Mj Is Legal In Colorado Washington

[toycar]

Ralphie;


In the interest of people actually reading what we are talking about Im not going to quote any more epic posts, lol.


Damn we type alot.



Lol



Any opinion you may have about MJ has all been formed with the current laws in place. We can agree on that right?


Are you really trying to tell me the current system is working? You think you dont already drive in traffic with people that are high? You think you go to the "non smokers" grocery store?



We are apart of your daily grind, and you are oblivous to this fact 99% of the time.

Quoted because I was hoping to talk a bit about this. I think its worth pointing out that all of us weed smokers are already apart of the daily grind, and you guys already drive next to us in traffic and see us at wal-mart.


Since so many people are already smoking weed, wheres the damage? Wheres the pot-head that drove a school bus into head on traffic, the electrician aka stoner that burned your house down or the teacher that got high before they went to school?


All of the fears associated with making weed legal are symptoms that people have grown to expect from irresponsible people using drugs/alcohol.


So, since there are so many stoners smoking weed, going to work and driving high already, were are all the problems that we are already causing?


I mean the stuff that is being talked about happening if weed becomes legal is already happening.

People already smoke weed and drive. People already go to work high.


Show me the evidence of our habit and how its fucked up society with weed being illegal.



There are enough smokers out there that every single example of a "worst case scenario" has already happened thousands of times.



Find me a story about an airline pilot getting high before lift off. Find me a story about a teacher smoking weed on the job, or a construction worker dying from working high.

Or a house that burnt down from the electrician smoking weed or any of the other fears that are so strongly being expressed. All the shit you guys are afraid of happening already happens.



Like I've said 10 times already, most of us smokers get by just fine in life without causing any problems or getting noticed.

Non smokers are none the wiser day in and day out, but let the conversation come up and all the sudden they know everything about MJ and how impaired we are.


Lol

[Ralphie]

Black market has more say in what is on our streets than the gov't does anyday. They do get a HUGE say in the matter.

In what world do you live in that you think the black market has more say then the Federal Govt?

Im not interested in anything the black market has to say, so your argurment is invalid.

Pre-America, the natives smoked it (and still do) that makes it part of their culture. Pre-reefer madness, it was a good chunk of a culture for certain groups. Hell even hippy culture since the 60's involved it, so yeah it is a part of some cultures in the US, just not your specific culture. Hell lest go back even further, it was used in the old testament and new testament, it was just named canna bosom, this makes it part of that culture too.

Jimson weed, Jamestown weed or night shade is a plant grown in the south and produces strong halucinations and upto death. It is used in native cultures for spiritual expansion. Google it, it provides a good read.

When I say culture, I speak for the US as one culture. Now obviously there are many cultures and it differs from culture to culture, but my point was that even though MJ has been used throughout the years, maybe by many different cultures, I don't believe people outside the US associate MJ with the US the way they might with Amsterdam. It just isn't "our" culture, as much as some people would like it to be.

It was part of the conversation, it was pertinent information, even before I brought up the points again.

Ok that's fine, but unless I want to read it or reference it, there is no LAW saying I have to read it. And because I have the freedom to NOT read it, that doesn't automatically mean im close-minded. Why are we even debating this?

Someone who is close minded would be kicking and screaming right now that you are still talking and not just adhereing to my views.

It has not been legalized for recreational use, it is a perscription drug. Has oxy use increased? Yes, but it is perscribed and legal as well. Legality has no bearing on usage. Those that want it will get it.


What problems related to usage do you see increasing?

Well that was a mistake on my part, yes, it is legalized for prescription only, not for recreation. Sorry.

As far as I see it, legality and usage go hand in hand.

So your telling me that there are not thousands of people who don't smoke who possibly would if it WERE legal? There is a whole group of people who your over looking.

And if legality had nothing to do with usage and vice versa, then it would be legal already.

As far as problems related to usage, I could go on for days.

How about the point I made earlier.

Were going to allow 18 year olds to smoke legally, and also expect them to do so responsiblly much like driving and drinking....however the legal age is 21.....so should the legal age for smoking mj be 21???

Just that ALONE is a slew of problems.

Do I need to continue?

Did you miss my post that is to a study that states MJ is NOT linked to violence? http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showpost...&postcount=140


Have you looked at the number of marijuana related domestic violence cases compared to alcohol? I can assure you that the number of alcohol cases GREATLY outweighs cannabis in every study.

I agree, alcohol trumps MJ. That in itself, does not negate the issues with MJ.

Just because one is worse does not make the other better.

[wildBill83]

In what world do you live in that you think the black market has more say then the Federal Govt?

Im not interested in anything the black market has to say, so your argurment is invalid.

I live in the real world. So your telling me that the US gov't says no illegal drugs and there are no outside forces to go against it? That's why there are illegal drugs here, because of the black market. This means that the black market had more say:
US Gov't said no
Black market said yes
Black market wins because it is a fact that illegal drug use exists.
This is more valid than your arguement that mj and violence are linked.

Black market is nothing more than public demand for something the government said no to, but isn't the government supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people? So in a sense the government is dissenting from the population's demands, this gives the black market form.

When I say culture, I speak for the US as one culture. Now obviously there are many cultures and it differs from culture to culture, but my point was that even though MJ has been used throughout the years, maybe by many different cultures, I don't believe people outside the US associate MJ with the US the way they might with Amsterdam. It just isn't "our" culture, as much as some people would like it to be.

The US is not and will never be one culture like you are alluding to. Also mj is a big part of California culture for example, wether you want to agree with that or not. There are MANY cultures in America where it is a big part of, you just don't see it.

Ok that's fine, but unless I want to read it or reference it, there is no LAW saying I have to read it. And because I have the freedom to NOT read it, that doesn't automatically mean im close-minded. Why are we even debating this?

No, but to be considered open minded you have to look closely at both sides, even if it is not something you want to read. I read your biased study on violence and mj.

Someone who is close minded would be kicking and screaming right now that you are still talking and not just adhereing to my views.

A close minded child may do that, a close minded adult would just turn a blind eye to what they don't want to see and continue on down the same path as before the discussion.

Well that was a mistake on my part, yes, it is legalized for prescription only, not for recreation. Sorry.

As far as I see it, legality and usage go hand in hand.

So your telling me that there are not thousands of people who don't smoke who possibly would if it WERE legal? There is a whole group of people who your over looking.

Chances are if they are adults and chose not to smoke then they won't like to smoke in the first place, no one is telling them to quit drinking in the same manner as people are telling pot heads to quit smoking. If legality and use go hand in hand then please explain countries where they have a lower usage rate than the US but it is fully legal for recreational use.

And if legality had nothing to do with usage and vice versa, then it would be legal already.

It was legal already in the past, all the way from before 1776 to the early 19th century, and when prohibition passed in the early 1900s illegal use skyrocketed prior legal use... This is fact. This coincides with the rise of logging/tobacco/pharmacuetical companies, and I fully believe the government complied with them to produce income.

As far as problems related to usage, I could go on for days.

I'll ask toycar about his problems related to usage, seems to me he is doing just fine along with a plethora of other closet smokers. In fact some states think it is not as problematic as you do and that is why it is now legal for recrational use.

How about the point I made earlier.

Were going to allow 18 year olds to smoke legally, and also expect them to do so responsiblly much like driving and drinking....however the legal age is 21.....so should the legal age for smoking mj be 21???

Well drinking age use to be 18, also I believe it has been stated over and over again that it should be regulated on the same level as alcohol.

I agree, alcohol trumps MJ. That in itself, does not negate the issues with MJ.

Just because one is worse does not make the other better.

I never said it was worse or better, but that your information is far from factual. Plus as I linked earlier there is almost no link between marijuana and violence other than the violent people who are buying it and vending it on the streets.

Violent people will be violent without drugs or guns. Ask anyone in Great Britian.
People that don't car about laws will continue to break them.

[Ralphie]

Toycar-

I must be expressing myself incorrectly.

After 3 or 4 pages, do you really think that I think that smokers are going to run rampant??

I mean if you thought I was an idiot, jesus what do you think of me now!?!?!?!?!LOL


I don't want to dictate what you do, or effect your life in any way outside of this forum.

I like bs with you and thus far it has been pleasant.

I appologize that Im not explaining my side better.

I am pro legalization.

I just want to ensure that it is strictly regulated and enforced and I do hope that more people come out and support it such as yourself.

I can't say if the testing will change, but I do agree that it is unfair to be tested and subsequently fired even if you have not smoked in weeks or if it is something you ONLY do at home.

Unforuntely that is our current system.

It really is a double edged sword.

On one hand, it is unfair that if you are straight as an arrow at work but burn on the weekends or at home, that to be fired is shitty.

From an employers POV, if you smoke occasioally and never come into work high and they remand the testing to accomodate that, what do they do when someone slips up and comes in high?

Fire them on the spot....but what about after the damage is done?

So for employers, its easier to just have a zero tolerance.

It isn't because we think all potheads are couch potatoes or that they should not have a say.

It is because no one wants to take a risk on the chance that they MAY or MAY not fuck it up.

When you guys prove it then im sure it will change.

[Ralphie]

I live in the real world. So your telling me that the US gov't says no illegal drugs and there are no outside forces to go against it? That's why there are illegal drugs here, because of the black market. This means that the black market had more say:
US Gov't said no
Black market said yes
Black market wins because it is a fact that illegal drug use exists.
This is more valid than your arguement that mj and violence are linked.

Yes the US sets laws, and the black market looks to bypass those laws. That doesn't mean they get a say, it just means they are looking for fast cash and an easy excuse to profit. Doesn't make it, or your argument, legit.

The US is not and will never be one culture like you are alluding to. Also mj is a big part of California culture for example, wether you want to agree with that or not. There are MANY cultures in America where it is a big part of, you just don't see it.

I do see it. The whole reason we are debating this right now, is because it is a big part of American cultures. My point from the beginning, was that it hasn't been a part of the American culture from day one....it has been around, but not mainstream. Just because something exists does not make it a pillar of culture, but of course remember that is basically my opinion.

No, but to be considered open minded you have to look closely at both sides, even if it is not something you want to read. I read your biased study on violence and mj.

My study was not biased, it was just focused on one speficic group, African American youths. I realize that does not apply to all of America, and youths in inner cities where crime and drugs are rampant, are starkly different from the rest of the US, but the fact is , is that MJ does have an effect on violent.

If you have any shred of common sense, you should be able to see that.

Im hopeful that most of it will wash away when it eventually becomes legalized due to the fact that a lot of it stems from selling etc but just like alcohol can incite violence, so can drugs.

A close minded child may do that, a close minded adult would just turn a blind eye to what they don't want to see and continue on down the same path as before the discussion.

LOL dude I just didn't feel like reading it, not because I didn't think it had any merit or because I thought it was "biased", just out of laziness.

Please don't take offense.

Chances are if they are adults and chose not to smoke then they won't like to smoke in the first place, no one is telling them to quit drinking in the same manner as people are telling pot heads to quit smoking. If legality and use go hand in hand then please explain countries where they have a lower usage rate than the US but it is fully legal for recreational use.

Countries where usage is lower= legal. It has been legal since the 70's in Amsterdam. That's quite a long time. The buzz has worn off and now its just something some people do at the local cafe.

We are not there yet.

We still will have hurdles to surpass and stigma's to lose.

Like I said, in time. That time has not arrived.

It was legal already in the past, all the way from before 1776 to the early 19th century, and when prohibition passed in the early 1900s illegal use skyrocketed prior legal use... This is fact.

Hence why there is violence and why we have so much more trouble with it then, say Amsterdam where it has not been outlawed in over 30 years.

I'll ask toycar about his problems related to usage, seems to me he is doing just fine along with a plethora of other closet smokers. In fact some states think it is not as problematic as you do and that is why it is now legal for recrational use.

Ok so I guess because Toycar can handle his shit, then there won't be any usage issues for the 318 million people in the US. Good to know lol.

Well drinking age use to be 18, also I believe it has been stated over and over again that it should be regulated on the same level as alcohol.

Your right, my appologies.

I never said it was worse or better, but that your information is far from factual. Plus as I linked earlier there is almost no link between marijuana and violence other than the violent people who are buying it and vending it on the streets.

My information is not far from factual, you just refuse to believe it because it doesn't support your arugment.

There is plenty of links between MJ and violence, I posted only one article.

There are others, Google is your friend.

[toycar]

Ralphie,



Thanks for posting that man! No need to apologize or anything like that. No hard/hurt feelings on my side at all.




I really do think employers should have a zero tolerance. I also think we have a lot more in common with our feelings about this than maybe the first half dozen pages indicate.


lol




Im all for shit being legal, but that doesn't change the fact that we smokers have a responsibility to stand up and show the rest of the world that its ok.


Not to encourage them to start smoking, but to stop judging us for smoking.


All the fears and crazy nonesense is pretty damaging to the progress of the conversation not to mention it seriously drives a wedge in between non smokers and smokers. Like we can't be friends or something because I smoke weed.


It is really hard to hear some of the crazy shit people think we(potheads)will do if it becomes legal and it blows me away when people say this shit as if it doesn't already happen.

[Ralphie]

Most violence related to marijuana is often associated with the illegality of it (dealers, non-paying customers, etc...)

However, due to the fact that, like alcohol, marijuana DOES alter your state of mind... violence IS a possible outcome. Generally, marijuana mellows people out, but so does alcohol. Still, violent behavior as associated with marijuana is a pretty weak argument against the legalization of it. That argument can be made against television, video games, and music as well.



I do want to thank you guys for keeping it civil. I don't think we've ever had a thread about a controversial topic make it to 8 pages without people getting banned, and the thread being locked.
A discussion like this proves that perhaps this community IS capable of having an intelligent conversation.

I do ask that it remain civil.

Hell ya man, so far so good!

Im not really surprised though.

It's really only Toy, Bill, Me, and Scott.

Id say out of those 4, im the one who probably gets carried away the most, but ive been keeping it cool.

No reason to get upset anyway, just sharing ideas and opinions.

[Ralphie]

Ralphie,



Thanks for posting that man! No need to apologize or anything like that. No hard/hurt feelings on my side at all.




I really do think employers should have a zero tolerance. I also think we have a lot more in common with our feelings about this than maybe the first half dozen pages indicate.


lol




Im all for shit being legal, but that doesn't change the fact that we smokers have a responsibility to stand up and show the rest of the world that its ok.


Not to encourage them to start smoking, but to stop judging us for smoking.


All the fears and crazy nonesense is pretty damaging to the progress of the conversation not to mention it seriously drives a wedge in between non smokers and smokers. Like we can't be friends or something because I smoke weed.


It is really hard to hear some of the crazy shit people think we(potheads)will do if it becomes legal and it blows me away when people say this shit as if it doesn't already happen.

Ya I mean there is nothing to fear about it.

It's not like if it becomes legal, people are going to turn into pot zombies and start decapitating people and fucking their throats.


There will be some uprising, there will be some problems.

Some will be angry, especially when someone kills someone high.

The majority of people will move on with their lives.


And eventually it will be a thing of the past.

[wildBill83]

For every 1 study that states mj is linked to violence directly there are 10 that say otherwise. I posted one earlier you seem to keep missing.

It also appears that you agree that the prohibition is linked to the violence more than marijuana usage. There were no violence problems or addiction problems until it was deemed illegal. It was not deemed illegal becuase of those problems, but making it illegal produced the black market for it and those problems are linked directly to the black market.

Also not every country where mj is legal has been that way for 30+ years, some european countries only recently declared it legal and their crime rate has dropped nearly immediately.

No not everyone can handle their shit, same goes for drinkers. This is why we have a penal system and prisons.

[toycar]

No reason to get upset anyway, just sharing ideas and opinions.

Hell yeah, and I appreciate that!!



Not too often that breaking through the barrier happens without people taking shit personally.


I for one have learned from this conversation, and I hope others have maybe learned a thing or two from my very honest responses.


All too often smokers lie about shit to hide their habit, which only perpetuates the problem of missinformation and BS.


Speaking up often forces us into a stereotype, and I appreciate that hasn't happened in this conversation.

I am willing to be wrong, and I am very willing to listen.


I am also willing to be honest, and I appreciate that you guys have listened and have been honest as well.

You guys make some very valid points. This is a very broad topic. This is exactly the kind of conversation that needs to happen more to bridge the gap in my opinion.

[Ralphie]

To be clear, I don't think we will see a full 50 state Legalization in our lifetime.

I believe that only some states will come aboard.

All 50....Idk....but if so, not for a long time.

[toycar]

Its hard saying if all 50 will adopt it or not.



When alcohol became legal again it all started with one state, and 10 years later all 50 had changed their position.

Some of the stories floating around think this years election was the equivalent of that first state in the alcohol situation.



Who knows. Glad its being talked about. 15 years ago I would've laughed at anyone claiming MJ could be legal or used as medicine.

[wildBill83]

To be clear, I don't think we will see a full 50 state Legalization in our lifetime.

I believe that only some states will come aboard.

All 50....Idk....but if so, not for a long time.

I have to disagree, I would say within 12 years there will be a drop of the federal mandate that mj is a sch. 1 drug. It will just have to be proven by the states that have legalized and they will also have to show that the benefits outweigh the fears. Every 2 years you will now see new states voting on it now.

Personally I feel prohibition of any sort does nothing but create a divide in the public and a place for negative influences to be brought in and have a foot hold.

As toycar, I enjoy a good debate. Hopefully no offense was taken.

[deevergote]

I think we'll see it in our lifetime.

We may not see overall acceptance the way alcohol is accepted, but I think we'll see legalization.

[Ralphie]

For every 1 study that states mj is linked to violence directly there are 10 that say otherwise. I posted one earlier you seem to keep missing.

It also appears that you agree that the prohibition is linked to the violence more than marijuana usage. There were no violence problems or addiction problems until it was deemed illegal. It was not deemed illegal becuase of those problems, but making it illegal produced the black market for it and those problems are linked directly to the black market.

Also not every country where mj is legal has been that way for 30+ years, some european countries only recently declared it legal and their crime rate has dropped nearly immediately.

No not everyone can handle their shit, same goes for drinkers. This is why we have a penal system and prisons.

I didn't miss it at all, I checked it out.

It is valid and makes good points.

Still does not mean violence and drug use do not go hand in hand.

As I said already, the majority of that violence is because of the black market, because of the prohibition, because of the drug sale/trade.

When it becomes legal, and the need for the back market goes away, so will the majority of the violence.

That still does not mean that people won't become violent while they are under the influence of ANY drug, legal or not.

It could be someones first time smoking, or a veteran that just loses his shit and happens to be high.

So many variable.

I totally agree and understand that prohibiton came first and because of it, created the drug trade market.

Im with you on that.

And im not trying to say that MJ is evil and everyone who uses it is violent.

I used it full time, multiple times a day from 15-20.....not once did I have a problem with the law or any violent issues.

Its just different for everyone dude.