Who owns a shop?

[theSOB]

I'm looking for a change. I've been going to school for architectural engineering for a few years now but I don't feel like I enjoy it like I thought I would. With an engineering degree, my dream job would be to create and aftermarket company like skunk2 that would design parts and do testing to make sure it made power. That seems pretty far-fetched and I'm losing my passion for engineering. I feel like my true passion is just simply cars. So I ask, who owns their own shop? What path did you take? Do you have a business degree or anything else? What would you suggest me to do if I was planning on opening a shop? Anything you would do different? Any advice is appreciated, I just need a change and need people to talk to about this. Thanks everyone!

[BurtonRiderT6]

First thing you will need to do is get certified. Nobody would want you working on their rides if you don't have paperwork. You might be able to take out a small business loan to get started but with out the certifications I don't see it being an easy task. Maybe you could open up as a small specialty shop (tires, brakes, mufflers, etc.) I'm not sure about your state and city but if you're required to have inspection stickers you may be able to throw that in there. Just remember, whether leasing or buying an area to start up shop that location is key. I don't own a shop but those are my words of advice just based on what I would do if I was going to open up a shop. (Which I would love to do, if I had better knowledge of the trade)

[wed3k]

i don't own the shop yet but hopefully within ten years. (Automotive Machining, european speciality)

background:
HS diploma
college credits
ASE in cylinder head machining
smog license

nobody asks for a paperwork background but we have really good reputation and thats what it is all about.

[deevergote]

Honestly, you don't need any paperwork at all to own your own shop.
We've all heard about Bisimoto's background in engineering, but has anyone actually asked to see proof of it? I don't doubt it, and I've participated in discussions with the man that were proof enough... but still, I never saw, nor asked to see, any paperwork.

The key to operating a successful aftermarket company is more in marketing than it is in actual product design. Look at some of the more successful companies that we often deal with:

OBX and Megan Racing - Grouped together, because they followed the same path. Both are copycat companies, designing nothing on their own. Both developed decent reputations for making a wide range acceptable-quality products for a wide range of vehicles, and doing so at budget prices. Back when this site first started, we laughed at anyone with OBX parts, as they were "ebay" parts... and Megan Racing didn't even have a presence here, if they even existed at all.
Now, the OBX LSD (a Quaife copy, I believe) is actually respected. The Megan Racing full coilover systems are also respected (I've heard that they're direct copies of the Tanabe Sustec system, made in the same factory... but I've never proven this.)
I still don't give them much credit in terms of product development, but I give them a hell of a lot of credit in terms of business and marketing plans.

Skunk2 - made a name for themselves as a decent tuning house. Got a very good reputation for having fantastic camshafts (the only Skunk2 part I would ever consider would be their H22 cams.) The parts that they've really put a LOT of engineering time into are clear. Most are for Civics and Integras, it seems, as those are their primary focus on the racetrack. They make up much of their profit with "throwaway items", like their sub-par Accord suspension systems. Their suspension components for our cars are on par with "ebay" parts. The Skunk2 name sells them, and they reap the profits.
This is an example of a company that has a limited amount of offerings, for a limited market (only certain cars get their full attention), but they round it out with generic items.

Bisimoto - Like Skunk2, Bisi made a name for himself on the track, and picked a very focused niche. He focused SOLELY on the F22A (well, not totally... he did great things with the D series as well, but the F22A is what really brought him into the spotlight.) He made a name for himself by extracting a buttload of power from a carb'd F22A, N/A. Something nobody has ever done, or at least not anyone that has been noticed. Was he the first to discover that the F22A head had great flow capabilities? No. I've heard that long ago, but I ignored it... because the guy I heard it from ran a high 13 with just headwork and a cam... not THAT impressive. But with Bisi running 11s, then 10s, and now 9s... NOW it's impressive.
Bisi chose a motor that is easy to find, cheap to buy, and fits in some of the most abundant (and affordable) cars available. A fantastic start, but with such a limited focus (especially when it's a cheap motor, going into cheap cars), he had to expand his offerings. The Bisimoto store grew very quickly soon after he opened it. They now offer parts for Porsche, as well as damn near every Honda. Much of it is "Bisimoto-spec" parts from other companies, which is a smart approach. Bisi doesn't "make" anything. He provides the specific details and has it all made by people with the proper equipment.

One other approach would be like companies such as Spoon, Racing Beat, AMG (only recently an official part of Mercedes Benz... they were independent previously.) Focus on ONE make. Become an expert. This takes a VERY long time, and usually requires extensive participation in motorsports events. That gets pricey.

The Bisimoto design is one of the smarter ways of approaching things if you have some knowledge and ability to design parts. However, unless you get yourself on the radar with something unique (as Bisi did with the carb'd F22A in an Insight... 3 things that are uncommon in the Honda racing circuit) then you'll never make it. Actually racing, and promoting the hell out of yourself, is going to get you there much faster.
Keep in mind, you'll need a hell of an ego. YOU have to think you're the shit before anyone else will. You can only fake it so much. You actually have to believe that you are the shit.

[wed3k]

fuck racing, racing doesn't make money.

building race engines don't make any money because too much time is spent blue printing the motor.

hence, being a speciality in antique or a niche market (aka old european) you can charge a premium. our latest claim to fame was a motor for a 300sl. the car and the traveling trailer was worth 1.25mil

[deevergote]

Big picture, Wes... Racing draws attention. Racing is marketing.

[wed3k]

lol, how many companies are actually making money nowadays. comp cams is a big player but half thier stuff is imported so of course they can make money.

plus, running a shop is different from R&D'in products.

id rather fix blown headgaskets and do audi timing belts but it is only because im good at it. some other people are good with design and engineering.

FYI: 2 week turn around for R&R 22re in a 85 pickup. my boss and i come up 3k later with only about 500 dollars invested in parts....we're talking side money and during the day the shop is up and fully functional. Tell me where the money is at?

[Accrdwgnguy]

OP, stay in school. Being a tech is great but its hard labor, and you gotta work for years to make the big bucks. An engineering degree will get you a 40 - 50k job straight out of school, if you know what you are doing.

[theSOB]

Thanks for the great advice guys. Sounds like its more plausible to own a shop than trying to develop parts without a reputation. Which would u see as more important in starting a shop? Being certified or having a business degree?

[BurtonRiderT6]

I say being certified as I doubt he plans to START a shop making 300+hp motors and what not. Not everyone needs a performance shop but, a lot of people need repair shops for when their cars have problems. Thats why I say to get certified. You can only make so much money with the performance cars since it's NOT everyones NEEDS. They do NEED a car to get them from A to B, that's all I was getting at with the certifications.

[wed3k]

id suggest get both if you can swing it. the certifications are great and all but theyre plenty of people that have certs and can't handle a wrench.

people skills and the ability to manage money

[dhill_cb7]

Man you have to do what makes you happy first. That is the path i am taking, while i learn as much as i can about the cb and other cars. I am currently pursuing a business degree at WCU and only have two years left there. I also would like to either own a shop or go into the auto business. I LOVE NUMBERS AND MATH, yep i said it, MATH.

I would have no problem running the financial portion of the business but the knowledge and experience is what i lack at this point. I am going to reiterate to do WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY, and if you are tired of engineering then get into the auto scene.

My cousin has one year left of the marine corp and he will be going to school, under that bill for the armed forces, to become a certified tech and he wants to open a business with me. Who knows if that will fall into place but hey i have two years left anyway. Anything can happen between now and then.

Good luck with your decision man and i hope everything works out for the best.

[ChIoVnIdCa]

I wouldn't waste your time with the performance crap. I have a shop but only do it part time... I have a high paying job with benefits that is relatively low stress..

As far as school I went for something else that I don't do (electrician), I am recently ASE... (didn't go to school for it, I took the test and meet the experience) ASE is mostly b/s btw... But people like it.

The ultimate/end game for me is to handle the business and have employees to handle the labor side.

The jobs you want are replacing parts, engines, clutch, trans, timing, and head gaskets... Troubleshooting sometimes works out but you can also end up with either no profit or a pissed customer when you charge by the book... Oil changes you need to quote at near loss/waste of time if you want to do them, if you are busy enough fawk them and quote profitable. I don't even deal with cheap people.. Let them go to the lowest quote, if they end worse off quote higher to fix the damage the hack did. But I put myself in a position that I am not desperate.

Start small with NO LOANS... My shop is too small now, but that is better than too big without the money to back it.

[red07frontier]

Like Wes said, you need to just see if you like working on cars for a living. Trust me its way different that fixing your own car. some shops like ase certs but most care more about your skill level. I dont have any certs at all and have done everything from a frame swap on a brand new Chevy truck to head gaskets on a newer range rover. I can fix anything and am fast about it. its just what I know. Ive seen more techs come through with certs and all that take 2 days to do a timing belt job. As I said though, its totally different working on cars for a job. Its not fun and I would suggest trying it out before you commit to changing everything.

[deevergote]

lol, how many companies are actually making money nowadays. comp cams is a big player but half thier stuff is imported so of course they can make money.

plus, running a shop is different from R&D'in products.

Yeah, but the OP is asking about starting a company that designs parts, like Skunk2, not a speed shop... unless I'm misunderstanding. The title is a bit misleading compared to the body of the original post. A "shop" tends to either sell other people's parts, or perform installations and modifications on-site.


a company that actually designs and manufactures parts is much more difficult to get off the ground, sadly.