Video surfaces of people dying from chemical weapons attack

[90EX]

Poor lady probably died from the medical assistance. Home boy was hyperventilating her stomach. eek

[toycar]

Normally Id be all for world protection.

Saddam did the same thing. We went in and removed him.

11 years later and how did it turn out? I guess it depends on who you ask, but we can't afford another 11 years in Syria.

The real downfall of this country(besides our laziness and stupidity) will be other countries reliance on us to do their bidding. We're sending money out at a ridiculous pace.

Same could've been said over and over about US involvement in other countries historically. We were dealing with the great depression when Hitler invaded Poland. Probably pretty important that we did something about that right? This hasn't gotten that bad-YET. It could though. While I agree that we cannot afford another 11 years at war and there really is better shit to focus on-those weapons could be pretty nasty and used in horrible ways if they disappear into the black market. That is my issue.


Lets say some AQ group gets a hold of one of the many stockpiles of weapons. If they took over say a school, for I dunno, 20 minutes, they could kill everyone. They take schools hostage all the time over there.


If they released large amounts of the shit in open markets, nobody would really know anything was wrong until people started dropping. It doesn't have to be delivered on a plane, so, people would be none the wiser until it was too late.


Its not like people can jump behind a wall, dodge the gas or anything of the sort. I just think its a big deal I guess. Its a game changer in the terrorism scene if you ask me. Sneaking some shit like this around and planting it to kill people would be 10x easier than planting a bomb and blowing people up. Plus it would attract less attention since there is no BOOM to alert everyone something is wrong.


Plus, once they had the weapons they could learn how to produce more. They could sell them for tons of money to fund operations. They could do both and still keep some to kill people with and have plenty left over for a rainy day. No need for all that to happen in my opinion. Thats a whole lot worse than a targeted agenda of removing those weapons and walking away from whatever damage could be done in the process.

I'm kinda with Ralphie on this one. If we are going to be the World Police everytime then I demand that the world pay us a hefty fee for protection. We can then all start wearing expensive suits and speak with an accent. I want the few taxes I do pay going to rebuild and restore my country, not someone else's.


This is actually my specialty in the Army, and if you think Sarin and the stuff they used in the video was nasty, that's nothing. I've seen stuff that will literally make you melt.

yeah I mean I have read/heard about some of the other more crazy programs on bio weapons and shit-but still. Sarin gas seems like a pretty fucked up way to die.


I don't think we need to go remove assad or fight syria to the end, I think we need to handle this weapons issue and move on. Seems like if we can enforce things like a no fly zone and precision drone strikes from thousands of feet in the air, clearing the path shouldn't be all that hard once the weapons were located.


Then, maybe fly people in to safely destroy the weapons or remove them, and GTFO.


Thats what I think anyways. Too much BS in the region with no little gain. Those weapons end up in the wrong hands and crazy shit is going to happen from Europe to Asia as those weapons circulate the underground market.


Thats the only reason I think we need to get involved. We already know there are assholes that want us dead on the same side we are supporting in Syria. Why support them? Why fight with them? Why provide them with anything?

Its those weapons I am concerned about.

[Ralphie]

Bio/chem warfare is not new in any shape or form.

Not sure why all of a sudden, you're concerned. Because they used it on their own people, I guess.

Like I said, this is nothing new, and they won't be able to handle a mass exposure here in the US. It would take such planning, that it could not go undetected.

What you would see, if any, would be on a smaller scale like Boston.

Now obviously we would all like to avoid that, but I don't think it's worth invading a 3rd country on the chance they MAY use it ONE DAY against us.

If there is no evidence linking that, to an attack on us, I say spend the money on tech and solidfiy our fucking borders.

What good is invading another country if they sneak in the backdoor and blow up shop while we're deployed.

[toycar]

Bio/chem warfare is not new in any shape or form.

Not sure why all of a sudden, you're concerned. Because they used it on their own people, I guess.

Like I said, this is nothing new, and they won't be able to handle a mass exposure here in the US. It would take such planning, that it could not go undetected.

What you would see, if any, would be on a smaller scale like Boston.

Now obviously we would all like to avoid that, but I don't think it's worth invading a 3rd country on the chance they MAY use it ONE DAY against us.

If there is no evidence linking that, to an attack on us, I say spend the money on tech and solidfiy our fucking borders.

What good is invading another country if they sneak in the backdoor and blow up shop while we're deployed.

I don't really see it as invading another country or going to war again. I see it as a mission to obtain those weapons. I am not suggesting another round of afghanistan or Iraq. No, just fuck shit up, get those weapons and get out.


And I don't really see an immediate attack on US soil from these weapons, I more see something like a canister getting opened into someones ventilation system and poisoning everyone at a shopping mall or something to that effect.


Maybe they could poison a water supply with some of the weapons. Nobody really is talking about what all exactly Syria is holding onto. SO, who knows what could/would happen.


All I am saying is that all over the middle east millions of people live in close quarters where an airborne attack would be 100x more damaging than an explosion. They all share the same air.




And seriously, I am older than you-you think I don't know about bio weapons and the history of them? I remember watching the news when Agent Orange was used in Vietnam and shit. Do you remember watching that shit happen or do you remember reading about it in a text book? To me, the fear associated with those kind of weapons is probably different than it is for you. Why? I remember the sirens and planning for nuclear attack in elementary school. I remember all the talk about chem/bio weapons-when the world WAS using them and decided that whoah, maybe we shouldnt do that antymore.

So to me, I remember the emphasis and urgency surrounding the conversation. Most people that are younger than me that I have had this conversation have this,"Chemical schmemical" attitude like its no big deal.



It is a big deal. Like joey said, hes seen shit that makes people melt. Well, you think thats a big deal? I bet that Syria isn't using their worst/deadliest shit yet.

They aren't at that point yet.


Yet.

So far the weapons have been so effective, there has been no need to pull out anything more serious. I am sure it does exist though. I mean, who knows what exactly they have, but the weapons DO exist on this planet. For a long time the world has acknowledged that Syria has one of if not thee most advanced and largest stockpile of chem/bio weapons. Nothing new there. So why fuck around with it is what I am saying?


I don't think we need to go to war exactly. I think we need to flatten some castles or whatever, locate these weapons and handle that shit.

[Ralphie]

So why fuck around with it is what I am saying?


I don't think we need to go to war exactly. I think we need to flatten some castles or whatever, locate these weapons and handle that shit.

And all im saying, is why should it be us that has to be the ones to fix everything?

So we should send out our boys to go get poisoined? Melted?

No, I think they deserve a fucking break.


And how do you forsee us removing their weaponry without invading?

Sure we can take out a few armories with some well guided missles, but im sure they have their good stuff(if they even have any) well hidden under ground.

Yes, I know about bunker busters, but without good ole boots on the ground, it won't make a difference.

And even then, you have to change the desires and ideals of the people. If not, in 10 years, it will be the way it was, with some goon leading the pack.

So it's just too much involvment then I care to take part in.

If they want to use it on each other, well that's a shame. Maybe someone living THERE should step up and rally a cause.

[Ralphie]

Oh and before about us helping when he invaded Poland, we knew for quite a while about the Concentration camps, and we sat idly by. We also turned away Jewish refugees.

So don't portray it as US saving the day. We did go in and help, but if we had earlier, things would have been a lot different. It's always political.

There is a difference between Pearl Harbor, and us going in to forcibly remove weapons from lunatics.

[toycar]

It took months, maybe weeks to topple Iraq and figure out they had no weapons. It's the mess we made in the process that kept us there for a decade.


I'm saying who cares about fixing their broken country, deal with the weapons issue.


Why should we do all the heavy lifting? Well, to be honest isn't that just the American way?


It's not gonna take a decade to acquire these weapons and deal with them. It might take a decade to clean up the mess, but let them handle that. Who cares about the mess is all I'm saying.


The weapons are a big deal

[Joey GT-R]

The weapons are a bit of an issue I'll concede that. But I wouldn't want any boots on the ground whatsoever. I'd turn whatever hostile area to glass and call it a day.

[Ralphie]

It took months, maybe weeks to topple Iraq and figure out they had no weapons. It's the mess we made in the process that kept us there for a decade.


I'm saying who cares about fixing their broken country, deal with the weapons issue.


Why should we do all the heavy lifting? Well, to be honest isn't that just the American way?


It's not gonna take a decade to acquire these weapons and deal with them. It might take a decade to clean up the mess, but let them handle that. Who cares about the mess is all I'm saying.


The weapons are a big deal

Well you're being pretty naieve about the whole issue, im not sure if you're doing it on purpose, or just not thinking things through.

We are not still in Iraq because of the mess we made. Not solely anyway.
We are still dealing with pockets of insurgents and mostly training the Iraqi Police to hold their country up from colapse. This ties into my next arguement.

As far as the American way, yes, historically, we are called on to do law and order around the world along with our allies.

You can honestly sit here and tell me, that with air traffic controllers being furloughed along with millions of other federal employees, a record unemloyment rate, economy in the shitter, businesses closing daily etc etc etc

that we should fund the military to go in and either A) targeted strikes or B) invade and confiscate the weaponry we find?

Alongside Iraq/Afganistan funding.

Now enter Korea, who if they decide to bomb us(and has more merit then the Syrians) will force us into War........so that's 4 countries with active campaigns.....

You see where I'm headed. Let NATO and the Sryians fix their own problems. Whoever used the chemicals was either voted into power, or was allowed to take control. The reason why this has never happened here, is because of that 2nd Amendment that everyone bitches about. We would shoot them dead before ever allowing them to control us like that.

Why is that so hard for other countries to do? Why must we hold hands? If we were in a position to do so, I'd be the first one to make a petition on the White House's page.....

but we just aren't.

And no it might not take a decade to clear our Syria of chem weapons, but then what? A decade of rebuilding? And when we leave, what will prevent then from starting up again? The terrorists just relocate to another country that will allow them to hide in caves. Again, where is the people standing up to turn them in? They just look the other way.

That's where you're being naieve.

It will not be a in/out adventure. It will take time, and at the very least, a few million that we do not have at the moment.

I don't like them having weapons as these, any more then you, but the fact is, im sure a lot of other countries have them besides Syria. They may not be showering their people with it, but they have it.

I still think, we need to stop worrying about what others have and do, and focus on strenthening our borders and our intelligence.

If we focus on our security, and come as close as possible to a water tight system, we'd be good. Maybe prevent the next Boston massacre or 9.11

That's what it's all about no? We caught Saddam and Bin Laden to prevent 9.11 from happening again right?

But how much have we invested in to prevent them from really happening?

So instead of a few planes and a few thousand lives, it was two bombs and 3 lives with 200 injuries.

Is this going to be the new normal? Radicalized citizens? Im all for immigration, but people need to be screened a little better and loose ends need to be tied up.

I don't know man, a lot of shit needs to happen and it doesn't include air strikes on Syria LOL

[toycar]

I am not being naiive man. Douche




I am saying, fuck the rebuilding process. They are tearing that place up and destroying everything anyways. The current gov is full of shit, and the "rebels" are actually being led by insurgents.


No fucking reason to fix anything there at all. Fuck that. We have already spent 750 mill in humanitarian aid directly to Syria, and god only knows how much to Jordan, Turkey and Lebannon for allowing the refugees to flee Syria, its not like we are looking at spending money on something that otherwise costs nothing. We are already funding the humanitarian effort.


The rebels that are actually winning, are also the ones that want us dead. Al Nusra is the strongest militia in Syria right now, and they are aligned with AQ.


Which, validates my point entirely. Who cares if they tear that place up? Who cares if we tear it up and leave a giant fucking mess and governmental vac. Who cares. Why does anyone care about these assholes that want us dead?


The rebels that are actually able to fight/have a chance to win want us dead. They are the ones that will end up with the weapons in the event Syria loses posession of them. I am saying, fuck those guys, fuck the current regime, take those weapons and call it a day.


The gulf war is basically an example of the type of operation I am talking about. Handle shit and go home.


Those weapons falling into the wrong hands will do much more damage than anything the taliban/AQ has been able to produce in the last 10 years. I am surprised that you don't see it that way as well.


9-11 will look like NOTHING if insurgents get their hands on military grade chemical and bio weapons in the numbers that Syria has them and then run wild with that.


Don't you think its a novel idea to confront this issue in Syria, where we know the weapons are rather than trying to chase down this shit once they "disappear"


I dunno, seems like we are seeing this differently. My position and how you feel about it makes me feel like you are being naive. Assad isn't going to be in power forever. Its just not going to work like that.


Look what happened when Libya fell. Those weapons are all over the middle east now tearing shit up in the hands of insurgents. Case and point-if Syria falls, those weapons will kill lots of people all over the world. Libya should be the example to look at here if anyone questions what will happen with no gov in place and nobody to hold accountable.


my opinion anyways.

[Ralphie]

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...syria-war?lite

70k people dead already....

they bombed a holy site and AQ retaliated over a timeline of years, not one hit.

They're animals, let them kill each other over this stupid shit.

You don't give a fuck about the place, and are ok with letting it burn, so we should risk thousands of soldiers lives to go in and recover a few chemical bombs?

I don't know, I just don't feel like this needs to be our priority now.

Im failing to see how you think this would be as easy as the first Gulf War....

that needs explaining.

[toycar]

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...syria-war?lite

70k people dead already....

they bombed a holy site and AQ retaliated over a timeline of years, not one hit.

They're animals, let them kill each other over this stupid shit.

You don't give a fuck about the place, and are ok with letting it burn, so we should risk thousands of soldiers lives to go in and recover a few chemical bombs?

I don't know, I just don't feel like this needs to be our priority now.

Im failing to see how you think this would be as easy as the first Gulf War....

that needs explaining.

Not saying easy, saying urgent stategic front and an abrupt end. Remember in what was that, '95 when there was a sarin gas attack on the subway or train or something like that in Tokyo. Something like 13-15 people died, severely injuring 50 or so and causing something like 1,000 people or so to have vision problems for a while.


This attack is a great example of just how fast something as WEAK as sarin gas could fuck some shit up.


I am sure they have much stronger chem weapons, joey eluded to that already.


So, basically instead of a car bomb going off and then they attack a large crowd it will be a slow leak of gas, hundreds of people dropping like flies and then they come in and clean up shop killing everyone.


My thoughts anyways. Giving people that are willing to use airplanes as missiles chemical weapons is going to equate to a lot of carnage and death.


I could care less about making sure the Syrian people have roads, Mcdonalds or doctors when its all said and done. They should attack/take these weapons and confront the issue while they know where it is.


Let these weapons fall into the wrong hands, and then finding them afterwards will be about as easy as tracking Osama Bin Laden. It just makes more sense to me to confront the issue while its contained in Syria.

[turboAccordHSF]

I don't think we have to worry about chemical warfare being moved around, I'm pretty are our government is on top of it. And we wouldn't be risking thousands or even haundreds of soldiers, Marines or allied forces if we stepped in for these weapons. In fact I don't see it as "step" more like dip the tip of our finger in the issue. Both you Toycar and Ralphie are correct ...but to me it seems like you guys are arguing with yourselves let alone just each other.

I do how ever believe the U.S maybe even another country's intelligence agency(if there's one) are on top of it, though we wouldn't know I would like to think they would keep it on the down low. All these videos and shit in the media is just bs to me...I mean I'm not saying its all a lie but they sure know how to make it worse with a 3 minute clip or a small article.

I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S has already tracked the weapons ad are currently discussing a way to cease them, maybe have a certain special task group ready to stop these scumbags and take these weapons an Syria wouldn't even know what hit them.

Though I wouldn't risk even 1 dam Navy seal on the whole operation "retrieve chemical football" (just being funny) shit because in reality we take the chemical weapons and Then what? Ain't like they're going to stop, the killing will continue and the rebels will never stop, the mess is still there just no chemical weapons in the picture. Now I've read every single post so I know what you guys mean...

But another thought seeing that these weapons can be sold, or mass produced in numbers and can be used on our troops across the Middle East is what my good friend Toycar is getting at. Would hate to hear chemical warfare being used in Afghanistan or Iraq...that would totally bust my balls right there. I'd like to think Russia has an eye on this as well...

Maybe we don't need a war...maybe we don't need boots on the ground to fuck shit up and take these weapons away....we might just need intellegene and track these fuckers make sure they don't get any monkey ideas.

I've been following the whole Korean shit with Fatty Kim and his big fucken mouth for too long I'm starting to hate the news and feel like re-enlisting to the Corps...

The gulf war is something that we should go back and reminisce on, because that mustard gas was it? Or what ever was doing damage! And like you said the world saw that and decided "oh fuck that shit lets not do it like that! It's not human!" Yet the killing don't stop and the showing off nukes continues ...

Fuck politics guys...

[toycar]

I don't think we have to worry about chemical warfare being moved around, I'm pretty are our government is on top of it. And we wouldn't be risking thousands or even haundreds of soldiers, Marines or allied forces if we stepped in for these weapons. In fact I don't see it as "step" more like dip the tip of our finger in the issue. Both you Toycar and Ralphie are correct ...but to me it seems like you guys are arguing with yourselves let alone just each other.

I do how ever believe the U.S maybe even another country's intelligence agency(if there's one) are on top of it, though we wouldn't know I would like to think they would keep it on the down low. All these videos and shit in the media is just bs to me...I mean I'm not saying its all a lie but they sure know how to make it worse with a 3 minute clip or a small article.

I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S has already tracked the weapons ad are currently discussing a way to cease them, maybe have a certain special task group ready to stop these scumbags and take these weapons an Syria wouldn't even know what hit them.

Though I wouldn't risk even 1 dam Navy seal on the whole operation "retrieve chemical football" (just being funny) shit because in reality we take the chemical weapons and Then what? Ain't like they're going to stop, the killing will continue and the rebels will never stop, the mess is still there just no chemical weapons in the picture. Now I've read every single post so I know what you guys mean...

But another thought seeing that these weapons can be sold, or mass produced in numbers and can be used on our troops across the Middle East is what my good friend Toycar is getting at. Would hate to hear chemical warfare being used in Afghanistan or Iraq...that would totally bust my balls right there. I'd like to think Russia has an eye on this as well...

Maybe we don't need a war...maybe we don't need boots on the ground to fuck shit up and take these weapons away....we might just need intellegene and track these fuckers make sure they don't get any monkey ideas.

I've been following the whole Korean shit with Fatty Kim and his big fucken mouth for too long I'm starting to hate the news and feel like re-enlisting to the Corps...

The gulf war is something that we should go back and reminisce on, because that mustard gas was it? Or what ever was doing damage! And like you said the world saw that and decided "oh fuck that shit lets not do it like that! It's not human!" Yet the killing don't stop and the showing off nukes continues ...

Fuck politics guys...

Ralphie and I aren't arguing, lol, we are debating.






The thing I am most concerned with is the idea that a stockpile of weapons could be seized by 1 militia or group by winning 1 battle and then everything changes in the entire world.



The sarin gas attack in tokyo was pretty serious, and it was very small scale. Sarin gas is considered pretty weak in the world of chem weapons. I hate to think what these crazy mofo's would do with them. They kill people with pressure cookers and fertilizer and shit. They want to kill as many people as possible at any cost. I can only imagine the idea of baiting America into a global game of "catch me if you can" is appealing, and they basically gain control of our reaction if we allow them to get a hold of those weapons. We no longer have a choice to act if they start killing people with bio weapons and shit.

Let them open a canister on a plane, everyone dies except the guy in the bathroom that has a bio suit/mask or something-and then uses the plane as a weapon.


Its not like metal detectors will pick up on chemical weapons. They will not detect a gas mask. It would be much easier to smuggle onto a plane or into a stadium or something to that affect than a traditional bomb and basically be way more effective if the air circulation is managed and they can tap into that.


Its a horrible thought of what could happen if airborne weapons become available to the same people using children as suicide bombers. They would do pure evil things, and the world will regret not taking action while the problem could've been isolated in Syria.