Leasing a WRX

['93CB7Ex]

more than likely. ford can see if you flash a mustang. wouldnt doubt subaru being able to also.

[Saidaigen8]

Don't mod the Subaru period unless want to buy the dealer a new engine. Yes they can tell if the ecu has been flashed and they are more than prepared to make you pay for it. I still say leasing is a bad idea considering the car park thing.

[Joey GT-R]

I'm not going to try to trick you out of doing something. And it's pretty evident you have your mind set on it anyways. Boy I wish I could have more people like you walking in at my dealership!!!!!

Have you looked into VeeDubs? GTIs and GLIs and Beetle Turbos IMHO are more reliable than Subarus. Plus there are parts you can buy from Audi/Volkswagen/Porsche that the dealer will allow you during your lease. At least that's the way it used to be.....I remember MKIV and MKV owners adding the 911 turbo in place of the stock one and gaining like 140whp. The dealer will have to install them of course.

Then with the money down you have an Acura TSX isn't far from possible at all. And Mugen accesories I'm sure are in the green.

Leasing does cost you more in the end. But like you said you're looking for peace of mind, and that is what leasing is all about. Wish you luck in whatever you choose.

[wed3k]

I'm not going to try to trick you out of doing something. And it's pretty evident you have your mind set on it anyways. Boy I wish I could have more people like you walking in at my dealership!!!!!

Have you looked into VeeDubs? GTIs and GLIs and Beetle Turbos IMHO are more reliable than Subarus. Plus there are parts you can buy from Audi/Volkswagen/Porsche that the dealer will allow you during your lease. At least that's the way it used to be.....I remember MKIV and MKV owners adding the 911 turbo in place of the stock one and gaining like 140whp. The dealer will have to install them of course.

Then with the money down you have an Acura TSX isn't far from possible at all. And Mugen accesories I'm sure are in the green.

Leasing does cost you more in the end. But like you said you're looking for peace of mind, and that is what leasing is all about. Wish you luck in whatever you choose.

this is why my subaru is my daily driver and my vw sits in the garage right?

vw's and audis are fucking garbage. they won't leave you stranded nor will a subaru but little nicknacks will fall apart or go out. cel's always on for something stupid.

unfortunately i will always have a soft spot and plan on getting a S4. they go for around 6-7k.

[owequitit]

There is so much misinformation in this thread it is retarded.

www.leaseguide.com

If you really want to, you can pay the ~$20 bucks for a permanent subscription. Best money we have spent in relationship to cars, hands down, bar none, and without fail. It has all sorts of information, calculators and even gives you the to-the-penny lease formulas that are used by ALL car manufacturers, so you can determine EXACTLY what your payment should be with all taxes, licensing, fees, and selling price entered into their calculator. My parents have been leasing Accords for years, and I can verify the numbers Honda gives me to the penny, and if their math agrees with mine, then we are good to go.

Leasing is the most misunderstood and ignorantly maligned financing strategy in the world. The reason most people don't like a lease is because they don't know what they are doing, and they get themselves bent over and then complain that it was leasing that was to blame, when in actuality it was their own ignorance of how it works.

1) Leasing makes a TON of sense if you operate within a prescribed set of circumstances that DO cover the average driver. If you like to keep cars for long periods of time, do a lot of driving, or intend to keep the car after the financing period, then leasing is NOT for you.

However, if you run 12-15K in mileage per year, and want a new car, then leasing is a great option. For instance, my car has a $300 a month payment including all financing, taxes, etc. Had I bought the same car for what I put down, the finance term would have been 5-6 years, and my payment would have been around $400-475 a month. My term is 3 years which is usually the best time frame from a value/amount owed standpoint. Especially with Honda's you usually end up ahead at this timeframe, because you have paid the car down quite a bit, and it still has most of its value. For instance, my Si books at $18,800 private party value, but I will only owe about $14,000 at the end of 3 years. My original intent was to pick up an 8th gen Si, because I knew I liked it, and I leased in hopes that by the time my lease was up the 2012 Si would be on the market and it would be a cool car. But since it isn't, I can either turn my car in with no penalty, use it as a trade on a new Honda (or other car for that matter), sell it outright, pay it off and keep the change, or buy it for the agreed residual value in the original contract. So really, I have several options, some of which aren't available through traditional financing. Most car companies want to keep you in their cars, so typically, they will give you favorable lease terms on a new car, should you choose to move across. If I finance it off lease, I end up paying more interest over the long term, but I also get a more managable payment. Intending to buy off lease is usually not the most sound option, but in a case like mine, I would rather keep my Si than get a new one.

2) Buying a depreciating asset is silly because you are paying ~$23K + fees for something that will eventually be worthless. Except in the rare instances mentioned above, leasing actually makes more sense than owning. The other thing you will commonly hear about leasing is "they penalize you for going over mileage." That is true, but you get penalized for going over mileage when you own a car too. On the lease, they charge you a fee at the end, with a purchase, they take it out of the resale value, so either way, you can quickly end up upside down. In at least Honda's case, every lease is given automatic GAP coverage, and they also allow you $1500 in lease end credits that can be applied toward damage, excess wear and tear, or excess mileage, so unless you destroy the car, or go WAY over your mileage, then that will usually cover it. With a purchased car, you just get nailed on resale value.

I would venture to guess that most millionaires drive cars that are somehow paid for in some other means ( a holding company owns them, etc, so they can write them off).

3) The quickest way most people get screwed on a lease is because they don't work out all of the figures first. Most people actually get screwed on a purchase as well, they just don't realize it.

Payment NEVER matters until all other details are settled because all other details will determine what the payment is. So never talk payment or lease payment amount until ALL aspects are settled, because if you do it this way, there is no need to settle anything.

When buying ANY car, the first detail that should be worked out is the value of any trade in. Once you lock that in and have it in writing they can't change it. This essentially guarantees a down payment amount, if you even have a trade in.

Next item to be locked in is the purchase price of the new car. If you have the purchase price of the new car, and the value of the old car, then the only costs left are taxes, licensing, and other "misc" fees. Since the dealers don't control tax % or licensing fees, the only other area they have to wiggle is in the "misc" fees. The financing company for the lease is going to determine the money factor, which is essentially the interest rate (the number doesn't look like an interest rate, but there is actually a formula to convert it directly to an APR format). Money factor will be based on your debt and credit as well as your previous purchase history (repeat buyers will often get lower rates than a first time car leasee).

Now, you essentially have the finance elements of a car purchase. Until these basic tenents are agreed upon, it doesn't matter whether you are leasing or buying, and the car dealership doesn't need to know either way. Get the trade in and new car purchase locked in, find out tax rate, licensing fee, money factor and APR (as with a loan) and then have them itemize the "misc" fees. From here, you can plug everything into the lease calculator and it will tell you to the penny what your payment should be. It is a simple interest formula and is standard, so if the dealer comes back with a number that doesn't match, they are attempting to screw you somewhere. You then have to go through and figure out where they are sticking money in to raise the payment.

4) That leads me to my last point. "Misc" fees. You will see all sorts of official sounding, useless crap in here. A prime example is the "processing fee" which will usually be around $500. What this is supposed to cover is the cost of doing paperwork on your new car. What it really is is a way for them to guarantee a $500 profit on the car, even if you manage to talk them into selling for "invoice" (which gets way more complicated anyway). It doesn't cost them anywhere near the processing fee to do the paperwork. They also usually get you with additional warranties, options packages, alarm systems and all the other crap they tack on. Honda dealers out here are notorious for charging $900 for a "summer equipment package" that includes window tint, edge guards and pin-striping, which added up equal about $400.

Dealers will give you the sob story about how "we have to make money too, and everybody screws us" when in reality they might not be making money off of YOUR car, but they sure as hell are bending Granny Matilda over the pole. I have no sympathy when they are making their money through covert means like fees, and have no problem screwing my grandmother as soon as they get the chance. Ultimately, if the deal is bad for them, they will simply walk away and not want to talk to you, so if they are negotiating, you are still in charge.

5) That brings me to my last point. If you can find a salesman/dealer that is consistently honest and fair, stick with them. Still verify their numbers, but they are less likely to sneak stuff in on you. With these types, I don't have a problem agreeing on a price that includes a bit of profit for them.

Another thing I have learned to do by necessity is I will ONLY deal with them online. First, it makes it not personal. It also makes it a lot less stressful, because I can verify their numbers from the comfort of my own home. If I don't like what I see, I send an email telling them that. If I do, then I can agree and we can move forward. This is especially useful for verifying what they say, what they are charging and where the money is going. Not only is there a record you can refer back to if necessary, but you have a written history of what was said, so if they say "I didn't say that" you can show them that they did. I had a Honda dealer try to roll a fee in on me 3 times when I was negotiating for my Si, and had it not been for the email, I would not have caught it. That alone would have cost me about $800 extra. In many cases, online contacts will automatically start the negotiating at a lower price because they know they are being shopped against 5 or 6 other dealers, so they are more likely to want to sweeten the deal.

It is also less personal. You don't get mad, they don't strongarm you, and there is no full day spent sitting in a dealer fighting the fight. You email, agree on numbers, and then go pick up your car. I think for both our 06 and 09 Accords we spent a grand total of 3 hours in a dealership, and more than half of that was intro test drive, being shown the features and then about 30 minutes of signing paperwork in each case. In and out, with no hassle, and no stress.

[owequitit]

P.S. Not saying you should or shouldn't lease a WRX, but you need to seriously consider your options, look at the numbers, consider YOUR intent and mission and then probably pay for the leaseguide if you are interested in the option. When you are negotiating, use the strategy I said, calculate both payment and lease payment, consider the restrictions and see which one works better for you.

[rexload]

^ thank you VERY MUCH for the detailed response. I just read the Car Leasing Guide on that website and definitely learned a lot.


I am going to contact a Subaru dealer today and see if I can get the $300/mo deal.
Also...I MAY look at the V6 stang as it is a bit cheaper to lease. But I'd rather have awd or fwd.

[h22sparkle]

Not only that if you run over a certain amount of mileage they can charge you extra on the leaase for the car. Honestly if your going to get a car you should have it paid out right just in case another unexpected expense comes down the line your covered becuase youll have the cash to do so

[rexload]

Not only that if you run over a certain amount of mileage they can charge you extra on the leaase for the car. Honestly if your going to get a car you should have it paid out right just in case another unexpected expense comes down the line your covered becuase youll have the cash to do so

see my calculation on page 1. leasing and owning costs the same in the long run.

[rexload]

I dunno. Maybe I've just been conditioned not to spend anymore than I need to spend. I just don't get how someone can be worried about their car being parked...so their logic tells them to go buy a newer, nicer, more valuable, better car to park in the same spot...how does that solve the issue? Or make any logical sense whatsoever? It doesn't, it's just an excuse to go buy a new car. My buddy used to own a pretty heavily modded integra and he lived in the same apt as me when my hatch got stolen in RI and his car was parked right next to mine. He then moved across the country and brought the car with him. I believe he had the car for about 5 years and never once had a single issue with theft or vandalism. Before he moved across the country/after he moved outta my place. He parked on Cambridge street in Boston...for almost a year and never had an issue...that says something right there. He never even got theft coverage.

The op said he's never had issues with theft and vandalism before...just his buddies have, but that's not him or the teg. So why go out and drop all this money over a bad feeling and a few horror stories? like I said before...it just seems like you're looking for a reason to get a new car. If that's the case...just start looking at new cars, find one you like, and buy it. But you're asking for advice/opinions...this is my advice/opinion. If you're worried about your $4k car...what the hell is buying or leasing a $10-13k car going to solve? What if you spend all that money leasing or buying...and two days later you're car is stolen? Then what? buy an even more expensive car?

That is the whole point. If I OWN a car, I tend to mod it.
So like you said, my car is worth 4K, if it gets stolen, I am out another 5K that I spent on it PLUS all the time I spent.

[owequitit]

Leasing = renting.

Personally, I don't like the idea of paying every month for a car that I won't own after a few years.
Of course, a car is a bad investment anyway. A 3 year lease for a WRX, with the addition of the $2000 at signing, will end up being about $12,000 by the end of the term, plus any mileage or damage penalties. Not too bad for a car that costs nearly $30,000.
If you bought the car and traded it in after 3 years, you'd probably lose far more.


Of course, a lease has to remain stock (or you risk seriously violating the lease agreement... and I wouldn't doubt that they have a no-mod clause in a performance car lease agreement!)



I've considered it. I'll be buying a 1st gen CTS-V soon, and I've contemplated leasing a 2nd gen, as they're better looking, and they have an extra 156hp under the hood! The lease wasn't practical to me, though... and I don't think I'd ever feel like it was MY car. That's important to me.

Not only that if you run over a certain amount of mileage they can charge you extra on the leaase for the car. Honestly if your going to get a car you should have it paid out right just in case another unexpected expense comes down the line your covered becuase youll have the cash to do so

You get charged for driving an owned car over mileage too. And leasing has nothing to do with getting repairs... In fact, since most lease terms are 3yr/36K, the car will NEVER be out of the bumper to bumper warranty, i.e. you don't pay shit for shit.

[owequitit]

^ thank you VERY MUCH for the detailed response. I just read the Car Leasing Guide on that website and definitely learned a lot.


I am going to contact a Subaru dealer today and see if I can get the $300/mo deal.
Also...I MAY look at the V6 stang as it is a bit cheaper to lease. But I'd rather have awd or fwd.

As long as everything is negotiated prior to telling them whether you want to lease or not, you should be fine. Approach it the same way you would when buying a car, because other than method of financing, there is no difference.

There is also something to be said about being able to just roll into a new car every three years, if you want to. Do it right and you can even keep your payment very similar.

Finally, one last note about leasing: Not all cars are created equal. I would be a lot more careful about leasing cars that don't hold their value. The finance companies have some leverage in how they can adjust your payment that is seperate from your deal with the dealership. The residual amount is essentially the total you have NOT financed at the end. For instance, on a $23K purchase, your contract might have you pay $10K towards the value of the car, and then some set amount of interest. At the end of the lease, the residual should be $13K because that is the amount you didn't finance. So if you wanted to buy the car outright, or sell it, keep the profit and pay it off that way, then Subaru would expect to see $13K, just like if you sell a car with a loan on it. But, Subaru has the ability to set the residual at whatever value you both agree upon (normally, you don't get any input into this value), so they can actually adjust the payment amount by adjusting the residual. If the residual goes up, then the payment goes down because you are financing less. If they drive the residual down, then the payment goes up, but you are less likely to end up upside down. On a lease, if that happens, you always have the ability to give the car back and walk away, in which case they absorb it and you don't (unlike a car purchase where you get to take the hit). You have to be careful though, because in some cases, the financing company will drive the residual to make the payments more attractive, which could give you fewer options at lease end. Like I said, worst case scenario is you walk away. Leaseguide tracks the leasing values based on brand and model and tells you how it does. Toyotas and Hondas are STELLAR leases, as well as Acura and Lexus, because they hold their value so well. For instance, the old "rule of thumb" that says "your car depreciates by half when you drive it off the lot" is bullshit. That is a tactic used by used car salesman to scare you out of a new car. In the case of my Si, it has seen LESS than 14% depreciation over 3 years, so it is still worth 86% of its new value. I could probably save a bit of money by having bought a used Si, but frankly, the whole new car thing plus warranty was totally worth what would have amounted to a couple hundred in savings over the last 3 years. I also have a positive cash position on the car at the moment, so really, other than the little bit washed due to depreciation, I didn't actually lose all that much, and probably not much more than I would have lost on the same slightly used car over the same period.

Whereas you might find that a GM depreciates by 30-50% in the same timeframe, it just depends on the car, the brand, and the model. The ones that will REALLY tank on resale are the German Luxury cars. Luxury cars in general are pretty bad, but the Germans are HORRIBLE for holding value. Usually, cars that are simpler, cheaper, more specific market focused (like a WRX or Si), or come from a brand with a good reputation for reliability will do better on resale value. It is not coincidental that Honda and Toyota lead reliability studies consistently and also have consistently market leading resale values.

So far, the only lease we had a wash on was our 2006 Accord. It was even when we got to 3 years, partly because of my parents being over mileage, and partly because the car market in 2009 when we traded out of it was in shambles, so NOTHING was holding value very well. If you aren't sure of the mileage you will put on it, opt for the 15K, as it will give you a surprising amount of additional protection at the end of the lease.

[AccordWarrior]

You get charged for driving an owned car over mileage too. And leasing has nothing to do with getting repairs... In fact, since most lease terms are 3yr/36K, the car will NEVER be out of the bumper to bumper warranty, i.e. you don't pay shit for shit.

Unless the dealer determines it was owner abuse and won't cover it under warranty.

Most (not all) Subaru dealers love to throw up the "owner abuse" reason to deny warranty claims. Since the OP is asking about modifications, that could be a very real possibility.

[rexload]

Are Subarus really so unreliable that something major is going to break in the first 30,000 miles?

I hit the rev limit on my 100K mile/boosted on a shitty tune/stock 10.6:1 compression motor GSR every time I shift almost daily.... and nothing ever breaks on it besides engine mounts get torn. I don't see how a brand new car that is designed for rally racing is going to be any less reliable.

[accord93racer]

Are Subarus really so unreliable that something major is going to break in the first 30,000 miles?

No, keep it stock if you are leasing it. I'm looking into purchasing an '11 or '12 WRX and plan to keep it stock even though I want to mod it. I've heard the '11-'12 WRXs are plenty fast stock. Some Subaru dealers are mod friendly to a point. I have heard that some Subaru dealers allow a Cobb reflash and catback, however they can look into the ECU and see if you are constantly redlining it and driving the piss out of it.

The '08 STIs had an issue with the stock tune which if not taken care of would caus internal engine damage.

My two cents though is that a WRX is not a vehicle to lease. It is an ethusiast car.