Ah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Honda what are you doing!

[ChIoVnIdCa]

P.S. On brake pads, did you make sure the TSB on caliper pins was complied with? That seems to fix the issue, although I will let you know if our gets to sufficient mileage.

As for an Accord hybrid, does anybody bother to read the releases, or do they just bitch about the photos?

Caliper pins were swapped from factory and I fixed that.... Still eats pads... You live in AZ, seems like VTC is more of a cold climate issue... Accord hybrid planed... We will see if it is normal looking and if it comes to life...

[s2cmpugh]

[QUOTE=C-Rod;2915467]

What is a mira mira?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...rm=mira%20mira

I didn't know either until this haha

Didn't look this up at work as I didn't want HR all over me, but after I got home I did. I just learned something new. Do all the young kids say this now or am I just getting old?

[owequitit]

I've had a slew of Fusions for rental cars over the past couple of years and their interiors are excellent! The fit and finish is great, the feel of the plastics is great, and the seats are badass! For me PERSONALLY, I wouldn't by a Honda today. Zero excitement, lazy styling updates/evolutions and known build quality issues. It's almost like the "other guys" are heading in the direction Honda took years ago, while Honda is behaving more like the "other guys" were years ago.


As far as the Fusion looking like an Aston, why is that a bad thing? If you criticize Ford for making the Fusion look like an Aston, then you need to criticize Honda for making the Prelude with pop-up headlights look like a Ferrari. And honestly, who cares dude? I don't know about you, but I can't afford an Aston Martin right now. It brings style, fashion, and some zing to an otherwise boring class of car. And for what it's worth, I've been up close and personal to an Aston DB9 Volante, and the only similiarity is in the grill. Everything else is completely different.

I'm not trying to say Honda produces bad cars, but it's obvious the people in charge seem to be steering the company in a direction that strays from it's roots. A reporter for R&T said it best, "Honda used to be an engineering company, but now they are becoming more and more a marketing company".

A better question to lead off with is what is your experience with new Accords? I have also dealt with several Fusions as rental cars, and it was about on PAR with the Accord. I get a kick out of the people who tell me how good the competition is relative to their 20 year old CB7 with no real modern basis of comparison. The biggest area where I thought the Ford was better was in the squishy upper pad on the dash. However, for most items that get touched frequently, such as knobs, switches, buttons, dials, etc. The Accord is superior. All moving bin lids, glove box covers etc in the Accord are also superior and more substantial. So while the Accord lacks in some areas, it is much better in others. My biggest complaint about the Accord's interior is the painted switchgear, which looks cheaper than it actually is.

The Accord still doesn't have to make any excuses for interior quality.

And sorry, but that thing is ugly and just like Ford's revolutionary "aero" styling that was such a breakthrough in 1986, it will look dated before too long. I like most of the aspects of it, except for the front and rear, because it doesn't look like an Aston and instead looks like it has a suckerfish mouth, and is too blingy with the chrome grill (sort of like the current Fusion). If the lessons of the CR-V and the Civic are any indication, I believe the Accord will move forward quite substantially in the interior department, and I would rather pay for that than any amount of styling. We bought a lot of plain and homely Hondas for their unquestionable quality, and would gladly do so again. I am not very hopeful that the sedan will be a good looking car, but frankly, it is hard to criticize Honda's history of successful execution, even when you consider their several mis-steps.

[owequitit]

Caliper pins were swapped from factory and I fixed that.... Still eats pads... You live in AZ, seems like VTC is more of a cold climate issue... Accord hybrid planed... We will see if it is normal looking and if it comes to life...

Our Accord is a V6. There is no VTC. That said, by Civic uses the same VTC parts and we are subzero for the better part of 6-7 months...

It is not planned, it is confirmed.

[ChIoVnIdCa]

but let's use BMW as an example. In order to hide and reduce the cost of ownership on their cars, they started to include "routine maintenance" to make the vehicles more attractive when compared to their Japanese counterparts who didn't require the routine several hundred to several thousand dollar maintenance events.

If you follow the book on a BMW the maintenance is not extensive at all.. 15k oil changes.. Trans is "lifetime".... lol ( I think they updated that though due to failure...) And you don't rotate tires on MANY BMWs.. So in 50k all they do is throw in some wiper blade inserts and three oil changes... Not that great of a deal huh...

[ChIoVnIdCa]

Our Accord is a V6. There is no VTC. That said, by Civic uses the same VTC parts and we are subzero for the better part of 6-7 months...

It is not planned, it is confirmed.

The seventh gen accord also has the VTC with little failure it seems like the eighth gen has the most failures even though it is newer...

[ChIoVnIdCa]

My biggest complaint about the Accord's interior is the painted switchgear, which looks cheaper than it actually is.

Painted switchgear?

[owequitit]

Painted switchgear?

Not so much switchgear, as things like the door handles and other secondary little parts that make them look cheaper. Like the CC knobs in the Si, and the faux aluminum gear lever cover in the Accord.

[Law Grandeur]

[QUOTE=s2cmpugh;2915726]

Didn't look this up at work as I didn't want HR all over me, but after I got home I did. I just learned something new. Do all the young kids say this now or am I just getting old?

ill be 26 next month and have been saying it since middle school lol. they are the worst drivers btw too lol

[s2cmpugh]

A better question to lead off with is what is your experience with new Accords? I have also dealt with several Fusions as rental cars, and it was about on PAR with the Accord. I get a kick out of the people who tell me how good the competition is relative to their 20 year old CB7 with no real modern basis of comparison. The biggest area where I thought the Ford was better was in the squishy upper pad on the dash. However, for most items that get touched frequently, such as knobs, switches, buttons, dials, etc. The Accord is superior. All moving bin lids, glove box covers etc in the Accord are also superior and more substantial. So while the Accord lacks in some areas, it is much better in others. My biggest complaint about the Accord's interior is the painted switchgear, which looks cheaper than it actually is.

The Accord still doesn't have to make any excuses for interior quality.

And sorry, but that thing is ugly and just like Ford's revolutionary "aero" styling that was such a breakthrough in 1986, it will look dated before too long. I like most of the aspects of it, except for the front and rear, because it doesn't look like an Aston and instead looks like it has a suckerfish mouth, and is too blingy with the chrome grill (sort of like the current Fusion). If the lessons of the CR-V and the Civic are any indication, I believe the Accord will move forward quite substantially in the interior department, and I would rather pay for that than any amount of styling. We bought a lot of plain and homely Hondas for their unquestionable quality, and would gladly do so again. I am not very hopeful that the sedan will be a good looking car, but frankly, it is hard to criticize Honda's history of successful execution, even when you consider their several mis-steps.

At no time did I use a CB7 in comparison to any other car, feel free to go back and check. A friend of mine has an '06 V6 sedan, and while the car is nice, some of the plastics just feel cheap. Not to mention, that transimssion shifts just like the J series trans. that was known to catastrophically fail prematurely. I've owned many Honda's; 89 Prelude S, 88 Prelude Si, 92 Accord, 95 Accord V6, 00 Accord coupe, 02 S2000, and a 91 Accord. One thing I can say is that the quality difference between the 00 coupe and 88 Prelude is night and day; the Prelude wins hands down.

Styling is nothing but a personal preference, (I think we all agree the Pontiac Aztez was hideous) but it's how Honda seems to be getting lazy in the style department. Here is something to think about, when Brooklyn Decker or Jordana Brewester comes up and asks you why you bought the Honda Accord over the Fusion, what do you say and what sounds better? "Well the Honda has more substantial moving bins and glove box covers" or "You know...I bought the Fusion (or any other car here) because of the way it made me feel when I walk up to it and get in".

As far as successful execution goes, totally relative to the circumstance. You think Honda has seccussefully executed, well I think Pagani successfully executed the Zonda or Mercedes successfully executed the G wagon. You can't use that argument unless you compare it to failed or failing companies, (ie) Delorean, Saab, Rover, etc.

Look, I'm not trying to see whose penis is bigger because we all know Ron Jeremy wins that, but just take the blinders off and realize other car companies produce cars that are just as good as Honda now.

[s2cmpugh]

[QUOTE=Law Grandeur;2916019]

ill be 26 next month and have been saying it since middle school lol. they are the worst drivers btw too lol

I turned 30 a little while ago, but that never came up in highschool or even college. I feel like I've missed out on something....damn.

[owequitit]

At no time did I use a CB7 in comparison to any other car, feel free to go back and check. A friend of mine has an '06 V6 sedan, and while the car is nice, some of the plastics just feel cheap. Not to mention, that transimssion shifts just like the J series trans. that was known to catastrophically fail prematurely. I've owned many Honda's; 89 Prelude S, 88 Prelude Si, 92 Accord, 95 Accord V6, 00 Accord coupe, 02 S2000, and a 91 Accord. One thing I can say is that the quality difference between the 00 coupe and 88 Prelude is night and day; the Prelude wins hands down.

It's funny that you tell ME to go back and read, when clearly, you didn't comprehend MY statement. How about you worry about your own reading comprehension and let me worry about mine?

1) I didn't accuse you of mentioning the CB7. I made a statement in reference to the people whining about how boring the styling was when they all own and love one of the most vanilla designs on the planet. I was making the statement in response to the people who own cars like the 4th, 5th and 6th gens who criticize this car's "boring" styling. One of the truths of the used car markets is that ageless (read "boring" styling devoid of trends) age and sell well down the road. You simply took my statement about the CB7 incorrectly.

2) First, a 2006 Accord is not "new." It is 1 generation old, and if you think it is bad, you should check out the 6th gen, where Honda's build quality hit a low. You dig deeper into the cars and you see it even worse. I know because we owned 1 6th gen and 2 7th gens. The quality on the 7th gen was better than the 6th, and as far as my experience goes, the quality in many areas on our 8th gen is better than the 7th gen was. While not quite where they were in the early 1990's they are headed in the right direction.

Second, I actually owned 2 7th gens (still have one) and they were both completely trouble free. The plastics held up quite well (especially compared to the 7th gen) but have gotten a bit more scratching than our older Hondas, and we didn't have a single tranny issue with any of the 3. Also, while the 4AT in the 6th gen was problematic, the 5AT in the 7th gen was not. They had an early build issue with the first batch, and after that, they have been pretty reliable in comparison to any other auto tranny. As for shift quality, they shift quickly but smoothly, and frankly, the 5AT in the MMC 7th gen is still one of the best autoboxes I have driven, period. Regardless, this isn't about the 7th gen, it is about the 9th gen relative to the 8th gen, and frankly, the plastics in the 8th gen are holding up as well as the older Hondas did thus far. The leather is doing much better than the 6th and 7th gens did as well, while also having many fewer small rattles in the interior. Don't get me wrong, I loved our 7th gens (especially the 06) and actually miss it, but it wasn't better than the 8th in a lot of ways).

Finally, if you think your list of cars is impressive, try again. 88 Accord, 90 Accord, 02 Accord, 04 Accord, 06 Accord, 09 Accord, 88 Civic, 92 Civic, 99 Civic, 00 Civic, 2001 Civic and 09 Civic. I have had many good friends that I have spent countless hours driving, wrenching and dealing with pretty much every other Honda model in existence, Including EVERY generation of Prelude, Integra and TL, the 5th gen Accord, and virtually every single generation of Civic I didn't mention. I know where Honda models stand relative to their older counterparts. And FYI, I tear them down and rebuild them, modify and swap them. I used to do it for business on the side with Ray Ray, but got too busy with other things. To assume I am not speaking from a lot of personal experience is to assume wrong.

Styling is nothing but a personal preference, (I think we all agree the Pontiac Aztez was hideous) but it's how Honda seems to be getting lazy in the style department. Here is something to think about, when Brooklyn Decker or Jordana Brewester comes up and asks you why you bought the Honda Accord over the Fusion, what do you say and what sounds better? "Well the Honda has more substantial moving bins and glove box covers" or "You know...I bought the Fusion (or any other car here) because of the way it made me feel when I walk up to it and get in".

Styling is subjective. I don't think Honda is lazy at all. The 8th gen Civic and 8th gen Accord coupe were 2 of the best looking Honda products ever made, hands down. They forced the entire industry to change the way cars were styled. Look at cars prior to the 8th gen Civic, and even around the time of the 8th gen Accord. People can bash it all they want, but more than once people have mistaken our Diamond White Pearl EX-L V6 for something much more expensive than a Honda (give you a guess what it was each time)... See an 8th gen coupe with the HFP suspension and a nice set of wheels and it absolutely keeps company with cars costing 10+K more. It has soft, supple leather, high quality switch gear, is supremely comfortable and in 6MT guise more than enough power. You and all the others can stand there and bitch about Honda being lazy all you want, but really they are evolving two of the best designs they have ever had. Nothing wrong with that. Furthermore, I was in the market for the new Si and absolutely LOVE the styling. I didn't like the cheapened interior, nor did I like the switch to a neutered K24. So you can accuse me of whatever bias you want, but the reality is that I didn't give Honda any sort of pass with the 9th gen Civic and will probably just keep my 8th because of it (even though I actually like the 9th gen's styling a little bit better). Furthermore, we are going to be trading our 09 Accord off lease in August, and right now, this car is very much favored versus a 2012 Accord. It has better technology, more features, more power, better MPG and is smaller (the single biggest criticism against the current Accord). If the CRV is any indication, as well as the rumored Civic interior refresh, then the Accord should actually take the 8th gen and move it well upscale. Since the 8th gen is actually better than the 7th gen in many regards, I don't see that as a problem. As it stands, the 8th gen doesn't need to make any excuses versus cars like the Fusion in terms of quality, and that is just way it is. The Ford leads slightly in some areas, the Honda in others. Frankly, it is nice to finally see people able to build something on par with Honda and Toyota.

As for what Jordana Brewster would think about why I bought a car, PUHLEASE. Like I buy a car to impress Jordana Brewster. I drove a CB7 daily until 256K miles because I LOVED it, not because it impressed anybody (it was a 4 door, frost white Accord for F's sake). As for the 8th gen, I feel no need to applogize for it. It is roomy, comfortable, well equipped, reliable, decent looking (still don't like the bug-eye headlights much), powerful, smooth, and very pleasing to drive. The only real complaints I have about the 8th gen are VCM and the high level of road noise on broken pavement. Other than that, it is a fantastic car.

As far as successful execution goes, totally relative to the circumstance. You think Honda has seccussefully executed, well I think Pagani successfully executed the Zonda or Mercedes successfully executed the G wagon. You can't use that argument unless you compare it to failed or failing companies, (ie) Delorean, Saab, Rover, etc.

Nonsense. This is a diversionary tactic and nothing more. First, I am judging Honda primarily on their relative merits based on other cars in the segment. Second, I am judging Honda based on the relative merits of every previous Honda we have owned, with a specific emphasis relative to previous ACCORDS we have owned. Honda is successfully executing because they are maintaining a leading level of equipment, power, MPG, reliability, comfort, construction, handling (deny it or don't, overall, the Accord is STILL one of the better handling cars in the segment).

Look, I'm not trying to see whose penis is bigger because we all know Ron Jeremy wins that, but just take the blinders off and realize other car companies produce cars that are just as good as Honda now.

I disagree. They don't equal in reliability, resale, long term reliability and Honda keeps upping them with each new generation. The longer you extend the data field the more apparent that becomes. The only company anywhere near as consistent as Honda is Toyota, and I give them full credit for it. Like I said, when all of the others continually build equal or better cars for decades on end, then I will change my opinion, not a moment before. It doesn't matter what you say, or what Jordana Brewster thinks. I agree that it is fair to say that other companies are no longer producing total shit, and have stepped up their game, but I will NOT appologize for liking Honda's product, nor will I relent until the data is there. I will certainly not submit based on an opinion that is not based on direct ownership over and over and over again. My blinders are not on nearly as much as yours are, and in most cases, my position is more substantiated with numbers and experience than most people I have this conversation with. You can formulate whatever opinion you want on the world, and we will have to agree to disagree, because your formulation of an opinion has absolutely no bearing on mine.