Application Question

[Ralphie]

At least the rounding up of the Japanese wasn't intended to be anything but a measure of national security. Sure, it was terrible and pointless... an overreaction to being attacked... but wasn't slavery.

Nazi Germany DID practice slavery in the Jewish work camps. Everyone focuses on the genocide, but not many people note that those prisoners were forced to work before they were put to death.

That is true about the Japanese, but it is still a horrible situation.

From a Jewish standpoint, we definitely emphasize the forced labor.

Obviously the Genocide will always overshadow the rest, but the forced labor and just the sheer manor in which they were rounded up, is just as bad.

When people talk of it, it is from a Human treatment standpoint.

Even if the Genocide had never occured but the collection and labor did, it would still be just as damaging to the people affected.

[Soufkackicustom]

shits crazy i would pay to see that shit, black people wipping white people . please no one take this the wrong way its just funny to think that the roles have def changed

I re read this 10 times...and my first reply was to try to stay non offensive. But in all honesty stereo types would be a appropriate means. If you are African American (no you specifically, I don't know if you are or are no) and don't see that America is geared towards your success, your and idiot. African Americans have all types of things going for them, ACLU, NAACP, united negro college fund....ect. This is where the stereotypes come in play. If as a culture, they would stop looking at the past, and look at the hand out infront of them...non of this would be a issue. So what if your raised in the "projects" and "that's all you know" there are tons of people who were raised in just as bad or worse situations, and made it. Free college, all kind of grants, the opportunity to be hired before some on just because of race..real hard existence. In a culture where $100,000 car in front of a $20,000 house is ballin, but only a white dude can have a $100,000 house...with a $20,000 car. There's no difference.....both add up to the same money. I wouldn't put it past a vote the more African Americans would rather be segregated from Caucasian, not the other way around. I could care less what color anyone skin is. I don't think, oh there's black man John, or white man Jim, it's just John and Jim. But in our battle to make up for past suppression, we as a country are actually starting to suppress the former suppressors. Which isn't right either.

I feel that most jobs, they are going to train you anyways to do it, so why not leave off race and gender on the application, and just pick the best one on paper

[deevergote]

It's an issue of overcompensation. Instead of being denied, certain groups are being favored (and it's not just black people... groups of pretty much every non-caucasion group are granted a certain level of special treatment.)
However, in MANY parts of this country, caucasian people are still given favor. To say that anti-"minority" practices are not in full effect in many areas is absolutely untrue. Our government's practices are very much "minority friendly", essentially to make up for years and years of poor treatment of certain groups (ironically, the Irish were given the shaft as often as any other group... but I don't get shit for being Irish!)

Personally, if I was in a "minority" group that got special treatment, I think I would be offended. Don't deny me access to something for who I am, but on the same note, don't hand me something for who I am either. The color of my skin shouldn't be a reason to be denied, nor should it be a reason to be given special consideration. Why is it only racism when it's bad? "Affirmative Action" was a fully racist program.

The unfortunate thing is, this country will never be fully unsegregated. It just can't happen. People will hate based on differences, no matter what. Even if we got mixed up enough to be a nice uniform shade of beige... we'd be discriminating against people with middle toes that are longer than their big toes, or people with attached earlobes.

People are different, and they wish to celebrate those differences. That's a good thing. But differences will always make a divide.

[Ralphie]

It's an issue of overcompensation. Instead of being denied, certain groups are being favored (and it's not just black people... groups of pretty much every non-caucasion group are granted a certain level of special treatment.)
However, in MANY parts of this country, caucasian people are still given favor. To say that anti-"minority" practices are not in full effect in many areas is absolutely untrue. Our government's practices are very much "minority friendly", essentially to make up for years and years of poor treatment of certain groups (ironically, the Irish were given the shaft as often as any other group... but I don't get shit for being Irish!)

Personally, if I was in a "minority" group that got special treatment, I think I would be offended. Don't deny me access to something for who I am, but on the same note, don't hand me something for who I am either. The color of my skin shouldn't be a reason to be denied, nor should it be a reason to be given special consideration. Why is it only racism when it's bad? "Affirmative Action" was a fully racist program.

The unfortunate thing is, this country will never be fully unsegregated. It just can't happen. People will hate based on differences, no matter what. Even if we got mixed up enough to be a nice uniform shade of beige... we'd be discriminating against people with middle toes that are longer than their big toes, or people with attached earlobes.

People are different, and they wish to celebrate those differences. That's a good thing. But differences will always make a divide.

Sure you do, you get St.Patricks day BWAHHAAHAHAHA



And yea the problem is, is that we should be at a point now in 2012 where we have moved on from the past.

Not forgotten, because a society that forgets it's past is certainly doomed to repeat it.

We should definitely be embracing our differences. It is what makes us unique as individuals and as a nation.

That works to an extent.

Yes there will always be people who are discriminatory, but outside that select group, the rest of us should be getting along just fine.

Some people just can't accept change, while others have this stupid ass fear that it can only be one way safely.

It is ok for people to segregate voluntarily.

That is, be around people of similar backgrounds.

It's natural and there is no stopping that.

The real good stuff comes when you step outside your comfort zone and get to know that group of people sitting across from you.

The really good shit comes when that group takes you in as one of it's own.

Until the majority of people in this country can understand and put into practice that concept, well, we are just stuck arguing over the same old bs time and time again.

[Soufkackicustom]

^^^^^well said. We're all born the same, crying and naked, and were all promised the 2 same things..birth and death

[deevergote]

Sure you do, you get St.Patricks day BWAHHAAHAHAHA



And yea the problem is, is that we should be at a point now in 2012 where we have moved on from the past.

Not forgotten, because a society that forgets it's past is certainly doomed to repeat it.

We should definitely be embracing our differences. It is what makes us unique as individuals and as a nation.

That works to an extent.

Yes there will always be people who are discriminatory, but outside that select group, the rest of us should be getting along just fine.

Some people just can't accept change, while others have this stupid ass fear that it can only be one way safely.

It is ok for people to segregate voluntarily.

That is, be around people of similar backgrounds.

It's natural and there is no stopping that.

The real good stuff comes when you step outside your comfort zone and get to know that group of people sitting across from you.

The really good shit comes when that group takes you in as one of it's own.

Until the majority of people in this country can understand and put into practice that concept, well, we are just stuck arguing over the same old bs time and time again.

The thing with voluntary segregation, though... it becomes an issue of exclusivity.
Decades ago, black people were required to ride in the back of the bus. They weren't allowed in the front, with the white people. That was involuntary, and thoroughly unfair. I do not know if white people were forbidden to ride in the back (I don't believe they were... I believe a black person was expected to surrender their seat if a white person wanted to sit there.)
But now, if black people were to voluntarily say "the back of the bus is OURS. Only we can sit there!"... that would be unfair to anyone else. Voluntary segregation = exclusivity. Instead of being forced to be there, they're forcing others NOT to be there.
I apply that concept to the usage of the "n word". I'm not supposed to say it. I don't say it. It's disrespectful and rude. But I've been told by many black people that it's ok for a black person to use it. I don't think that's fair... and I think using that word is an insult to all black people... it should be equally insulting regardless of who uses it.



I do agree that we need to move beyond the past, though. Not forget it, you're right... but no living American citizen has been a slave owner. No living American citizen has been a slave.
Of the Japanese Americans that got put into camps during WW2, there are likely many still alive (those that were young at the time...) But NOBODY that was responsible for doing that is likely to be alive anymore. Certainly not with any influence over our government.
I'm only using those two because they're two of the biggest outright atrocities committed within the US, sanctioned by the US government.

The people that were wrong are long gone. Most of the people that were wronged are long gone. Who is left to apologize? Who is left to apologize to? Nobody.


Race is a touchy subject... but honestly, the best way to stop unfair treatment of one group or another is to STOP DRAWING ATTENTION TO IT!

[Gemini]

Alot of good theories posted in here, too bad i'm not confident i'd be alive to see any of these major changes implemented.

I know alot about slavery but merely through reading. I know alot about racism, some of it from reading some of it from personally experience.

For those that dont know i was born and raised most of my years in Jamaica before moving to the US. Jamaicans have a whole different view on slavery and racism than the average black american does.

Jamaicans dont really talk about slavery in the same way, they never mention that their ancestors shouldve gotten "40 acres and mule" also even though alot Maroons and ex-slaves did get property from former owners.

The racism thing...well in Jamaica its weird because your average Jamaican prefers to interact with people of lighter skin tonesor different background. The darker skinned Jamaicans are treated a little worst than most unless their family has some financial backing. I went to school with white Jamaicans, Indian Jamaicans, Asian Jamaicans, etc so there wasnt really any segregation after slavery which is why most Jamaicans are not really racist towards "most" people.

My great parents were not slaves...shit on both sides of my family they owned a shit load of land back then. I cant really say i grew up poo because i didnt. What im trying to say is that my family didnt really feel the after effects of slavery.

When i moved to the US it was an eye opener. I experienced everything i saw on TV or read in books and it took awhile to get use to.

[Ralphie]

The thing with voluntary segregation, though... it becomes an issue of exclusivity.
Decades ago, black people were required to ride in the back of the bus. They weren't allowed in the front, with the white people. That was involuntary, and thoroughly unfair. I do not know if white people were forbidden to ride in the back (I don't believe they were... I believe a black person was expected to surrender their seat if a white person wanted to sit there.)
But now, if black people were to voluntarily say "the back of the bus is OURS. Only we can sit there!"... that would be unfair to anyone else. Voluntary segregation = exclusivity. Instead of being forced to be there, they're forcing others NOT to be there.
I apply that concept to the usage of the "n word". I'm not supposed to say it. I don't say it. It's disrespectful and rude. But I've been told by many black people that it's ok for a black person to use it. I don't think that's fair... and I think using that word is an insult to all black people... it should be equally insulting regardless of who uses it.



I do agree that we need to move beyond the past, though. Not forget it, you're right... but no living American citizen has been a slave owner. No living American citizen has been a slave.
Of the Japanese Americans that got put into camps during WW2, there are likely many still alive (those that were young at the time...) But NOBODY that was responsible for doing that is likely to be alive anymore. Certainly not with any influence over our government.
I'm only using those two because they're two of the biggest outright atrocities committed within the US, sanctioned by the US government.

The people that were wrong are long gone. Most of the people that were wronged are long gone. Who is left to apologize? Who is left to apologize to? Nobody.


Race is a touchy subject... but honestly, the best way to stop unfair treatment of one group or another is to STOP DRAWING ATTENTION TO IT!

Well when I said that, I didn't mean active segregation, as much as I did passive segregation.


In NYC, if any group of people tried to stand up and claim the back as their "own" they would just get laughed at.

No one would take shit like that seriously.

In any case, of course calling something your's that isn't is crazy.

I was more referring to school. How kids tend to stick together.

Growing up is night and day from the real world, although this sometimes carries over to a working enviornment too.

I don't think it's bad outright, I think it's only bad when people are not pushed to explore outside that group.

You can't get rid of the human need to associate with peers of similar background.

Just as you'll never rid the need for humans to be accepted(by anyone)

When i moved to the US it was an eye opener. I experienced everything i saw on TV or read in books and it took awhile to get use to.

See that's unfair.

I know, life isn't fair, but honestly that's just really sad.

Coming here at a young age and having to experience the worst of what you've read and realize that it is indeed true has to be rough for anyone.

I really have a lot of respect for people who have come here.

My buddy moved here from Italy at 13.

I know a lot of people like that.

It's just mesmerizing to me because I grew up in one country my whole life.

I did move from NYC, to NJ, and eventually to Fl.....but it's not even the same thing.

[Soufkackicustom]

I think highly of a lot of people who moved to the USA who were born in diffrent countries. I love to talk to them about the differences from here to there, and most of them I know, own their own businesses. And the Jamaican accent kicks ass. I don't know why, but I love to hear it. They can be cussing you out and it sounds friendly

[deevergote]

Well when I said that, I didn't mean active segregation, as much as I did passive segregation.


In NYC, if any group of people tried to stand up and claim the back as their "own" they would just get laughed at.

No one would take shit like that seriously.

In any case, of course calling something your's that isn't is crazy.

I was more referring to school. How kids tend to stick together.

Growing up is night and day from the real world, although this sometimes carries over to a working enviornment too.

I don't think it's bad outright, I think it's only bad when people are not pushed to explore outside that group.

You can't get rid of the human need to associate with peers of similar background.

Just as you'll never rid the need for humans to be accepted(by anyone)










See that's unfair.

I know, life isn't fair, but honestly that's just really sad.

Coming here at a young age and having to experience the worst of what you've read and realize that it is indeed true has to be rough for anyone.

I really have a lot of respect for people who have come here.

My buddy moved here from Italy at 13.

I know a lot of people like that.

It's just mesmerizing to me because I grew up in one country my whole life.

I did move from NYC, to NJ, and eventually to Fl.....but it's not even the same thing.

Oh yeah, that's true. I grew up with mostly white friends, even though I lived in a very mixed area. Never for any real reason, other than we just stuck together, as did the others. We all got along, though... and when a few morons in my high school decided that wearing white laces in their combat boots, shaving their heads, and calling themselves neo-nazis was cool, I was among the first to give them a hard time.
Even now, most of my friends are white. Again, for no real reason, other than that's the circle I ended up with. The handful of "minority" friends integrated into my various circles of friends aren't regarded as different. When differences come up, which they do occasionally, we either discuss them candidly, or we make lighthearted jokes about them (that are appreciated by all in the group, and never done around anyone else that could be offended.)

I think highly of a lot of people who moved to the USA who were born in diffrent countries. I love to talk to them about the differences from here to there, and most of them I know, own their own businesses. And the Jamaican accent kicks ass. I don't know why, but I love to hear it. They can be cussing you out and it sounds friendly

I swear, when I come across an older Jamaican person at work (I knock on doors for a living, dealing with foreclosures), I can barely understand them! I have a better time with strongly accented Hispanic and Korean people (I work in areas heavily populated by both very often.) I do love the sound of a Jamaican accent, though. Definitely a musical sound!

But yeah, I love talking to people about their origins.
Blizzard335 and I used to talk about how things are in Malaysia all the time (he's pretty familiar with how things are over here.) It's so interesting to hear how different societies work. People are generally the same from one country to another, but the customs, ways of life, and general expectations are often SO different.
It seems that Americans have a lot, expect more, and get upset when they don't get it. Overall, the US is a pretty damn selfish country!

[ChIoVnIdCa]

As far as applications go I don't answer that question. I have had a interviewer ask before since they were curious...

The only time I have experienced "affirmative action" was during a state law enforcement job interview... Basically how it worked was... You took a test and your score put you in line for the interview.. They made two groups.. A general group and a minority group.. (Minority group was females, veterans, non white males)

I scored top of the list... 100%.. So I had two interviews one from general group and one for the minority group. The minority group was 50% white veterans and everything else non white male.

Females had a lesser physically test

I see where AA fits in.. But I am ?first? generation American.. Born here.. (Father is Bajan) and they were above average there. And my mothers side.. (white) have been here since? well I don't know... And are in general failures..

Not to generalize but in GENERAL I see a difference in "African American" families and immigrant "black" families.

[Gemini]

Not to generalize but in GENERAL I see a difference in "African American" families and immigrant "black" families.

I agree with this statement. If you talk most black families from the Caribbean or anywhere else they will tell that they are not "African Americans" regardless if they are naturalized citizens or not.

[MikeW]

And let's not forget how we rounded up the Japanese out West.
And Europe showed how civilized they were in WW2 as well LOL.

At least the rounding up of the Japanese wasn't intended to be anything but a measure of national security. Sure, it was terrible and pointless... an overreaction to being attacked... but wasn't slavery.

Nazi Germany DID practice slavery in the Jewish work camps. Everyone focuses on the genocide, but not many people note that those prisoners were forced to work before they were put to death.

Call it what you will, but I wasn't aware that we rounded up Japanese citizens back in the 40s. I knew about Hitler and the Nazis and the Jewish, but I wasn't aware of the japanese camps here. This song opened my eyes to that...

^^^^^well said. We're all born the same, crying and naked, and were all promised the 2 same things..birth and death

And taxes.

As far as applications go I don't answer that question. I have had a interviewer ask before since they were curious...

The only time I have experienced "affirmative action" was during a state law enforcement job interview... Basically how it worked was... You took a test and your score put you in line for the interview.. They made two groups.. A general group and a minority group.. (Minority group was females, veterans, non white males)

I scored top of the list... 100%.. So I had two interviews one from general group and one for the minority group. The minority group was 50% white veterans and everything else non white male.

Females had a lesser physically test

I see where AA fits in.. But I am ?first? generation American.. Born here.. (Father is Bajan) and they were above average there. And my mothers side.. (white) have been here since? well I don't know... And are in general failures..

Not to generalize but in GENERAL I see a difference in "African American" families and immigrant "black" families.

I agree with this statement. If you talk most black families from the Caribbean or anywhere else they will tell that they are not "African Americans" regardless if they are naturalized citizens or not.

I agree as well. I've had the pleasure of meeting and knowing a few African immigrants and they live, and act, completely different. Living here has made them grateful and more appreciative for the things they have, and that we Americans take for granted. I don't think that's a race thing though. That's more of "coming from poverty" thing.

When asked, I answer that I'm male. That can, usually, be determined by my name. I don't think it's right to be asked my race. At least not when applying for a job.

[Ralphie]

Ya growing up was a mixed bag.

Of course the first few years in NYC, I was around a whole slew of people.

Spent a few years in Central Jersey and it was mostly white.

Then moved to S Fla in 1994 and , again, it was a mixed bag, which was nice!

In high school I was heavy into skateboarding.

The person who taught me my introduction into Skateboarding was Indian I believe but I never got to know him very well and we split ways once I actually started.

His name was Sameer Hussein.

Probably the nicest kid I've ever met.

Once he introduced me to his skate crew(were 2 years younger then me) I ended up rolling with them 24.7 and I think he ended up at a different HS.

In any case the group was a mix.

One of the better skaters in the group was my buddy Paul, who is black.

Probably the craziest of the bunch actually and tried everything once lol.

I guess my point is, is that the group I fell into was mixed.

Skateboarding brought us together and we shared a lot of personal moments etc.

Some great memories, like playing Street Fighter Turbo and using that to decide the winner who would take the last slice of Pizza LOL.

Having those guys as buds helped a lot in forming who I am.

Our group had a little of everything and it helped to break down walls that otherwise existed if it had not been for our common hobby.

My HS was pretty violent actually and to this day when people talk of it, its usually in a negative light, but in my 4 years there, it really wasn't that bad.

Worse then a lot of other schools yea, but day to day really went smooth I must say.

The biggest event was riots that involved the Hispanic community and Black community.

I believe it started over a girl, but Im not certain.

Other then that, there was not a lot of racism or predjudice in the day to day life at the school.

There were different groups but people often floated between them and no one was really exclusive.

[Ralphie]

Oh and im now once again living in Central Jersey and thankfully it isn't as white as it once was LOL.

Much more mixed then in the late 80's.