Discuss .........!

[LadyG]

Monica... I fed myself this entire week for $8. Healthy food. Veggies, grains, beans... enough that I was truly full by the time I finished dinner. All week, $8, and my shopping was done at a local supermarket (not the cheapest place around.) You can eat healthy even if you're poor.

You can eat healthy if your poor. It is not easy. I spend an average of 750 a month to feed a family of five. And while I try my damnedness, not everything I can buy with that 750 will be "whole" food. Sometimes it frozen pizza, sometimes its boxed. Not all of it, but if I were to feed my family a whole food diet (no processed food) I would be spending a g a month, easily. I go through a gal of milk a day, Mike, at almost $4 a gal.

The issue for a lot of people is currently is two-fold. 1) A LOT of poor people are single, working parents.
I did this job.
It sucked, hard.
You work 12 hours a day; never see your kids, go home at the end of the day-do homework (where applicable) and spend time, get tomorrow morning's prep work done, do laundry or clean, WOULD YOU wanna cook too? Shit no. It it a little lazy, yes. IBut it leads into the second fold of the issue...

2) That this poor woman (or man!) is most likely underemployed, paid at a rate that just disqualifies them for food assistance, and is also without health insurance.
SO MANY PEOPLE fall into this fold. And I think the root of both is in that we created a society demands an instantaneous return. Either work or food, entertainment, or politics- we want it now.
So Fast food will always exist, and to a certain degree be nessisary for as long as our culture drives it.
Europe doesn't have this problem, and I believe it is because they do things like "siesta" during the workday, and take all of August off. It allows them the psychological time that is nessisary to be able to think about what you eat. It means you might have the time to cook, or learn about what you're buying.

That's why we now have an "American-sized" VW Passat, that is different from the Passat offered in other countries. That is why when you go to Hong Kong, menus will say "Caution: American-sized portion".

This country is full of fat people. Education is what matters.

It does. But as I elaborated above, if your life is a "survival existence" and you do not have the TIME to be educated: It is only through truth in advertising that we could ensure these kinds of people could be educated. That is why GM should not be allowed to say 40% less sugar, when it is clearly NOT containing any less sweetener.

If our government is cracking down on tax-funded public school lunches, so be it. The government controls our tax money, and what it is used for. We control the government, so if you don't like it, get involved and change it!

I agree with that. Our tax money should be spent on the correct kinds of food for our children. Unfortunately, even the "heatly" lunches they are provided are about 85% processed food. If that food came from the locality of the school, instead of a factory a state away, then THAT would be a real vote for health.

Just because unhealthy foods are cheap, and that cheapness is a result of government subsidization, doesn't mean someone is "pulling the strings".

Um, sorry babe. Yes, it does.
Because this whole topic should make you ask, "whom does this really benefit?"

In fact, if demand increased for the healthier foods, prices may very well go down, as more companies would compete to provide the same products, driving down the price.

That would work, if that is what really happens. Small farmers and food producers (like Stoneybrooke Farms Organic Yogurt) are often bought by large Corps (like Kraft Foods in this case) and then they are just part of the machine. You are supporting the same company that dyes their cheese powder int their Mac n'Cheese, because it doesn't "look cheesy enough, as cheese alone".


Sorry for the long read. I tried to be concise.

[deevergote]

You make valid points... but that doesn't really change things all that much.
If a single parent is working 12 hours a day, I know they don't want to cook. I know I work 12-15 hours a day on occasion, and I sure as hell would LOVE to swing by the McDonald's half a mile away and pick up dinner! (sometimes I do...)

Still, there are options. Buying healthy food in bulk isn't terribly difficult or expensive. Greens, beans, starches, etc... Buying in bulk and cooking in bulk, freezing individual meals for busy days... also not difficult. Spending 2 hours on Saturday morning preparing frozen meals for the week isn't impossible, even with a very busy schedule. Popping a couple of those frozen meals in the microwave (which even the poorest of families seem to have these days) is no more difficult or time consuming than cooking a frozen pizza that's stuffed with processed ingredients and preservatives.
An expansion on that idea, especially in poor communities, is to organize a group of people to prepare meals together. It can increase the number of available ingredients, decrease the cooking time, and provide a support system (as it's easy to fall back into the "oh, I'll just pick up this pre-packaged cheap food" routine.)

Milk is actually just a big ol' glass o' fat. Humans aren't actually supposed to drink so much cow's milk as we do. It's just something we've grown accustomed to. Using water as a primary beverage will greatly increase health. Most Americans do not drink enough water.


The large corporations are preying on laziness, a lack of education, and a desire for food that tastes good based on an acquired taste for sugar and salt.
I have friends that have managed to stay away from such things, and they now say that most mainstream food tastes WAY too salty or sweet for their liking. Their tastes adapted, and now what was once mildly salty or sweet now tastes overwhelmingly so.






Right now, I'm snacking on potatoes. No salt, no butter. Just little finger-sized spuds that I bought for $2.50 (like, 7 servings' worth). Wash em, poke em, pop em in the nuke box for 3 minutes, and I have a healthy snack that tastes damn good, and is easy to eat.

[LadyG]

I see where you are coming from as well.

But where I feel I desire your consensus, is on the issue of the corporate welfare system. Corporations are profit driven, as a fact, that is their only prerogative.

I feel that if we are to address these concerns seriously, we would need to oust them from the process, by ending the symbiotic relationship with Gov Funding.

Welfare is as welfare does.

[deevergote]

Very true. And it's certainly no secret that the unhealthy food is often marketed directly to the low-income/welfare population. McDonald's advertises almost exclusively to black and hispanic people, especially in economically depressed areas (such as the areas I live and work in.) Those areas are largely populated by those two groups. The affluent areas rarely have such advertising. Sure, there are McD's stores in those areas, but the advertising is limited, and very general. There are no McD's billboards in the richy-rich areas that are geared specifically to the WASPs and Jewish populations that populate them (I mean no offense... that is the general demographic in my area, and is in no way intended to generalize any particular group, just illustrate the McDonald's advertising focus in the area.)


The evil corporations and the government moneybags are certainly concerned with cornering that market... but they aren't forcing anyone's hand. Making something cheap and available, and advertising it relentlessly, isn't forcing anyone to buy. It's pushing to the front of the line, sure... but a little education and self control will fix that. I've eaten cheaper this week, cooking healthy food for myself, than I have in the past few years... where I bought easy unhealthy food.

[Ralphie]

I decided to just delete my posts because apparently real conversation cannot exist on this forum, only fucking stupid gifs and comments.

[deevergote]

I decided to just delete my posts because apparently real conversation cannot exist on this forum, only fucking stupid gifs and comments.

It was becoming a pissing contest between you and HondaB18 regarding the definition of Freedom. VERY far from the topic at hand. If you're going to get involved in a conversation, at least argue about the topic being discussed. We can pull this argument in any direction we please (and Monica and I are coming close to doing just that... I'm trying to keep it focused.) Since Tomi has decided to risk the membership status of everyone involved in this thread by allowing it to remain, we might as well discuss the matter at hand, right? Maybe we won't get banned that way.

That's a much better discussion than a pissing contest between a former government desk jockey and an active duty veteran (though not combat duty.) I respect you both for your roles in this country's defense, and I respect you both as people and members of this site... but such a conversation is off the intended topic, and thoroughly unnecessary.





And if you think my contributions to this conversation are "stupid fucking comments" then please, contribute your own thoughts and ideas ABOUT THE TOPIC and demonstrate just how stupid I am.

[LadyG]

The evil corporations and the government moneybags are certainly concerned with cornering that market... but they aren't forcing anyone's hand. Making something cheap and available, and advertising it relentlessly, isn't forcing anyone to buy. It's pushing to the front of the line, sure... but a little education and self control will fix that. I've eaten cheaper this week, cooking healthy food for myself, than I have in the past few years... where I bought easy unhealthy food.

Mike, I hate to break it to you, but bachelors are not really subject to the same financial stresses as a person with a family.
I have had to tell my kids that they cannot have seconds, because there were not seconds to be had.
( I have taught my children to eat until full, but they are NEVER forced to "clean their plate", I feel forcing a child to eat when not hungry is creating a habit that will not serve them as an adult.) I have had to feed three on 85 bux a month. (if anyone wants to call bs, I could break down WHY it was so little)Thank Goodness for My family, just down the street. (At that point in time) I WAS forced to eat for less than a dollar every day, and sometimes only eating once.
Hands are forced. These people (who were like I was) just don't complain as much. They don't qualify for assistance, yet... they are a large utility bill away from food bank dependency.

They are people that often are ashamed of their situation, and don't talk about it. They do not want to be pitied. Often, they would like a better JOB rather than Welfare.

[deevergote]

Mike, I hate to break it to you, but bachelors are not really subject to the same financial stresses as a person with a family.
I have had to tell my kids that they cannot have seconds, because there were not seconds to be had.
( I have taught my children to eat until full, but they are NEVER forced to "clean their plate", I feel forcing a child to eat when not hungry is creating a habit that will not serve them as an adult.) I have had to feed three on 85 bux a month. (if anyone wants to call bs, I could break down WHY it was so little)Thank Goodness for My family, just down the street. (At that point in time) I WAS forced to eat for less than a dollar every day, and sometimes only eating once.
Hands are forced. These people (who were like I was) just don't complain as much. They don't qualify for assistance, yet... they are a large utility bill away from food bank dependency.

They are people that often are ashamed of their situation, and don't talk about it. They do not want to be pitied. Often, they would like a better JOB rather than Welfare.

I'm not saying people aren't in situations where it's difficult to feed a family... certainly not. I know better than to argue that with you!

But hands aren't forced to buy ONLY unhealthy food. There are options, even if they aren't the best options. The cheapest parts of my last few meals were the greens and the beans... the core nutrients of the meals. They may not have been the tastiest, but I could cook 8 meals or more with just $5-$6 using just those two things. Filling and healthy. Not all that time consuming to make.

I would also assume that if someone is limited on time because of a 12 hour a day job and children that they would have a bit of money to spend on food, it not a lot. You don't work 12 hours a day, even at minimum wage, and have nothing to show for it. Not unless there is some other unusual financial drain (such as a health concern with a child.) Then that changes things a bit... but it is the exception, not the norm.


I see people far too frequently in the areas I work... the truly financially depressed areas... where grossly obese people are walking down the street munching on fast food, bags of chips, or huge cups of soda (I have three specific examples that I've seen in the past week of these things...)
Do they not know any better? Do they just not care? Or are they forced to buy stuff from the dollar menu because a head of lettuce or a potato is too expensive for them?

[Ralphie]

And if you think my contributions to this conversation are "stupid fucking comments" then please, contribute your own thoughts and ideas ABOUT THE TOPIC and demonstrate just how stupid I am.

Im not referring to your comments, even though my response was in response to your comment.

Im referring to the trolls of this forum, who vomit their wasteful banter all over this place DAILY and while it doesn't go unnoticed, it is still allowed but when a serious conversation takes a deviation it is a problem.

Hence, why these topics are usually frowned upon.

And i was also surprised that even though i deviated with B18, i had a whole fucking page of useful comments on the previous page that only Tommi seemed to notice....or maybe there wasn't anything of substance idk.


Either way i miss the days of Owequitit who would come in to threads like these, turns things on their head, shut down the fucking idiots and actually pass along good ole knowledge.

[LadyG]

No. You're right there. Some people think it is someone elses job to think for them.

But, If you have a $9 an hour job, and rent is 650, and daycare is 400 a month, (and I was lucky then, it was 650 when I moved from the Small town to the city.) You have cell (before Metropcs) 100 a month, electric 120 (once I had everything on strips I could turn off when I left in the morning.)and car insurance (mandatory in Fl) 60.

360 a week before tax, is 1340 a month (after taxes).
1330 in total expenses leaves you ten bux.

Now I might be calculating taxes at 7% of income, but c'mon. I had a under the table waitress job at the time as well, but I lived in a town of 3,500 people, so that wasn't a "booming buisness".
But, I got through.

***My point is my ass was eating Ramen 5 days a week, and double cheeze for dinner, but the kids ate better than I did. That was my goal.

[LadyG]

Either way i miss the days of Owequitit who would come in to threads like these, turns things on their head, shut down the fucking idiots and actually pass along good ole knowledge.

He drowns you in posting.
Not my favorite person to have a discussion with, because it consists of trying to avoid the angry spittle flying at you, as he berates you in type.

[deevergote]

Im not referring to your comments, even though my response was in response to your comment.

Im referring to the trolls of this forum, who vomit their wasteful banter all over this place DAILY and while it doesn't go unnoticed, it is still allowed but when a serious conversation takes a deviation it is a problem.

Hence, why these topics are usually frowned upon.

And i was also surprised that even though i deviated with B18, i had a whole fucking page of useful comments on the previous page that only Tommi seemed to notice....or maybe there wasn't anything of substance idk.


Either way i miss the days of Owequitit who would come in to threads like these, turns things on their head, shut down the fucking idiots and actually pass along good ole knowledge.

I wasn't discounting your valid comments... merely addressing the deviation that had become hostile (and if you notice, I did so, and effectively put a stop to it, BEFORE I felt the need to ban anyone.) It's not the deviation as much as the hostility that I was concerned about. You guys were going at it about a topic that was barely relevant to the thread itself.

And owequitit's method of shutting down a thread usually just resulted in him pummeling people with such a large amount of information that they couldn't be bothered to fight back. He usually knows what he's talking about, and he knows how to learn information before he speaks about it, but it's no different than any other intelligent person does. In fact, his lengthy comments usually end up killing the thread because it becomes too cumbersome to keep up with all the reading!
I strive to do much the same as he does, only instead of battering everyone with facts, I attempt to stimulate a conversational exchange... and I try to keep my replies brief, saying only what I need to say on the topic (I could venture off into different, yet still applicable areas... but that would get far too lengthy.)

Scott definitely knows his stuff, but I agree with LadyG... he's difficult to have a discussion with, because of the sheer size of his posts, and the forcefulness with which he makes them.

[Ralphie]

I wasn't discounting your valid comments... merely addressing the deviation that had become hostile (and if you notice, I did so, and effectively put a stop to it, BEFORE I felt the need to ban anyone.) It's not the deviation as much as the hostility that I was concerned about. You guys were going at it about a topic that was barely relevant to the thread itself.

And owequitit's method of shutting down a thread usually just resulted in him pummeling people with such a large amount of information that they couldn't be bothered to fight back. He usually knows what he's talking about, and he knows how to learn information before he speaks about it, but it's no different than any other intelligent person does. In fact, his lengthy comments usually end up killing the thread because it becomes too cumbersome to keep up with all the reading!
I strive to do much the same as he does, only instead of battering everyone with facts, I attempt to stimulate a conversational exchange... and I try to keep my replies brief, saying only what I need to say on the topic (I could venture off into different, yet still applicable areas... but that would get far too lengthy.)

Scott definitely knows his stuff, but I agree with LadyG... he's difficult to have a discussion with, because of the sheer size of his posts, and the forcefulness with which he makes them.

I never found it hard to read....i mean i never had an argument with him, but i did participate in discussions but either because we were in agreement or because he didn't feel the need, we never directly argued.


Either way i loved it.

Yes it was lengthy but there was a reason.

And his sarcasm was spot on LOL!

As far as this topic....(since i went askew)

I don't at all disagree with Ms.Obama pushing for healthier schools.

She is late in some regards as i said earlier NYC on their own decided to ban unhealthy vending machines, and to my knowledge has nothing to do with her.


Im sure some of the more healthier areas in the country either DO not have vending machines or the kids know better then to fill up on junk.

From all the people i have known that either grew up in/lived in poor areas(some of my military buddies were homeless at times), there is a disconnect between the parents and the schools. Either the kids don't go to school and there is a parent missing from the house hold or if they do go to school, there is no support at home and they are not pushed to participate in school....just merely show up.

Then they come home or hang out all day and eat like crap and often don't eat at all cept for maybe at a friends or there one school lunch.

I always say it starts with the parents....whether you were ready for a kid or not, so many people seem to not understand the power they hold when being a parent. Your shaping that child's entire life off the first 10 years they exist.

It goes deeper then that but once bad habits are ingrained, that's it. They can be changed but it will be an uphill battle because that period of puberty/rebellion will fight you and in the end a lot of damage can be done.


As far as the people you see at work Mike, they KNOW better.

Im not discounting that a very small percentage of the population who doesn't go to school and has no education in the home, might not know that Mcdonalds is bad for them....but they are a VERY small %.

The average person who is obese, knows that what they are doing is wrong and either canno't control it(because they actually have a disorder) or chooses not to.

EVERYONE knows what's good and what's bad.

My idea was that there needs to be more education pushed through schools and more programs for kids to learn the ups and downs of a healthy diet and have options....not just a program that decides what they can eat and then fines or penalizes the parents for bad decisions because unfortunately in the end i feel it should always be a parents decision UNLESS child services thinks that a certain child is being housed in a dangerous environment.

I say unfortunately because i would not want to give up any of my rights to be a parent and so thus there will be situations where you would want to take some of the rights away from BAD parents but you can only do for all, not just one.

I actually never clicked tommi's link lol. I've seen it posted on the net, saw debates on tv etc....that is where i was basing my info on.

I checked out the site you posted but didn't see anything one way or the other....

but i did see that President Obama signed a law into effect to help decide what route Ms.Obama's program needed to go.

So as far as she having no power....well there ya go.

She want's to tackle this problem....he signs a reform allowing her to better use her time and resources...

im not saying there is anything wrong with that....but when he needs something or wants to push an agenda don't for one minute think she won't get it(unless it is totally bonkers)


Women run shit, as much as men like to argue against it.

You might be the king of your domain but in some shape a women runs that shit lol.

[deevergote]

She's a figurehead. She's not the one devising this plan. There's an entire organization doing that (the same goes for DARE in the 80s... that was not Nancy's brainchild... she was just the face of the campaign.)

A woman can run a man's life, but a woman can only do so much in manipulating the government through her man. Also keep in mind that President Obama is not KING Obama. There are two other branches of government in control, and many other people involved... people that we (*cough*) voted into office.



The biggest point in this thread is the fact that the initial argument is flawed. The presentation of the issue is suggesting that we are hiring questionable people to sort through packed lunches, throwing out food that isn't healthy, and telling the kids that they're wrong. That is a HUGE exaggeration.

[Ralphie]

She's a figurehead. She's not the one devising this plan. There's an entire organization doing that (the same goes for DARE in the 80s... that was not Nancy's brainchild... she was just the face of the campaign.)

A woman can run a man's life, but a woman can only do so much in manipulating the government through her man. Also keep in mind that President Obama is not KING Obama. There are two other branches of government in control, and many other people involved... people that we (*cough*) voted into office.



The biggest point in this thread is the fact that the initial argument is flawed. The presentation of the issue is suggesting that we are hiring questionable people to sort through packed lunches, throwing out food that isn't healthy, and telling the kids that they're wrong. That is a HUGE exaggeration.

Oh im not one of those people who think that Presidents can do whatever they want, i understand that there is a whole system behind it and he basically "suggests" laws etc and then congress votes on it and it goes from there.


Im just saying that even though there is a team behind her, and advisers to her left and right, that in the end , with exception, if she pushes for it, she will get it.


And as far as the school lunch bullying, im not sure if its true or not...i didn't read anything about that specifically....but i did overhear them debating it on CNN, so obviously it must be raising some eyebrows.

Unfortunately this administration has done some sketchy things and so people are paying much more attention then they normally would.