the best petition ive ever seen...

[Ralphie]

What I think is hysterical, is that as many people talk shit about Obama yet he only needed 270 to win and came out with like 330.

Someone likes him lol.


And the other issue is that the House is repub and and make everything a nightmare.

The party bs really sucks.

If they could come together on more issues and really work for the people, things would be a lot smoother and stupid issues could be cleared up so we could spend more time focusing on education/economy/enviorment which is what we really need.

[wildBill83]

See what I mean, Ralphie for pres 2016!

[Ralphie]

See what I mean, Ralphie for pres 2016!

LOL!

Thank you, but no thanks!

I got enough grey hairs as it is!

400k a year isn't too shabby though.

[deevergote]

400k AND free housing for 4-8 years!

[wildBill83]

400k AND free housing for 4-8 years!

Free maid and butlers, free 5 star chefs, free jet rides all over the world on your own jet, free body guards, free healthcare, free education for your children... man the list is just about endless.. All with retirement pay!

[deevergote]

Of course... no privacy, a bullseye on your head, an entire nation... an entire world... criticizing every decision, and official polls showing how many people don't like you.

[wildBill83]

Yeah, with every positive comes a negative... Just gotta look at the glass half full, not half empty.

[BIGRICH]

Bill has a point about the Texans in the US army no longer being US citizens, and therefore unable to continue as US military. That would be an interesting thing to see worked out... as those soldiers would also be contractually bound to the US military.

The US government would most certainly pull ALL of their property out of Texas, aside from whatever was used by any agreed-upon occupying military force (if such a thing happens.) Texas may end up requesting help from the US military until they establish a credible military of their own.

I mean, honestly... Texas doesn't own much in terms of military equipment. If the US pulls all their military property out, Texas would be hard pressed to replenish the equipment, train the troops, and protect their borders.
Seeing as Texas shares a massive land border with the US (I'm just going to talk as if the secession has happened... easier that way...) then the US will have a very strong interest in keeping Texas safe from foreign invaders.

here are some interesting points.....copied and pasted from different sources

The National Guard is directed and primarily funded through its respective state. The Army Reserve is solely funded by the federal government. It is also, however, restricted by posse comitatus

The Governor of said state is the Commander In Chief of its own state based National Guard.


The Texas Army National Guard is composed of approximately 19,000 soldiers, and maintains 117 armories in 102 communities.


with that being said.....the military equipment in the ng armories are state owned (just not reserves). those 19000 odd soldiers are employed by the state too. each of those armories hold the firearm issued to each of those 19k soldiers. im sure TX has plenty of ammo, lol. of those 117 armories, about 40-50 of them should be field artillery units with paladins and mlrs tracked vehicles. these figures do not include how many AIR national guard units TX has.

I do not think secession will EVER take place....but they could hold their own, just saying. i dont really have a dog in this fight but just wanted to throw that out there. I was in the KS ARMY NG and NC ARMY NG.....which is what got me thinking about the state vs. federal funding.

[toycar]

Damn the conversation exploded!!




I read alot to catch up, and I want to comment on a bunch of stuff.


First of all, the cartels would probably PWN Texas. No offense Texas guys, but the cartels have been pwning the mexican military for years. They've killed like 30,000 people on our borders and we (the US) are avoiding the conflict as if it doesn't exist. The cartels nowadays are made up mostly of badass trained ex-military people from mexico that chop people up and make human stew out of the corpse. Sick fucking people. Some of them were trained US soldiers.

Read up on Los Zetas just as an example. The cartel-prior to being a cartel- provided muscle for cartels. Ex military special forces are common members. One day they decided to take over, and thats exactly what they did. Mexico has been at war ever since. There are lots of cartels too. Not just one or two. Estimated 30-50 serious cartels.






Next topic, lol;


Texas as a state has the 15th largest economy in the world(per 2010 study) when compared to other countries. Texas has a larger economy(GDP) than Mexico, South Korea, the Netherlands, Turkey or Indonesia. There economy is larger than Finland, Venezuela, Greece and Thailand combined.

So, Texas would get by just fine and survive financially as long as they could fend off the Cartels.






Next topic;


Since Texas has such a large economy, they have lots of working class people paying taxes already. If the exact same tax code remained in place and was adopted by Texas, they would generate enough revenue through existing taxes to compensate people that get assistance without changing anyones tax rate.

They would also produce things like oil that would make them a very wealthy country. I bet they would start making light bulbs again too, lol.




Next;



The militia men would NEVER be as well trained as the US military. They would also be substantially behind the developmental curve for international security-as a country-so they would still need the US.

[BIGRICH]

the militia men would NEVER be as well trained as the US military. They would also be substantially behind the developmental curve for international security-as a country-so they would still need the US.

i would totally agree with you if we were talking about this 10-20 years ago.....however, the guard has the best training....on the job training. most of the troops in the middle east are guardsmen....they are always the first to get deployed.

[toycar]

i would totally agree with you if we were talking about this 10-20 years ago.....however, the guard has the best training....on the job training. most of the troops in the middle east are guardsmen....they are always the first to get deployed.

I should've had more emphasis on the word developmental. They are lacking a full hand at any one game. Im sure they could get organized, but they would be behind the curve for quite some time.

Just as an example, developing a nuclear weapon. It would take a long time for Texas as a country to enter the nuclear game if it was even possible, so they would need a big brother with nukes to ally with.

Aka the US.


Situations like that is more what I was eluding to.


As far as the cartels, they have heavy weapons already. You guys in TX might have guns and shit too, but the cartels regularly fire RPG's and use mortars to fight the gov in Mexico.


They would show up with rocket launchers compared to a typical militia's high powered assault rifle.


It would take time for Texas to get armed and be able to defend against serious threats, and I guess that was my point when I said they would still have to lean on the US.

[BIGRICH]

I should've had more emphasis on the word developmental. They are lacking a full hand at any one game. Im sure they could get organized, but they would be behind the curve for quite some time.

Just as an example, developing a nuclear weapon. It would take a long time for Texas as a country to enter the nuclear game if it was even possible, so they would need a big brother with nukes to ally with.

Aka the US.


Situations like that is more what I was eluding to.


As far as the cartels, they have heavy weapons already. You guys in TX might have guns and shit too, but the cartels regularly fire RPG's and use mortars to fight the gov in Mexico.


They would show up with rocket launchers compared to a typical militia's high powered assault rifle.


It would take time for Texas to get armed and be able to defend against serious threats, and I guess that was my point when I said they would still have to lean on the US.

so you dont think that the national guard has fire power? you do realize they have everything that the army has, right? and how hard do you think it would be for a state that has that much revenue to purchase illegal arms up to and including nuclear, biological or chemical weapons?

as i said, i dont think it would ever happen, but the military is someyhing i think they would have to put little thought and effort into, thats all.

[toycar]

so you dont think that the national guard has fire power? you do realize they have everything that the army has, right? and how hard do you think it would be for a state that has that much revenue to purchase illegal arms up to and including nuclear, biological or chemical weapons?

as i said, i dont think it would ever happen, but the military is someyhing i think they would have to put little thought and effort into, thats all.

Im sure the national guard has fire power.


They absoloutely do not have the MAN POWER to hold a line though. It would take time to get trained and build up the forces to hold down Texas.

Thats the way I see it anyways. Mexican drug cartel leaders get busted all the time with .50 cal mounted bullet proof trucks, rocket launchers, ground to air shoulder fired missiles and all.


Yeah, Im sure Texas has some firepower as well.

I doubt they have a sufficient surplus to cover the entire state though. National guard has 19,000 troops?

I mean that is a large number.

But, the cartels have killed over 30,000 in 5 years. Texas is huge. The number of men per capita with 19,000 pairs of boots would be limited. There are 1200+ incorporate cities in texas, not to mention all of the townships and little hole in the wall places.


On the other side of the coin, the cartel people would just pull up and cap like 50 people at a hotel and drive away. Like assassinating citizens and shit. It would be a tough fight for anyone and thats why the US has stayed out of it.

[Ralphie]

Speaking as someone who was an Active duty soldier and a Guardsmen, the NG is pretty weak compared to the Reg Active soldiers.

They do get deployed a fuck load, but theyre training is not anywhere as good as the training I receieved while on active.

A lot of times we just stood around because the unit had not planned appropriately.

I realize that is just one unit, but Ive heard it is common in the NG.

It is much more lax then Active.....so my point is, is that yes, they would have resources and would remain behind because they are not Federal status, but unless all 19,000 happend to be the best NG units in the US, they would still struggle defending TX.

[toycar]

Speaking as someone who was an Active duty soldier and a Guardsmen, the NG is pretty weak compared to the Reg Active soldiers.

They do get deployed a fuck load, but theyre training is not anywhere as good as the training I receieved while on active.

A lot of times we just stood around because the unit had not planned appropriately.

I realize that is just one unit, but Ive heard it is common in the NG.

It is much more lax then Active.....so my point is, is that yes, they would have resources and would remain behind because they are not Federal status, but unless all 19,000 happend to be the best NG units in the US, they would still struggle defending TX.

Even if they were 19,000 navy seals divided by 1200 cities to protect-its an uphill battle.

That only puts 15 pairs of boots in every city.


Then you start looking at larger cities that would obviously need more than 15 soldiers, and you would have less than 15 in smaller areas with less population.


Those smaller cities are what would get attacked first. And just like any military campaign, they would take parts of Texas and it would be a back and fourth battle for ground.


Point being that 15 soldiers would get overrun during a cartel attack in any city.