the Gun Control thread

[owequitit]

P.S. if assault weapons are so bad, why is our President giving them to the Mexican drug cartels? Oh yeah, that was brushed over as insignificant on the news, even though they have kidnapped and murdered several Americans, and their violence has crossed my state border at least once. The Federal government's reaction to an assault on our citizens and sovereign territory? Let's give them more assault weapons...

And people wonder why we won't give up our guns...

[Tnwagn]

Better yet, if I only have a 12th grade education and work a low wage job (even if I am young or happy) does that make me less valuable as a human? Am I more likely to commit a crime because I am not upper class?

Did you know that Adam Lanza was upper class, and had not a socioeconomic care in the world?

Statistically speaking, yes. The majority of violet crime is committed by young people of lower socioeconomic standing. SOURCE

This doesn't mean that people of low socioeconomic status aren't capable of being incredibly caring, wonderful people or that people of higher socioeconomic standing aren't capable of being incredibly harsh, violent individuals.

Note: Before anyone responds to this and insinuates this post and paints me as guilty of classism, I just want to make it perfectly clear I am talking from a pure statistical standpoint.

Scott, I completely agree with your problems with the way the US is dealing with the drug war that is going on just beyond, and sometimes within, our boarders. This just goes to show that the issues aren't even confined to our own boarders.

I still need to look over the data available to determine what my thoughts are about what the best way to find a solution to the US's gun problem, which is something no one is able to ignore. I can say now, even without looking at the data, there isn't going to be a silver bullet to the issue.

[stewie]

^yes

owequitit, if i were to walk past you at midnight, on my cellphone, wearing a gucci suit, and holding a briefcase in an industrial area downtown, an area where not many people are and you had a gun on your hip, would you be more prone to think of me as "a threat" to you"?

compared to us in the same spot, but this time me wearing baggy jeans that dont even stay up properly unless i hold them, baggy shirt and hoody, hat on backwards, with a lil gangster walk goin on. which one are you going to think of as a bigger threat?

you said we dont need training on cars or voting? did you just walk into the dmv and ask for a licence when you were of age? cause up here, it takes 3 years to get a drivers licence, 1 year straight driving with a qualified supervisor, followed by 2 years on your own with absolutely NO mistakes. a single ticket will reset you to the very begining. so yes, we do have driver training, and it teaches us proper driving techniques, and the rules to follow.

why is your president giving guns to mexican drug cartels? project gunrunner was set up by the ATF to stop it, and guess what? odds are they got greedy, and helped the flow of guns going there. i'm sure your president had good intentions of setting that program up, but greedy people got in the way and used it to their own advantage.

as for the canadian who hacked off anothers head, they were at a rest stop, the majority of the people on board were already off the bus. after you've had your throat slit, theres a very small chance that your going to save the person unless you have immediate proffesional care. do i think the people should have guns, no, should the driver? yes, in a lock box, just as pilots do. the drivers the one responsible for getting his passengers to their destination in a safe manner. passengers did try to save him but were unsuccessful.

to ferenza, i never said i would hide in a corner, i would acknowledge the burgler and just let him take what he wants. if its a family member, yes, then i would respond and attack as much as i could. other then that, i have insurance, and police responce times are usually less than 2-3 minutes, so he will be caught. i live in an extremely populated area, and its extremely safe for that reason. but you said if someone comes into your house without your permission or without a gun, he is asking for serious punishment or death. okay, lets say he has a gun, if he has one, he surely wont be walking around with it in a holster with the safety on...it'll be in his hand ready to fire at the first sign of danger, and are you going to take the chance and play russian roulette with him?? over what??? a fucking tv?? a laptop?? a few dollars?? 2 people facing each other, both have guns, 1 will die. are your materialistic possesions honestly worth more than your life??

but okay, heres a compromise towards your gun control.

keep all the guns you have as is right now, dont ban anything and you can still use them, however, everyone after this day has to go through a long process to aquire a firearms licence. basically a similar method me and evil demon need to go through to aquire one...tests, practical tests, police interviews, 3 refferal interviews, and then you can get your licence. or is that to harsh for you guys? it hasnt taken away your rights to bear arms, just makes it longer to aquire and deters those who just want the gun to show off and act hardcore to their friends. after getting the licence, you can go in a purchase a hand gun and walk out that day with it. hows that? or is that even to extreme for you?

[Tnwagn]

...i live in an extremely populated area, and its extremely safe for that reason...

This does not agree with the statistics available. SOURCE

The more populous an area, the higher the rate of crimes per 100,000 inhabitants. For example, the population group with the highest incident rate per 100,000 inhabitants corresponds to the 500,000 to 999,999 inhabitant cities. While this data is according to US statistics, Vancouver (Pop. ~600,00) fits into this category and, statistically speaking, is a more dangerous area to live in than the rural areas outside of towns.

If everyone took the time to actually study the statistics available instead of using their own opinions based upon what their peers tell them perhaps the issues could be solved. I am still looking at reliable sources to determine what my standpoint on the issues is. Not surprisingly, it's hard to wade through the opinion pieces in the media right now to get to the real data.

[Scolirk]

This does not agree with the statistics available. SOURCE

The more populous an area, the higher the rate of crimes per 100,000 inhabitants. For example, the population group with the highest incident rate per 100,000 inhabitants corresponds to the 500,000 to 999,999 inhabitant cities. While this data is according to US statistics, Vancouver (Pop. ~600,00) fits into this category and, statistically speaking, is a more dangerous area to live in than the rural areas outside of towns.

If everyone took the time to actually study the statistics available instead of using their own opinions based upon what their peers tell them perhaps the issues could be solved. I am still looking at reliable sources to determine what my standpoint on the issues is. Not surprisingly, it's hard to wade through the opinion pieces in the media right now to get to the real data.

The only point I'll add to this thread is this SOURCE

Prince George BC is the most dangerous city in Canada according to Maclean's, and it's population is only 73,000. Large metropolitans including Toronto, Peel, York & Calgary are have populations of 1,000,000+ and are ranked 50 and lower in terms of the most dangerous. Stats don't lie, 4 of the 10 most dangerous cities in Canada have populations under 100,000. I'm most surprised that Hamilton is low on the list, I always thought it was a pretty dangerous place but in reality is quite safe compared to a lot of the smaller cities/towns in my country.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not taking any point of view on this at all, I don't want to be dragged in to this argument. I just wanted to post some quick stats I hope I don't regret posting here.

[stewie]

This does not agree with the statistics available. SOURCE

The more populous an area, the higher the rate of crimes per 100,000 inhabitants. For example, the population group with the highest incident rate per 100,000 inhabitants corresponds to the 500,000 to 999,999 inhabitant cities. While this data is according to US statistics, Vancouver (Pop. ~600,00) fits into this category and, statistically speaking, is a more dangerous area to live in than the rural areas outside of towns.

If everyone took the time to actually study the statistics available instead of using their own opinions based upon what their peers tell them perhaps the issues could be solved. I am still looking at reliable sources to determine what my standpoint on the issues is. Not surprisingly, it's hard to wade through the opinion pieces in the media right now to get to the real data.

yes, i see those stats, and they are for america, however, my province has the lowest crime rate in canada(cant find the actual stats on statscanada...but im sure they're there) source (yes its from a newspaper, but it states that stats canada has said it in it article)

the average home in vancouver is around 800(older 10year+ house) - 1.8 million (for a new house that doesnt require a full restoration). and for those prices, i do NOT live in a wealthy neighborhood. its safe...but by no means wealthy.

but like that article states, our teens are just doing other productive things with their time...i cant gurantee you, but i bet you if they let our teens have guns at an early age, the stats wouldnt be the same. if we had the ammount of firearms you have (americans) freely floating around and being sold illegally/stolen from home invasions, my city would be on a downhill slope, and the more its ignored by people saying "that boy was just troubled, he should have had help before he went on a mass killing spree" is flat out ignoring the fact that he did the crime. can you admit that there are a LOT of illegal firearms in america, able to be bought illegaly from the streets? that seems to me like an aide to criminals...similar to a gateway drug...a person starts off by stealing a bike..then moves on to a car...then he wants to rob a home, but he'll need some protection while doing so, so he gets a gun from an alley way from a crack head for 100$.

it just seems with the ammount of guns floating around, potentially capable of being stolen at any moment when someone isn't home and be resold on the streets is wrong. its a downhill slope, and its getting to the point where there will be no solution.

if your house was broken into while you were on vacation, and lets say 20 of your pistols were stolen(just a number im using), when you come back to see your firearms stolen, what will you do? go out and buy more to prepare yourself for the next home invasion? either way, those firearms are now being sold illegally to future criminals.

make it harder to aquire a firearm, and i honestly believe less firearms will be sold. as less firearms are sold, crimes will continue, and firearms will be seized. eventually illegal firearms will start to dwindle down.
its your right to buy a firearm, but if its going to take you a year to gain a firearms licence(length it took to aquire mine) and your a 17-18 year kid just out of highschool..are you really going to have the mind set that says "im of age! lets get a gun!!!!"? or would you say.."meh fuck it...my dads got a few guns...if i want to shoot em ill go with him"
however, if your shooting the guns without supervision from a licenced firearms holder, your firearms are seized on teh spot and if the owner knew that they were using the guns without his supervision, his licence will be stripped for a few years.

[Tnwagn]

The only point I'll add to this thread is this SOURCE

Great information, thanks for sharing.

I never would have imagined how vastly different the statistics are between the US and Canada with regard to crime. Guess that serves me right for not checking the statistics myself

[Scolirk]

Great information, thanks for sharing.

I never would have imagined how vastly different the statistics are between the US and Canada with regard to crime. Guess that serves me right for not checking the statistics myself

I was amazed by the stats too. I drive to Hamilton every day and always assume it's high on the crime list but I suppose it's best to not judge a book by it's cover. The municipal government and local police have definitely done a good job in cleaning up the streets.

[stewie]

I was amazed by the stats too. I drive to Hamilton every day and always assume it's high on the crime list but I suppose it's best to not judge a book by it's cover. The municipal government and local police have definitely done a good job in cleaning up the streets.

i know this is a one sided reply cause i dont know how it is in other cities across canada or usa, but i live maybe 5 minutes from a police station, and a community police station is found almost every 5 minutes of driving in populated areas (community police station as in a few clerks in case anyone needs help immediatly and goes in there for safety, a place where officers can park to take a quick snack break or lunch break) so anywhere you are in the city, a cop is no more than a few minutes away at all times.

[Scolirk]

i know this is a one sided reply cause i dont know how it is in other cities across canada or usa, but i live maybe 5 minutes from a police station, and a community police station is found almost every 5 minutes of driving in populated areas (community police station as in a few clerks in case anyone needs help immediatly and goes in there for safety, a place where officers can park to take a quick snack break or lunch break) so anywhere you are in the city, a cop is no more than a few minutes away at all times.

That's how it is out here. Burlington has regional police as well as provincial who are always around. Hamilton has an RCMP detachment in Stoney Creek, and I've been followed by an RCMP car once. I feel very safe being out here in Ontario, never been a victim of crime.

[N9netwoAccord]

keep all the guns you have as is right now, dont ban anything and you can still use them, however, everyone after this day has to go through a long process to aquire a firearms licence. basically a similar method me and evil demon need to go through to aquire one...tests, practical tests, police interviews, 3 refferal interviews, and then you can get your licence. or is that to harsh for you guys? it hasnt taken away your rights to bear arms, just makes it longer to aquire and deters those who just want the gun to show off and act hardcore to their friends. after getting the licence, you can go in a purchase a hand gun and walk out that day with it. hows that? or is that even to extreme for you?

What exactly would the license be for..? To own firearms? Or would that include to only transport to and from shooting ranges on a given path? I am not against a more... difficult? process to acquire a gun, but what if I want to sell one locally? My state doesn't require me to register my firearms. I have a license to conceal and carry. I could fly under the radar even with a policy like the one you're trying to compromise with.

[stewie]

What exactly would the license be for..? To own firearms? Or would that include to only transport to and from shooting ranges on a given path? I am not against a more... difficult? process to acquire a gun, but what if I want to sell one locally? My state doesn't require me to register my firearms. I have a license to conceal and carry. I could fly under the radar even with a policy like the one you're trying to compromise with.

Yes, to own and transport. I'd like to say to have them registered, that way if a stolen gun was seized in a crime, they can track it to the last owner and why it wasn't claimed as stolen...if he's no legitimate answer...how do you know he hasn't been selling guns to felons?

I can explain more later, but for now I'm actually in a guns store since they have a huge Xmas sale lol. So when I get home ill reedit this out

-edit-

home now, yes, the licence is to purchase a weapon/transport it. however im not so sure you would need to have transport papers since your allowed to open carry in certain states...so for now lets say its just specifically for purchasing a firearm/ammunition(in open carry states). start up a gun registration from tomorrow on. so what you have now...leave em be if its easier for people to cope with. for myself, registration is ONLY required for a pistol or a restricted weapon(assault rifle mainly). the process of obtaining a firearm isnt so much more difficult, as it is more indepth of the person whos wanting it, all you really need to do is have passed a basic gun test and practical test, and have an interview with a police officer as to why you want the gun, will it be for sport or defence..etc etc..have 3 proffesional friends interviewed over a phone (the better and more proffesional, the easier it is. if you have a family doctor and can get him to take a few minutes out of his day to answer a few questions, they might not even need to ask the other 2) but the interview will be the same, a police officer asking if you've ever been known to act out of rage, if your a violent person, have had severe depression before, what your money situation is like(my three were asked that in case i was low on money or in so much debt that they want to make sure i wont attempt suicide)...etc etc. let the paperwork go through, eventually it'll be finished and then you get a licence in the mail, photo id saying your allowed to own a weapon. from that day on, theres no 3 day wait period or background checks, its already been done. your licence will expire every 5 years like your drivers licence. just get a new photo and mail it in.

registering the guns, like i said, if your house is ever robbed and your guns are stolen, you report it immediatley, from that point on, cops come to your house, do the investigation, and if the gun ever comes up in a crime, your held free of accountability of future crimes that gun is involved with and whoever has the gun at that point takes the hook for breaking into your house even though he might have been the 10th criminal to own that weapon sice it was stolen. the gun will be used as evidence for the trial of the criminal, and after the trial is said and done, your gun is returned.

as to selling a pistol/rifle, its no different than selling a car, you transfer the paperwork over claiming you sold the weapon for this ammount of money to john doe, you both sign, and voila, hes the new owner. all you have to do is let a police station know of the transaction and they can swap over the registraion to that other person providing he has a licence. sure your in your 20's -40's and have many weapons, but when your kids are starting ot get to the point where they need to go to college, take a look at the weapons you own, and sort out a want vs need. maybe help your kid out with tuition that way?

but thats just my suggestion on gun control while trying to compramise as much as i can on your right to bear arms without having to be yelled at by someoen

[stewie]

^^ no replies? wow, lol, was expecting a few to yell at me at least

and i know this is a wiki site so im sure its not 100% authentic, but it is able to give a rough idea about gun control and civilian safety.

hardest countries to aquire a gun

canada is up there at number 3, america is number 21. dont you find it the slight weird that the canadian guy (me) is continually complaining about gun control in this thread?

[phatdoughnut]

^^ no replies? wow, lol, was expecting a few to yell at me at least

and i know this is a wiki site so im sure its not 100% authentic, but it is able to give a rough idea about gun control and civilian safety.

hardest countries to aquire a gun

canada is up there at number 3, america is number 21. dont you find it the slight weird that the canadian guy (me) is continually complaining about gun control in this thread?

I wouldn't trust that link what so ever, it looks like it was suppose to be alphabatized?

To me there is no comparison at all, none of those countries were established like the USA with the same rights.

Its christmas everyone is taking a break and shooting the 40 guns they own. I think I just became a millionare with my 10 AR-15's and hundreds up 30 round mags.

[stewie]

I wouldn't trust that link what so ever, it looks like it was suppose to be alphabatized?

To me there is no comparison at all, none of those countries were established like the USA with the same rights.

Its christmas everyone is taking a break and shooting the 40 guns they own. I think I just became a millionare with my 10 AR-15's and hundreds up 30 round mags.

How's this stats?

Gun deaths per country

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-with-firearms

9369 compared to 144.

Gun control works the way I see it.

On the fist link it says the NRA says "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

Well not in my mind