Mj Is Legal In Colorado Washington

[Ralphie]

Well then the changes are in the works.

It will work it's way up the ladder and eventually will become law!


And btw your job sounds awesome.

Probably tedious at times, but being able to see a job go from scribble on a paper to a full blown shopping center has to be pretty cool.

[toycar]

Well then the changes are in the works.

It will work it's way up the ladder and eventually will become law!


And btw your job sounds awesome.

Probably tedious at times, but being able to see a job go from scribble on a paper to a full blown shopping center has to be pretty cool.

Aww man you have no idea. Its not like I personally own these buildings when they are done but I can certainly reflect on how much effort I have applied and proudly own a sense of accomplishment.



This is by far the most rewarding position I have ever held with a company. I love my job.

[dbales]

I get what you're saying toycar (sorry I don't know your name, although I think I saw it somewhere). Smoking everyday you get a feel for how much is enough for certain tasks that I might be doing that day or at the time. But I do stand firm to say I wouldn't work on stuff that could put anyone in danger if it fails. Perfect example: my car, because hell, if I have to top off the oil, I'll forget to put the oil cap back on. Lol and that's sober as a priest.

As being high on the job, I can see where there are definite risks. I, myself, am guilty of firing one up on the job, and I work with 24 pinspotter machines. Again, I knew my 'limit', so I could function, but if I had been caught high and tested positive, I'd be fired and rightly so. The same goes for being drunk, or suspected to have drank on the job or before my shift. My boss would probably call the local law just to have them breathrolize (spelling?) on the spot because I don't believe we have any of those tests available here. The work I do, if I don't properly lock out and tag out machines I can kill myself.

Maybe I'm just getting old and getting back to what I was taught coming up. I see points on both sides of the argument, but honestly until they can come up with accurate forms of detection of levels of thc (as they do now with alcohol) weed will have a hard time gaining popularity with the more right wing states.

Also I believe the stupid people will always ruin it for everyone. For every 'responsible' smoker, there are probably 3 'irresponsible' smokers. For the most part, and what I've seen with drinkers, is there are a lot more responsible drinkers to irresponsible ones, example: everyone knows 'that guy' at the party or get together. I think this is due to alcohol being around and accepted for so long already. Eventually smoking weed will probably get to this level. Smokers just gotta calm down and give it time.

[owequitit]

I generally agree with what you are saying.


I do work on my own shit all the time after smoking some(maybe 4-5 tokes) and enjoy some beers while doing it(maybe 2-3 over the course of 5-6 hours)


Nothing crazy. Im sure if you used to smoke daily you used to do stuff high as well. You know just as well as I do that you could safely mow the grass after smoking a bowl. You could very easily change your oil. There are plenty of things you can do that are not reaction time specific or threatening someone elses life while having a mild buzz. I am positive that you learned your own personal limits. Its an easy assumption to make here that while you smoked daily, you probably didn't kill anyone or burn any houses down or anything like that. I bet you worked on some shit or another while being high too. Wether it was mowing the grass, washing dishes or cooking dinner. You did stuff after smoking weed and probably didn't kill/hurt anyone or destroy anything.

I think my point in all of this is that the general assumption about MJ is incorrect. Im not suggesting you don't get effected by MJ. Shit, thats why I do it. What I am saying is that its just plain silly for all of these people to live in fear of MJ when there is plenty of room for it in society. We dont just become reckless pieces of shit after we smoke a bowl. Chances are, if you are a POS after smoking a bowl you were a POS before. People can safely live and smoke weed without wreaking havoc on the rest of the world or killing themselves. It is an easy arguement when comparing the effects of MJ to many already legal substances.

It is not meant as a justification, but a comparison. Since MJ is illegal, its worth comparing to things like alcohol or certain frequently abused prescription pain pills and questioning why? When comparing the ill effects of both, it is generally pretty obvious that ill effects of alcohol/pain pills are much worse than MJ, but MJ still ends up being illegal.

Again, Im not advocating for people to get high on the clock or be able to drive high. I agree that there is a very sharp measure of accountability needed if they legalize it. I also think smokers are responsible for showing the public that we can be responsible with our habit. Thats our job, not yours. We need to assume the worst and show the best in this situation. How come people can drop oxy and drive to work and nobody seems to care? Does anyone think MJ is a harder drug than oxy?

I do think it is bullshit that someone could get fired for working sober but smoking weed at home-even if they have a prescription for MJ. Blood tests can tell an employer if the person is currently high. This is nothing new. Why can't they just adhere to that approach instead of fucking with people that can both smoke and be responsible? Im sure the outsourced testing facility can handle both types of tests. If an employee was found to be high on the clock, why couldn't the law allow an employer to refuse to pay the person for the shift worked and have the option to terminate on the spot as well as deduct the cost of the testing from any owed wages? It would have a 0 net effect on the company financially, and the risk of someone showing up high would be just the same as it is now. People work high all the time. No arguing that it happens.

There should be a middle ground here. Millions of people already smoke weed and exist in society. People that smoke weed are no more or less responsible for the bad shit that already happens in society than sober people, and definetely less responsible for the problems than people that do other drugs or drink. I asked for someone to present me with examples of all the MJ users wreaking havoc on society already. I mean, theres more than 17 million pot smokers in the US. Surely we have already validated the fears, wheres the proof? We do exist, we are your neighbors and co-workers. We already exist side by side. So, show me the proof of the damage that MJ does to our society.

For the few that get in trouble, the rest of us sure deal with the consequences. The general idea about MJ is flawed, the general understanding of MJ flawed and communication is completely broken in the conversation. People just regurgitate shit they have been told their entire lives, and refuse to acknowldege that people actually living that lifestyle may have some insight on the topic.


Its absoloutely silly to me. I would think that 24 years on the job would give me some insight or a leg to stand on in the conversation. Non-smokers actually think my experience in the topic discredits my opinion, since I smoke weed I must be an idiot. Some people just refuse to accept or acknowledge that there is more than one side of this conversation. For the majority of MJ smokers the typical stereotype does not apply.

This is all just pure non-sense.

The effects of impairment have be proven time and again. And scientifically, to top it off. Not by some smoker who thinks that there is no influence on his capacities. Great. You think it doesn't affect you in a bad way. You have made that abundantly clear. However, you have actually brought nothing to to the table that PROVES you have absolutely no decrease in function while under the influence. You are the one selling the new product here, not us. Therefore, the burden of proof of lack of influence is on you, not the other way around.

For the record, I have many friends that smoke, and I don't speak ill of them, I don't think they are lesser humans, and I don't think they are incapable. However, their facilities DO decrease when they smoke, as a side effect of the drug. If it didn't have side effects, then you wouldn't smoke it, and you know it. So really, you are trying to dodge the root issue with smoke and mirrors because you absolutely can't deny the fact that A) it has been proven to decrease function time and again, and B) that you can't prove it doesn't happen to you.

On a typical project I deal with tons of people and make literally hundreds of decisions. Right now I am developing a strip mall in AZ, another in CO and researching a data center for Pixar. My last two projects were in MN and they are wrapping up as we speak. Thats actually were I am right now. Waiting to meet with my contractor to work out a punch list for the finish. Did two apartment complexes for the same guy. Each complex has 7 building with housing for 8 in each building. Garages, rec rooms, pool etc.

It all starts with an idea. I meet with someone and they lay it on me. Then I review their plan, and find the flaws. I work with local gov on zoning, permits and the sort to find out if its even reasonable. The I meet with the survey team to find the land and get it surveyed. I have to review the stats for the area and take that into account. Is the land a good value? Does the location see enough traffic? Location relevance to interstate travel? Demographics? Population? City vs county laws in relevance to location. Finished cost per sq.ft, and potential lease costs. I work with both the developer and the companies moving in. The approach is different for something like a data center vs a retail strip mall, apartment complex or building for retail and condo's.

As an example I have to come up with real numbers on what the lease would cost per sq.ft, before we even start writing checks or building anything. I have to find a total cost for the developer, as well as the cost per sq.ft for potential tenants(if its a retail jobby).


Then if all systems are go and I think its a good idea I take it to corporate. They give me a laundry list of questions/stipulations specific to whatver the project is. For the strip mall I had to find all kinds of shit out. Who's going to lease there, who's committed, for how long, what kind of businesses they are, if the area supports that kind of business etc..

Then after I've done my research and I get the go ahead from my boss its time to start getting serious. After working with an architect, a group of engineers and the devoloper(s)- we get a plan together. I then work with local contractors and have the land straightened out, the plumbing and electrical brought in, the concrete poured and go from there. I higher mason workers, electricians, glass people, security companies- you name it, I do it. We are a finance company that delivers a finished project rather than writing a check and walking away. We consider it protecting our investment.


I have 20-30 teams of people on any 1 job, and 1 team often has 40-50 people on board. All the while I keep 3-5 projects moving at once in different parts of the country. On the data center Im working out the details for right now I expect to use enough k-5 line to wrap around earth and then some. There will be 50 cubes per floor with 4 stations per cube. So 200 stations per floor with ethernet/phone and electrical. 4 bathrooms per floor, each bathroom has m/f so really its like 8 bathrooms. Upper floors have offices and conference rooms and even more BS like the break room/janitors closet and that kind of shit.

Every project is different, and every client is different. Also, I waste a lot of time traveling trying to land clients in the first place. I meet with people all the time and have to tell them their dream is destined for failure and walk away. Shit happens, its part of my job. So yeah, my job gets pretty intense. You could say that it requires a lot of focus and dedication to keep things organized in my life and by example I am the complete opposite of what people have grown to assume a "pot head" really is.

This is a valiant attempt to prove how you are a valid member of society, and I am happy that you are successful. But it adds nothing to the root argument, nor does it really have anything to do with MJ.

In my job, I deal with potentially MILLIONS of customers, and I am solely responsible for determining whether pilots who might be flying your ass around are able to do so or not. Think about that for a second. As such, it behooves me to know what the affects of possible chemical interaction is, and it is actually a required test item by the FAA. Again, science disagrees, and as much as you hate to admit it, science is right. Plus, we both know you don't want to go putting your life in people's hands who are not 100% capable of performing their duties. It is unlikely that you go to the worst doctor you find... So again, it has nothing to do with the reality of impairment, nor does it strengthen your case. I could tell you my life story and all of the intricate details of my job too, and it doesn't add validity to my point.

There are a lot of people just like me in the world too. The majority of smokers lay under the cover of darkness. 99% of the time the general public has no idea that people like me are lurking around the corner. The assume I am damaged goods or broken because I smoke weed. At one point in this current conversation it was implied that after smoking weed you couldn't perform as well as a toddler.


Lol

Its ridiculous that non smokers think smoking weed somehow effects people as dramatically as they describe or have grown to believe

What is pretty ridiculous is you trying to twist my words into something I didn't say. Either you were high and misread, you didn't want to hear it, you didn't understand it, or you thought I wouldn't catch it. Either way, I am calling you on it, because this is an absolute sham of what I actually said.

What I said was that when impaired with hypoxia (which decreases brain function similarly to drug interactions) people PERCEIVED that they were performing in only a slightly diminished capacity, when in actuality, they could not perform the basic functions of a toddler (specifically by placing the uniquely shaped blocks through the uniquely shaped matching hole). I didn't say it was under the influence of MJ. You also completely missed the underlying point, which is that people who PERCEIVE near normal levels of performance are not necessarily able to deliver it because they reality is altered. The same holds true of alcohol, MJ, Speed, Coke, Crack, Meth, Whippets, or any other form of intoxicant that alters the neuro-chemical balance in your central nervous system. I did not say that MJ causes you to not perform a toddler's duties. What I did say, and imply, was that YOUR perception of your impairment is NOT an accurate measure.

[SPLCB7]

I do I do!!!
(You lucky basterd)

I'm making a road trip to wa after I get my duramax quad cab truck. Probably rolling four deep to see my cousins and one of them grows some killer indoor.

lol let me know when you guy are up here well meet up!

[toycar]

This is all just pure non-sense.

The effects of impairment have be proven time and again. And scientifically, to top it off. Not by some smoker who thinks that there is no influence on his capacities. Great. You think it doesn't affect you in a bad way. You have made that abundantly clear. However, you have actually brought nothing to to the table that PROVES you have absolutely no decrease in function while under the influence. You are the one selling the new product here, not us. Therefore, the burden of proof of lack of influence is on you, not the other way around.

The problem here is that you think we are arguing wether or not you are effected. And, you have it in your head that I am arguing that you are not effected. That is completely incorrect. What I am suggesting is that the perception of how effected you actually are is incorrect. Anyone that smokes regularly can smoke a little bit and still be functional just like they could smoke a lot and get bombed. You learn your limits. As I have said a bazillion times now-I dont think its ok to do at work. I do think the assumption by the general public about how effected people actually are is just plain silly.

For the record, I have many friends that smoke, and I don't speak ill of them, I don't think they are lesser humans, and I don't think they are incapable. However, their facilities DO decrease when they smoke, as a side effect of the drug. If it didn't have side effects, then you wouldn't smoke it, and you know it. So really, you are trying to dodge the root issue with smoke and mirrors because you absolutely can't deny the fact that A) it has been proven to decrease function time and again, and B) that you can't prove it doesn't happen to you.

I agree with you here. I agree that it can reduce my function to an extent. If you smoke enough sure, you will be pretty useless. The problem with your assumption here is that regular smokers don't smoke themselves stupid all the time. You would have to smoke yourself stupid to be incapacitated like most non smokers assume you are after smoking one bowl. The perception of how high people actually are is part of my issue. Most of the time regular smokers avoid getting stupid high. It is certainly avoidable if you choose to. If you are planning on being productive you don't smoke that much.

Im not saying you have to get high to work either, just that when regular smokers do they are aware of the effects, their limits and generally plan accordingly. We are much more aware of our limits than people want to give us credit for. Im not trying to prove that I dont get effected by it. What I am trying to prove is that people can smoke in their off time and still be responsible, productive members of society.

This is a valiant attempt to prove how you are a valid member of society, and I am happy that you are successful. But it adds nothing to the root argument, nor does it really have anything to do with MJ.

Had you read all of my posts you would see where its relevant to MY arguement. Im not suggesting that MJ doesn't effect people. What I am saying is that smoking weed does not equate to being a moron. Plenty of functional people in society effectively manage their habit while having a great career. Their jobs should not be threatened if they are managing their hobby correctly and they dont work a high risk job. It is not rocket science to test and decide if someone is currently high.


As I previously suggested, why can't they do a blood test rather than a urine test? I'm sure the testing is outsourced 90% of the time anyways, and the testing facility could handle either. I suggested that the employee be fired if using on the job, refused wages for any time worked while under the influence and to recover the test cost from any owed wages.



I am not suggesting that I have the answer(s)- just that the conversation needs to take place. There needs to be a middle ground. I would assume that some companies would still make it against policy to use, even off the clock. Some jobs are much more important, like your job as an example. There would be a process to establish some guidelines, and Im not saying I have those answers. I am saying the conversation needs to happen.

In my job, I deal with potentially MILLIONS of customers, and I am solely responsible for determining whether pilots who might be flying your ass around are able to do so or not. Think about that for a second. As such, it behooves me to know what the affects of possible chemical interaction is, and it is actually a required test item by the FAA. Again, science disagrees, and as much as you hate to admit it, science is right. Plus, we both know you don't want to go putting your life in people's hands who are not 100% capable of performing their duties. It is unlikely that you go to the worst doctor you find... So again, it has nothing to do with the reality of impairment, nor does it strengthen your case. I could tell you my life story and all of the intricate details of my job too, and it doesn't add validity to my point.

I have maintained throughout this conversation the same position on this. Maybe since you have selectively read my posts you missed my position on the topic so I will repeat. I do not think it would be or ever should be OK to smoke or be high on the clock. I have said this numerous times in this thread. The relevance to my ability to "do work" was to illustrate that I can function after smoking. Not that I or anyone should be high at work.


The point I was eluding to was that smoking a little bit is not the same as getting bombed. The perception is wrong, and when I said I can do some things better high I meant it. I can weld better after smoking a little. Probably helps me not get irritated or bored with what I am doing. Welding gets tedious and takes forever. It is the truth, my welds come out better if I have a couple beers and or smoke while doing it.

I was not advocating for people to get high at work. I was suggesting that the perceieved worthlessness after smoking weed was far from accurate. I don't really know how much more clear I can be about how I feel about this. I agree that nobody should do your job or any job under any influence. You shouldn't get fired if you smoke at home on your own time though. Well, 99% of the time. I'm sure if this conversation actually ever happened people would think of situations when smoking at home still would not be ok. Like when you are on call as an example. Im sure when you are on call you cannot get drunk either, and I bet the employer has a policy for this situation just like they would for smoking MJ if it was legal.

What is pretty ridiculous is you trying to twist my words into something I didn't say. Either you were high and misread, you didn't want to hear it, you didn't understand it, or you thought I wouldn't catch it. Either way, I am calling you on it, because this is an absolute sham of what I actually said.

What I said was that when impaired with hypoxia (which decreases brain function similarly to drug interactions) people PERCEIVED that they were performing in only a slightly diminished capacity, when in actuality, they could not perform the basic functions of a toddler (specifically by placing the uniquely shaped blocks through the uniquely shaped matching hole). I didn't say it was under the influence of MJ. You also completely missed the underlying point, which is that people who PERCEIVE near normal levels of performance are not necessarily able to deliver it because they reality is altered. The same holds true of alcohol, MJ, Speed, Coke, Crack, Meth, Whippets, or any other form of intoxicant that alters the neuro-chemical balance in your central nervous system. I did not say that MJ causes you to not perform a toddler's duties.

What I did say, and imply, was that YOUR perception of your impairment is NOT an accurate measure.

2) In scientific study after scientific study, after test and trial, after test and trial, science has unquestionably proven that the average reaction time is reduced by the use of MJ, alcohol, and any other manner of controlled substance, which is the basis for controlling them in the first place. In any given sample, the reaction time went up on average (and in some cases significantly depending on what was being tested), even though the test subjects did not estimate themselves to be of diminished capacity during the test. You can find a lot of similar evidence with altitude chamber testing. In most cases, most people think they are performing only slightly worse than normal while hypoxic, but in fact, they are not able to complete simple tasks that a toddler could do. Not exactly the same as drug induced behavior, but it is a similar result, where the subject had a similar opinion. You can google alchohol studies all day long and come up with the same conclusion. The reality is that due to chemical interference, basic brain function decreases, and more importantly than reaction time, judgement and complex decision making (such as you would need when operating a complex machine, or making critical decisions) suffer greatly

You are right in the idea that I connected these dots specifically between the "toddler" comment and smoking weed- and for that I apologize.

You have to see where you eluded to my assumption though. You claimed that test after test the same shit was found. You illustrated how time and again people view themselves as functioning normal and are clearly are not. You suggested this was a common feeling for people under any influence. You used the hypoxic example as the icing on the cake, and then suggested that the outcome was similar to other substances while coining the toddler comment specifically to hypoxic.


If you feel I twisted your words I will own that. You are right, I made an assumption- I didn't mean to twist your words. I think you see where you very clearly implied what I assumed and to accuse me of deliberately twisting your words would be a stretch. Technically speaking you did not specifically say MJ caused the same results-to that much you are right. You implied it by saying the results were similar though, but, I guess you are right.

[wed3k]

yea!!!!!!!!!! let's all smoke weed!

[toycar]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/30/health...ndex.html?c=us


Interesting read. Talks about a young girl with cancer and how they credit medical mj in part for remission.

Not really sure how I feel about this.

Thought it was worth reviving this thread and discussing.


Please, let's avoid beating a dead horse over the topic that's already been discussed.



What's your guys' thoughts on the article I linked?

[10thAnnivCB7]

I tried weed once and i didn't like it all that much. I guess becuase it wasn't the best out there but as some members here say i would rather do that after a long day than drink alcohol.