Homeless man beaten to death by police

[owequitit]

My comment was in more of a satirical vein... race never becomes an issue unless it's a "minority" that gets killed.

From the information I've read in the reports, these cops definitely need to pay.
Sadly, doing the work that I do, I see a LOT of the "underbelly" of society. Although I don't condone what these guys did, or any abuse by police officers, I can understand how seeing the shit day in and day out can color their view of the world, and severely lessen their tolerance of it. There are times where I have to mentally slap myself to keep from making stupid, unreasonable, prejudicial assumptions about people.

I had to sit through a dinner the other week where I was specifically told by the guest speaker of honor that I was not "diverse" because I was "white." What kind of bullshit is that? Tell me a double standard doesn't exist...

Probably more of a hate crime (hate crime doesn't have to be racial) than be racial motivated.

There's not as much coverage on this as other heated topics.

Now, if, and I state if, evidence surface which showed that the guy being white was the reason for the attack, then I'd say there'd be a racial issue involved. However, there's not. It's not like the video shows the Hispanic or Italian officer saying, "this __________ (fill in the blank with some derogatory word for a person who is considered white)", in a negative fashion as other events.

As far as I know from reading, the cops involved used excessive force. They had a report of a man vandalizing some property, responded, and beat him.

On another note, it's fucked up that shit like this still happens.

No offense, but the reality is that in the vast majority of "hate" crimes, slurs are never spoken. The absence or presence of slurs neither proves, nor disproves, the existence of racial motivation. People may say nothing at all even though they are racist to the bone, or they may shout slurs in the heat of the heat of the moment, even if they aren't rooted in racial origin. You have absolutely no knowlege of what motivated anything, nor does anybody else. Unless the cops come straight out and say "we killed him because he was white" (which we both know they won't). then there is no way to know.

Besides, a hate crime is a hate crime. It doesn't matter what motivates it, who perpetuated it, who received it, what it was for etc. That is all just diversionary fluff.

Also, just to use a real world example of a bit of hypocrisy on YOUR part, I find it funny that you are basically trying to pass this off as no big deal after the feather ruffling, tirade having fit you threw on this board about Trevyon Martin a few weeks ago, when there wasn't necessarily any more proof that it was racially motivated...

[deevergote]

I had to sit through a dinner the other week where I was specifically told by the guest speaker of honor that I was not "diverse" because I was "white." What kind of bullshit is that? Tell me a double standard doesn't exist...

"reverse racism"
Because racism is something only white people do!

No offense, but the reality is that in the vast majority of "hate" crimes, slurs are never spoken. The absence or presence of slurs neither proves, nor disproves, the existence of racial motivation. People may say nothing at all even though they are racist to the bone, or they may shout slurs in the heat of the heat of the moment, even if they aren't rooted in racial origin. You have absolutely no knowlege of what motivated anything, nor does anybody else. Unless the cops come straight out and say "we killed him because he was white" (which we both know they won't). then there is no way to know.

Besides, a hate crime is a hate crime. It doesn't matter what motivates it, who perpetuated it, who received it, what it was for etc. That is all just diversionary fluff.

Exactly.
And just because someone utters a racial slur before an unfortunate altercation ensues doesn't necessarily mean the resulting death of one individual was due to his race.
Hate crimes don't have to be declared, and a racial bias (or an utterance said in a momentary lapse of judgment) isn't necessarily a "hatred".










I really just meant my "this is a hate crime" comment as a tongue in cheek joke... but it does bring up a good point. The media created such a stir about the "racially motivated" killing of Trayvon Martin, even when only a fraction of the facts had been released. Was it racially motivated? Who knows. Maybe. Maybe not. But the media decided it was, because it would draw attention... and draw attention it did.
But a homeless white guy killed by a Hispanic cop? That racial combination doesn't interest anyone. If you notice, I'm not even mentioning the Italian cop, because by most definitions, he is "white" (my friend once told me that Italians are not "white", and that confused me...) White on white? Who cares? Unless they're rich or famous.
It's not going to create a stir, so the media doesn't care. Therefore, the general public doesn't care. They're more concerned with "cop" and "homeless" and "handicapped". Those are the buzz words here.

[owequitit]

"reverse racism"
Because racism is something only white people do!

He did at least give credit to "some old white guy" who made it possible for him to go school. That was after the 10 minutes of roasting white men took for apparently having a total void of history or culture. Apparently, none of my persecuted German, Italian, Native American or British ancestors had to endure any such nonsense since they had "white" skin. It is just total bullshit, and it is a huge fundamental core of a huge fundamental problem in our "American" society (where it is OK to be anything but a straight, white, male).

[deevergote]

I find that Mel Brooks movies put things into great perspective.

[owequitit]

I find that Mel Brooks movies put things into great perspective.

Mel Brooks movies do so many things so well.

"I'm a Mog! Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend!"

[Straight Success]

You were correct about one thing, Scott. Racial tension is more hidden than spoken, to paraphrase your thoughts. I personally experience this while in school at the present. I really don't need to go into details as I'm too tired to debate. The rest you are ignorant about because you never walked in anyone else's shoes. You can only go off of what you see and read, and the same goes for Mike and myself as well. You don't/can't understand what some people experience. We are all in different parts of the country involved with different classes, clusters of racial groups, bias, stereotypes, etc.

To reiterate, what is sooooo damn suspicious about a man walking through a gated community in the rain with a hood on?

I can tell you what raises concern when police receive a call about vandalizing property. Was the color of his skin a factor? I have the slightest, nor do any of you. For all we know, the officers weren't getting laid at home.

The older I get, the more I see how ignorant the world can be. I very rarely use the N-word, but was called it by someone of Asian decent recently. Did they mean it in a negative way? Probably not, and if it wasn't for having an understanding of language barriers and ignorance, I would've gotten upset.

Change of pace to get back on topic, does racism exist? I'm sure it probably does, but it's hidden and subtle. I think for most of America we've passed a huge point that now suggests everybody comes together during needed times. Things are probably more class basis if anything (and this probably isn't the case for most of America after what we've been through for the last few years).

[8ball]

Homeless people should be routinely checked on, there was a girl that was raped and stabbed by a hobo and left to die in a dumpster last week.

List of types I hate

Beggars: People that are to damn lazy to do anything but ask for a hand out, that is usually a African or European descendant. I've never once been asked for change or anything from a hispanic, or a middle eastern think about that. Who's really a threat to the economy ?

Druggies: People that knowingly were told to not use substances that could cause a dependency, yet after they become hooked they do what ever to get a fix.
And this of course creates jobs for cops and mayhem for civilians all because some one couldn't say no. You can blame the dealer but the demand for drugs will just increase.

Under Cover Racist: These are people that pretend that they are not evil on the inside and have absolutely no bias in race. Its bull shit! Everyone is biased towards their own race. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your own race but when you take it from pride to hate towards others thats a big difference.


Any way the homeless dude came from a good family, assuming he was raised by his dad and his dad had cop morals (BAHWHAHAHA) why would he deliberately live as a hobo? Scum thats why.

And the treyvon martin shit, man the dude should sit in jail for a while but also the treyvon wasnt exactly 8years old how that picture they put up was. He was 17 almost an adult and Im sure he was no angel and more than likely was a rude fuck. Fuck it one less shit bag my taxes are paying for live off of government help. Now we ALL have to pay to keep zimmerman in jail. smdh..

[deevergote]

To reiterate, what is sooooo damn suspicious about a man walking through a gated community in the rain with a hood on?

I can tell you what raises concern when police receive a call about vandalizing property.

In a neighborhood that was regularly burglarized recently, a kid walking around at night with his hood up looks mighty suspicious. When that kid runs, it's even more suspicious.
See, you're already assuming Martin's death was racially motivated. To you, that might as well be complete fact.

A homeless guy vandalizing property. What was he doing, exactly?
Just because the one "minority" cop didn't drop a racial slur when he was participating in the man's beating, how can you say with certainty that it wasn't racially motivated?

Homeless people should be routinely checked on, there was a girl that was raped and stabbed by a hobo and left to die in a dumpster last week.

List of types I hate

Beggars: People that are to damn lazy to do anything but ask for a hand out, that is usually a African or European descendant. I've never once been asked for change or anything from a hispanic, or a middle eastern think about that. Who's really a threat to the economy ?

Druggies: People that knowingly were told to not use substances that could cause a dependency, yet after they become hooked they do what ever to get a fix.
And this of course creates jobs for cops and mayhem for civilians all because some one couldn't say no. You can blame the dealer but the demand for drugs will just increase.

Under Cover Racist: These are people that pretend that they are not evil on the inside and have absolutely no bias in race. Its bull shit! Everyone is biased towards their own race. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your own race but when you take it from pride to hate towards others thats a big difference.


Any way the homeless dude came from a good family, assuming he was raised by his dad and his dad had cop morals (BAHWHAHAHA) why would he deliberately live as a hobo? Scum thats why.

And the treyvon martin shit, man the dude should sit in jail for a while but also the treyvon wasnt exactly 8years old how that picture they put up was. He was 17 almost an adult and Im sure he was no angel and more than likely was a rude fuck. Fuck it one less shit bag my taxes are paying for live off of government help. Now we ALL have to pay to keep zimmerman in jail. smdh..

Hating people based on assumptions and generalizations seems to be what this country is founded on.

[toycar]

You were correct about one thing, Scott. Racial tension is more hidden than spoken, to paraphrase your thoughts. I personally experience this while in school at the present. I really don't need to go into details as I'm too tired to debate. The rest you are ignorant about because you never walked in anyone else's shoes. You can only go off of what you see and read, and the same goes for Mike and myself as well. You don't/can't understand what some people experience. We are all in different parts of the country involved with different classes, clusters of racial groups, bias, stereotypes, etc.

To reiterate, what is sooooo damn suspicious about a man walking through a gated community in the rain with a hood on?

I can tell you what raises concern when police receive a call about vandalizing property. Was the color of his skin a factor? I have the slightest, nor do any of you. For all we know, the officers weren't getting laid at home.

The older I get, the more I see how ignorant the world can be. I very rarely use the N-word, but was called it by someone of Asian decent recently. Did they mean it in a negative way? Probably not, and if it wasn't for having an understanding of language barriers and ignorance, I would've gotten upset.

Change of pace to get back on topic, does racism exist? I'm sure it probably does, but it's hidden and subtle. I think for most of America we've passed a huge point that now suggests everybody comes together during needed times. Things are probably more class basis if anything (and this probably isn't the case for most of America after what we've been through for the last few years).

Im not trying to fuel a debate, but based on your assumption that "We have never walked in someone elses shoes" and "People like Mike and I" make me feel like you are oblivious to the fact that white people are subjected to a racial pretense 7/10 times with other races. I think Mike was eluding to the idea that he deals with so much racism, that at times it could influence his rational thinking and he has to keep himself in check about it. I am with Owequitit on this issue, and I think you are wrong.


You act like you dont understand that white people are subjected to the same type of racism as black people or mexicans. Owequitit gave a perfect example of being dicked around for being white, and I think that is bullshit and also have been in the exact same situation before.

I am and have been a minority PLENTY in my life, but so many people of other races are close minded to the idea that WHITE people are subjected to the same racism as anyone else. In my opinion it is often times worse because some people of color act like they have a pass to act racist, because they are a minority and "You dont know what Ive been through"


I could carry on about how at one point I was the only white kid in my school, about growing up in LA and getting shot when I was 12. I was beaten down 25-30 times for being white between 5th and 7th grade, while living in LA. I still had black and mexican friends my whole life. I am very familiar with racism and other cultures.

The thing is, no matter how much "relating" or giving examples of how us white people are subjected to racism, most generally people of other races could give a shit and they really are not interested in hearing where we are coming from. They would much rather carry on with life thinking that somehow they are the only ones dealing with racism and they are the victim.

That white people "Just dont understand"

[toycar]

In a neighborhood that was regularly burglarized recently, a kid walking around at night with his hood up looks mighty suspicious. When that kid runs, it's even more suspicious.
See, you're already assuming Martin's death was racially motivated. To you, that might as well be complete fact.

A homeless guy vandalizing property. What was he doing, exactly?
Just because the one "minority" cop didn't drop a racial slur when he was participating in the man's beating, how can you say with certainty that it wasn't racially motivated?

I agree.

Homeless guy was reported "looking into cars" and trying to lift the handles.


In my opinion, he was going to steal something if given the chance, or more likely looking for a place to sleep.

[deevergote]

I agree.

Homeless guy was reported "looking into cars" and trying to lift the handles.


In my opinion, he was going to steal something if given the chance, or more likely looking for a place to sleep.

Or a car to have a giant homeless orgy in!









The point is, we can't be too quick to judge based on limited reports. We can't claim to know what someone was thinking when they did what they did.

Here's a personal example: When I was 18, I was walking my girlfriend back to her vacation trailer in the campground her parents were staying in. On the way back to the car, some kid about my age shined a laser pointer right in my eyes. I was an artist at the time, planning on pursuing that as a career, and I need my eyes! I got pissed, grabbed the kid by the shirt, and said "you do NOT shine that shit in my eyes, boy!" I shoved him away, and continued along my path.
The kid was black. A white guy calling a black guy "boy" is usually considered a racial slur. Did I mean it in a racist way? No. I honestly didn't even realize he was black, nor did I care. But what if I hit him and killed him unintentionally? One punch CAN do that... would I be put away for committing a hate crime?
(it turns out that when I grabbed him, I snapped his gold chain... he was too much of a puss to chase me himself, or with his friend... so he got his 6'5 linebacker of a cousin to chase me down. Cousin caught me, held me by the arms, and the kid with the laser pointer hit me while I was restrained... coward. I ran, because I wasn't taking on 2 boys and a giant!)

[toycar]

Or a car to have a giant homeless orgy in!









The point is, we can't be too quick to judge based on limited reports. We can't claim to know what someone was thinking when they did what they did.

Here's a personal example: When I was 18, I was walking my girlfriend back to her vacation trailer in the campground her parents were staying in. On the way back to the car, some kid about my age shined a laser pointer right in my eyes. I was an artist at the time, planning on pursuing that as a career, and I need my eyes! I got pissed, grabbed the kid by the shirt, and said "you do NOT shine that shit in my eyes, boy!" I shoved him away, and continued along my path.
The kid was black. A white guy calling a black guy "boy" is usually considered a racial slur. Did I mean it in a racist way? No. I honestly didn't even realize he was black, nor did I care. But what if I hit him and killed him unintentionally? One punch CAN do that... would I be put away for committing a hate crime?
(it turns out that when I grabbed him, I snapped his gold chain... he was too much of a puss to chase me himself, or with his friend... so he got his 6'5 linebacker of a cousin to chase me down. Cousin caught me, held me by the arms, and the kid with the laser pointer hit me while I was restrained... coward. I ran, because I wasn't taking on 2 boys and a giant!)

I think people have become predictable in their reaction with racism. That behavior, being too sensitive about racism, only allows racism to thrive.

Being predictable allows the media to dictate perception and fuel shit out of control when it isn't really needed.

[Straight Success]

In a neighborhood that was regularly burglarized recently, a kid walking around at night with his hood up looks mighty suspicious. When that kid runs, it's even more suspicious. NOt when the reason he's running is because a stranger is following him. Shit, I would've ran too. You probably would so the same if you were being followed. Either that or call the cops yourself. As a defense mechanism, the first reaction is to run away from danger.
See, you're already assuming Martin's death was racially motivated. To you, that might as well be complete fact. I would say it was more of racial profiling after he realized Martin was black, and I'm quoting the words of Zimmerman, "These asshole always get away. Fucking Coons!" He kept following him with that mentality, even after instructed not to. That's racial profiling. I don't care how anyone on this board slices it.



A homeless guy vandalizing property. What was he doing, exactly?
Just because the one "minority" cop didn't drop a racial slur when he was participating in the man's beating, how can you say with certainty that it wasn't racially motivated? Answered by toycar.

Also, I never said it wasn't racially motivated. I clearly said I don't have all the facts, so I do not know why it happened. I think it was just bad judgement that led to a tragedy. I don't think from the reports and video that the cop's intentions weren't to kill the homeless guy. That's why manslaughter is being considered as a charge.



Hating people based on assumptions and generalizations seems to be what this country is founded on. Not for everyone. However this trend didn't start with any minorities. History shows that, and it's not my intention to point the finger. This country was found on greed and theft, and hate. It all started with Columbus.

Im not trying to fuel a debate, but based on your assumption that "We have never walked in someone elses shoes" and "People like Mike and I" make me feel like you are oblivious to the fact that white people are subjected to a racial pretense 7/10 times with other races. It's very possible. I am aware of this because I come from a mixed family; both white and black. I think Mike was eluding to the idea that he deals with so much racism, that at times it could influence his rational thinking and he has to keep himself in check about it. I am with Owequitit on this issue, and I think you are wrong. Call it what you want. I've seen white people get hated towards attributable to their skin color. When I see it, I still have the same attitude that it's fucked up. I feel that way for any race that is hated on because of their differences. I'm all for equality and the differences in the world. It's a shame that others don't think like that, and don't see how the BS continues.


You act like you dont understand that white people are subjected to the same type of racism as black people or mexicans. Owequitit gave a perfect example of being dicked around for being white, and I think that is bullshit and also have been in the exact same situation before. I wasn't there, but it's fucked up. The same goes with a white professor telling me to my face that Ican't be the president of Temple's FSAE because I'm black! That's a lot worse than Scott's case, and I'm not even going to dwell on it.

I am and have been a minority PLENTY in my life, but so many people of other races are close minded to the idea that WHITE people are subjected to the same racism as anyone else. In my opinion it is often times worse because some people of color act like they have a pass to act racist, because they are a minority and "You dont know what Ive been through"


I could carry on about how at one point I was the only white kid in my school, about growing up in LA and getting shot when I was 12. I was beaten down 25-30 times for being white between 5th and 7th grade, while living in LA. I still had black and mexican friends my whole life. I am very familiar with racism and other cultures.

The thing is, no matter how much "relating" or giving examples of how us white people are subjected to racism, most generally people of other races could give a shit and they really are not interested in hearing where we are coming from. They would much rather carry on with life thinking that somehow they are the only ones dealing with racism and they are the victim.

That white people "Just dont understand"

I agree.

Homeless guy was reported "looking into cars" and trying to lift the handles.


In my opinion, he was going to steal something if given the chance, or more likely looking for a place to sleep.

Or a car to have a giant homeless orgy in!









The point is, we can't be too quick to judge based on limited reports. We can't claim to know what someone was thinking when they did what they did. Exactly. I didn't do that here. During the Martin ordeal, I heard enough to realize what happened.

Here's a personal example: When I was 18, I was walking my girlfriend back to her vacation trailer in the campground her parents were staying in. On the way back to the car, some kid about my age shined a laser pointer right in my eyes. I was an artist at the time, planning on pursuing that as a career, and I need my eyes! I got pissed, grabbed the kid by the shirt, and said "you do NOT shine that shit in my eyes, boy!" I shoved him away, and continued along my path.
The kid was black. A white guy calling a black guy "boy" is usually considered a racial slur. Did I mean it in a racist way? No. I honestly didn't even realize he was black, nor did I care. But what if I hit him and killed him unintentionally? One punch CAN do that... would I be put away for committing a hate crime?
(it turns out that when I grabbed him, I snapped his gold chain... he was too much of a puss to chase me himself, or with his friend... so he got his 6'5 linebacker of a cousin to chase me down. Cousin caught me, held me by the arms, and the kid with the laser pointer hit me while I was restrained... coward. I ran, because I wasn't taking on 2 boys and a giant!)

I think people have become predictable in their reaction with racism. That behavior, being too sensitive about racism, only allows racism to thrive.

Being predictable allows the media to dictate perception and fuel shit out of control when it isn't really needed.

I said it before, and this is the last time. I think it's more about class and economic position now-a-days. Does racism and hate exist? Where would the world be without it. I'm waiting to see. Until this happens, I'll sit back and have my opinions based on facts I'm provided with, and my personal experiences.

[toycar]

I think the "fucking coons" you hear on the audio has been added.

Seriously. It is so clear that is being said, more people would have publically jumped on that wagon if you ask me. I think politicians, Obama, the white house and all would have commented on that if it was verified as legit and unaltered.


Just a speculation, stranger things have happened.


I think there are people that want this to be a huge race issue and have gone to great lengths to provide the means to justify their feelings, even if some things have to be exaggerated to make that happen. That, and others profit greatly from the turmoil shit like this causes.


I also think the "voice analysis" was bullshit. If the FBI did it, they would be measuring the frequency in the tone's produced and create a voice signature.

The people that spoke out about this shit on the news claimed to have compared the 911 calls to the screaming for help-as if they would sound the same under any scenario.

im not saying it is definetly one way or the other, I just think the the real authorities, the FBI would get to the bottom of it. There would be no "in my opinion this doesnt sound like him" shit.

They would be like "do to our ridiculously extensive bunch of crap testing we came to the conclusion that blah blah blah happened"

End of debate you know, some real clarification. As long as this shit is argueable, people will argue about it. Thats just the way it is.

[Straight Success]

I personally think the race issues arises for minorities stems from the fact that people treated blacks like shit for so long, and what real reason? The negative black people (just like any negative people in any race), came from years of hatred and disgust that was fueled by negative America. It didn't happen over night. More like decades of hatred. It wont be corrected overnight either.