them. The whole American idiom on the concept of "diversity" is bullshit anyway.

The cold hard fact of the matter is that the law should not discriminate, and it appears that it isn't.

[toycar]

They want sexual equality right?

Well, here it is.

If an 18 year old boy had slept with an 18 year old girl and her parents called the cops, they would have the same outcome. Same if it were an older girl sleeping with a boy.

Without straying too far from the topic, this is a major problem I have in general with the "diversity" crowd. By and large, they want equality only when it suits them. The whole American idiom on the concept of "diversity" is bullshit anyway.

The cold hard fact of the matter is that the law should not discriminate, and it appears that it isn't.

What do you think about the parents and their role in the situation?

[toycar]

And by Justins numbers, would suggest that-

Out of 100% *** population...

the majority were burned by asshole guys

the rest were prison bitches...

and the small % were born like that....

That's just silly.

You are silly man.



What I was trying to say was that there are a lot of reasonable examples of other ways it happens too. Maybe 80 % born that way / 20% not, or something.


Taking me all wrong here. Im not attacking the idea that people are born that way, and that a lot of the time that IS the explanation.


I am attacking the notion that the one size fits all answer that everyone with a sexual preference was driven to that preference genetically ONLY. Its the ONLY and ONE SIZE FITS ALL ANSWER part that I don't agree with. There are plenty of explanations, plenty of good reasonable explanations that should be acceptable as well. I guess what I am saying is that people can make a decision to be *** too, and I have offered plenty of examples of why that happens.

Even if that statement only applies to 5% of *** people, thats still a couple million people-so there are LOTS OF REASONS that they chose to be that way. Millions of people living in any sort of unified lifestyle, for any sort of reason have an impact on society. Some people understandably choose to be ***. It does happen. Its worth pointing out that circumstance CAN lead someone to that choice in life too.


Thats all I was getting at broski! Its not always "Because I was born that way" and that in itself is a flawed answer and theory because no one answer applies to every situation. People have to stop advocating on that specific "fact" or more and more people will continue to challenge it.


You see what I am saying here? The point of equal rights is to resolve with equal rights-not some controversial topic of segragation which is what is happening to the same sex community. I am not the only person that questions that specific "fact" and people have a right to an opinion. Here you are getting upset like I am being a dick and refuse to accept modern understandings of stuff, and yet I gave PLENTY of reasonable examples of how this happens unnaturally in society.


Its all about choice right? Its all about right isn't it? People want to argue some shit about "I have no choice I was born this way-change your forever beliefs and accept us" well to me that is a pretty bold statement. I personally have questioned it most of my life and through experience come to the personal conclusion that some people really are that way, and others choose to be that way.


They (in my opinion) should not all be categorically viewed as the same. Sure, equal rights. Gotcha. Blanket policy for understanding the way we should all integrate and be around eachother? Nah, I think I deserve a better understanding of the situation than that.


Sorry for the rant fella's



***Edit***



And seriously guys, Im not trying to be a dick. I just didn't feel like I have explained myself well enough or something. I realize it is a sensitive topic, so I felt a more elaborate explanation was due in the event I may have offended someone.


If I did, I am sorry. Not my intention at all.

[Ralphie]

Na it's cool.

Keep this on topic.

And I got what you're saying Justin, just needed it to be explained is all.

[toycar]

Na it's cool.

Keep this on topic.

And I got what you're saying Justin, just needed it to be explained is all.

Right on




So about those parents...




The crimes that come to mind like conspiracy to commit a felony, endangering the welfare of a minor, child abuse, willful endangerment etc etc all describe the parents behavior by definition.





Copied and pasted definition of conspiracy;
706.1 CONSPIRACY.
1. A person commits conspiracy with another if, with the intent
to promote or facilitate the commission of a crime which is an
aggravated misdemeanor or felony, the person does either of the
following:
a. Agrees with another that they or one or more of them will
engage in conduct constituting the crime or an attempt or
solicitation to commit the crime.
b. Agrees to aid another in the planning or commission of the
crime or of an attempt or solicitation to commit the crime.
2. It is not necessary for the conspirator to know the identity
of each and every conspirator.
3. A person shall not be convicted of conspiracy unless it is
alleged and proven that at least one conspirator committed an overt
act evidencing a design to accomplish the purpose of the conspiracy
by criminal means.
4. A person shall not be convicted of conspiracy if the only
other person or persons involved in the conspiracy were acting at the
behest of or as agents of a law enforcement agency in an
investigation of the criminal activity alleged at the time of the
formation of the conspiracy.




Seems like the parents conspired to let the older girl commit a felony. Call me crazy, seems like it applies.



The act they conspired to commit was willful blindness. That would be similar to knowing that someone was going to rob the gas station before it happened, and then do nothing about it allowing it to happen.

If the police find out you expressed willful blindness you can be charged as a co-conspirator.

So, I think the parents should be considered co-conspirators of the "rape" I guess since they allowed it to happen, knowing it was a crime and chose not to do anything about it until it was convenient for them. If they ever observed excessive pda or caught them in the act, it would be even worse.

Over the course of YEARS of the relationship, it just seems like they had to of turned a blind eye enough to be liable. Mothers have gone to prison for turning a blind eye to a sexually abusive husband, that has happened so I don't really see what the big difference here is.


Just like knowingly allowing your kids to skip school is a crime, letting your kids get hammered underage is a crime, turning a blind eye isn't legal in a lot of circumstances. This should be one of them.

[Ralphie]

Nah there is no way to prove that they "allowed" her to continue.

They can easily say, under oath, that they argued and fought with her for years about it and she didn't listen.

As long as their character is in good standing, then why would anyone doubt them?

It could be argued that they tried to stop it and when they realized their child would not listen, and the girl was old enough to do time, they contacted the apropriate authorities.

[LadyG]

That is not true Ralphie.
You as a parent, have recourse for out of control kids. You can: Speak to the other kids parents (Did THAT even happen here?)
You can send them to the local juvenile detention center, you can send them to military school. You can send them to private school in another state...
I could think of more "creative" ways of "controlling" various behaviors...
but I'll stop there.

The point is, while legally under your responsibility, your kids are almost like property. They could have done something. They should have.

As I said before, this case is only partly about Katie- where were the REAL fuckin adults??? That's what I wanna know!

[Ralphie]

That is all true, but again.......do you know what they tried?

I don't.

I agree they are 100% responsible for their kids, but before we jump to conclusions, we can assume that MAYBE, hopefully, they tried to at least talk sense into her, or go to church something...

sending your child away is pretty harsh and a last resort.

It can be done, but I think few parents would choose that route.

[LadyG]

Idk, Ive told my boys- if they f*up bad enough, they'll go. somewhere.
Somewhere away, if that's what it takes. Its my job to ensure they know their actions have consequences, before the consequences are the "forever kind".

Your right, we don't know.
But, I can't imagine that if the other girls' parents, went to Kate's Mom and said, "We don't want them seeing each other- and if it continues- when Kate turns 18 we WILL end it" and Kate's mom was like, "f* them Katie, honey, you do you."

What were the parents DOING while this was going on??

[phatdoughnut]

Everyone seems to be on the same page...

Btw this is Kate.

I'd probably hit it.

[uslspct]

^^^^^Hah! Thread should be closed after that statement...and I second that^^^^^
She's probably not yag. I'll stick with my opinion that there are no hot lesbians until I meet one.

Jesus fing Christ I don't come on here for 2 days and the thread is already 100% longer...

We should start a campaign to prosecute the parents....

Parenting in general has gone down the toilet because people today are careless in their choices and look to blame everyone but themselves.

They also get all defensive when you try to offer advice, as if they're the best parent's ever lol.

Parenting is a priveledge not a right.

Best post of the thread. If someone irresponsible brings children into this world it ends up affecting us all and there's really no punishment for crappy parenting. And there's too many people being born. But there's too many laws as well. The law we're discussing is deeply flawed. And what's with the BS of sexual crimes being the only type you can NEVER shake from your record. I thought when someone did their time, they were allowed to move on. This sexual predator stuff is nonsense. Execute the rapists and true pedophiles that will never change(because they can't), and in situations like this there should be no law or punishment. Make the age gaps bigger and age of consent lower and let judges and juries do their job on the not so clear cut cases.

I'm with most that being yag is a 9X% born attribute of humans. If you "find" out later you were yag, then you always were. Transport the people who supposedly switched sexuality midlife, to another century with different and "normal" circumstances in their life, and their sexual preference would never have changed. I believe bisexual people are just open horny people. If forced to choose a sex to settle down with, they would. And it's sexuality AND a connection to another person that makes one one or the other.

[deevergote]

I'd probably hit it.

She IS legal now... but she doesn't want what you have to offer.

[phatdoughnut]

She IS legal now... but she doesn't want what you have to offer.

No means yes. jk

O wells, she will find a happy lesbian someday.

Whats our next topic? I like these.

[deevergote]

The tinfoil hat topic that appeared yesterday had to be axed before I banned anyone. Politics, religion, and conspiracy theory all wrapped into one. In other words... a disaster waiting to happen.

This thread gave me hope. That one took it away. We've grown up around here, but perhaps not THAT much yet!