Song writing... any tips from the musicians here?

[deevergote]

I'm dying to start a new band. My old one split, and I have all the equipment (buying my drummer's kit in the next couple weeks, as soon as I get paid again... then I'll have everything.)

I really want to start a new project, but I'm a terrible songwriter! In my old band, my drummer wrote the lyrics, and my guitarist/singer wrote the music (including the melody to the lyrics... which was never what my drummer intended, and it drove him nuts! )

I know we have some pretty good musicians on here, so I figure I'd ask you guys if you have any songwriting tips. I've asked the same of my musician friends, but none of them have really said anything that worked for me... so maybe someone here can offer a new approach.

I'm shooting for another punk band, somewhere along the lines of Alkaline Trio, Face to Face, and Reggie and the Full Effect (I have a very talented keyboardist that has expressed interest...)


Most of my friends just rip off other bands, make some changes, and boom... a new song. My drummer used to write lyrics to other songs... just write different words using the same melody and rhythmic structure. My singer would steal chords and chord patterns from bands, change up the rhythm a bit, add a lead, and that was that... My bassline is often what made it unique, because I refused to listen to the same bands they listened to as we were writing.... so i'd never know what songs they were stealing!

I can't do it that way, though. If I hear myself stealing ANYTHING, I immediately trash the song. I just don't like doing that. I know... punk is the most recycled music ever...

[HenRoc]

The Micheal Dever Project. Prog Rock it out man

In lue of...

[deevergote]

Hell no!

Though if I wanted to play prog rock, the 18 year old ginger kid across the street is an amazing drummer... but that's all he likes. Prog and classic rock.

[apuforyou]

Every time I try to write a song, the finished product is never even remotely close to how it started out in my mind

[rexload]

This is an interesting question.
I personally don't write music but I play guitar almost every day and I've played with some bands when I was younger. My personal opinion is that you CAN develop that talent of being able to write good music.


Here are some ideas that I believe would help develop this talent:

- learn music theory inside and out
- pick one instrument and master it rather than being able to play multiple instruments on a mediocre level (unless you have enough free time to master more than one)
- constantly try to play musical pieces that are DIFFICULT for you to play.
- learn musical pieces from a variety of different genres. even if you want to play punk, playing classical and jazz pieces WILL give you many interesting ideas.
- try learning musical pieces by ear. if you can't, keep trying every day
- keep a little recorder handy and record anything you come up with that you think sounds good
- record rhythm on your recorder and try to come up with a unique melody
- try to play with as many different musicians who are BETTER than you as much as you can. this is by far the best way to become a better musician.
- learn how to sing if you don't know already. learn to sing and play the guitar/bass at the same time


I think working on becoming a better, more mature musician overall is going to help tremendously with writing songs.
And having some experience playing in a punk band, I can say that a decent punk song (one that somebody will want to hear more than once) needs 1. a good guitar riff, 2. a good melody and 3. not sound like another punk song.

[texasvtak]

ill move up there and well start a band.

and somehow make it work with two basses.

[apuforyou]

I have a bass as well... We can road trip up there vtak. 3 bass band.. CHANGING HISTORY

[HappyGilmore]

Ha well make it four then >.<

Deev what I do is just find songs based off of random things. I sing to myself alot of the time and make songs up. Only thing is I need a band myself. I happen to be a rapper most of the time. I deff enjoy some punk rock anytime all the time. My main thing recently has been 8 bit video games and such, well at least as a theme. Another good piece of advice step out of your comfort zone of music and see where that takes you. It deff works for me. Hence why I want to do rap/punk rock songs now . Also having the software to record helps that way you can always refer to stuff you have done in the past and go from there!

[deevergote]

I have a bass as well... We can road trip up there vtak. 3 bass band.. CHANGING HISTORY

Ha well make it four then >.<

Deev what I do is just find songs based off of random things. I sing to myself alot of the time and make songs up. Only thing is I need a band myself. I happen to be a rapper most of the time. I deff enjoy some punk rock anytime all the time. My main thing recently has been 8 bit video games and such, well at least as a theme. Another good piece of advice step out of your comfort zone of music and see where that takes you. It deff works for me. Hence why I want to do rap/punk rock songs now . Also having the software to record helps that way you can always refer to stuff you have done in the past and go from there!

Yeah, that's what my singer last said to me... it's the one thing that might work.
What frustrates me is that I can write an entire song in my head. Words, music, etc... I can listen to my own music in my head as if it were recorded, and love it. But the minute I try to get it out of my head... it disappears. It's like trying to remember a dream.

I often sing to myself, but I hate my natural melodies. The notes that I naturally go to (every songwriter has their go-to melodies and structures... I can pick out a song from a band I never heard before, covered by another band I never heard... just by those things, if I'm familiar enough.) I think my problem comes from going to Catholic school, and being exposed to simple church melodies in my youth. All my melodies seem to have that straightforward approach, and I despise it.

I just discovered that my iphone, placed on my leg, running the voice recorder, offers a pretty decent sound when I'm singing and playing acoustic. I recorded one song that way (sadly, it's a 45 second song... )

I think I'll be setting up my recording equipment today. I have an MAudio Delta 1010 setup that I got from my guitarist/singer. Not sure how to use it yet, but I'll figure it out. My computer is already all set up for it, since we used it to record in my house a few years ago.

[deevergote]

This is an interesting question.
I personally don't write music but I play guitar almost every day and I've played with some bands when I was younger. My personal opinion is that you CAN develop that talent of being able to write good music.


Here are some ideas that I believe would help develop this talent:

- learn music theory inside and out
- pick one instrument and master it rather than being able to play multiple instruments on a mediocre level (unless you have enough free time to master more than one)
- constantly try to play musical pieces that are DIFFICULT for you to play.
- learn musical pieces from a variety of different genres. even if you want to play punk, playing classical and jazz pieces WILL give you many interesting ideas.
- try learning musical pieces by ear. if you can't, keep trying every day
- keep a little recorder handy and record anything you come up with that you think sounds good
- record rhythm on your recorder and try to come up with a unique melody
- try to play with as many different musicians who are BETTER than you as much as you can. this is by far the best way to become a better musician.
- learn how to sing if you don't know already. learn to sing and play the guitar/bass at the same time


I think working on becoming a better, more mature musician overall is going to help tremendously with writing songs.
And having some experience playing in a punk band, I can say that a decent punk song (one that somebody will want to hear more than once) needs 1. a good guitar riff, 2. a good melody and 3. not sound like another punk song.

That's absolutely good advice, thanks!
I've studied music theory, both in high school and in college. I've been playing guitar since I was 12... started with metal, progressed to jazz (in a big band setting... the best band in my state.)... even wrote my own part to Malaga (Bill Holman, as performed by the Stan Kenton Orchestra). I then progressed to ska, then punk... then punk guitar got boring (and music theory as applied to punk can get tricky...) That's when I picked up the bass.
I started bass at 19. Found my love in a fretless, which is still my primary instrument. My style is rather unique to punk, as a good deal of my influence bass-wise comes from Bon Jovi, Iron Maiden, and Faith No More. I love challenging myself by playing difficult fast stuff... though lately I haven't played much at all. I'm not a Rancid fan, but Maxwell Murder is one of the most fun songs to play (I can make it halfway through the solo before I get lost... I can't even hear where I'm supposed to go, let alone have the dexterity to do it!)

I'm quite confident in my abilities to play my instrument. I've stepped in with all sorts of bands with no hesitation. I'm far from great, and I'm probably not even as good as some of the guys posting in this very thread... but I'm competent, and confident in my abilities where they are.

The actual songwriting part is what gets me. Taking an idea and turning it into words (I'm good with words... but you see how I ramble on... my writing style is WAY too wordy to be lyrical!) Then taking those words and putting it to a melody that doesn't sound like a nursery rhyme. Then adding music to those words (I'm told that my biggest downfall is that I'll write words with music in mind... and write the words FIRST... and try to write music around it... everyone else writes music and THEN words...)

Then I have a problem with confidence when it comes to showing my work to others. It's MY words, MY music, MY voice, and MY fingers all being showcased... and asking others to perform it as well. I love the idea, but it scares the hell out of me when the time comes to do it. That's just something I have to get over.
The funny thing is, when my other two bandmates handed me lyrics and told how it went... I had NO trouble. I never got nervous... because it was simply performing someone else's work. Not showcasing my own.

[toycar]

I'm no musician, but I like to write bizarre poetry and it is very similar(in my opinion) I personally think there's a few kinds of "music" to be written. One being story telling, and thats the type of poetry I like to write.

Vulgar, graphic, nasty stuff. Funny, but very innappropriate. Based on truths, but exaggerated for humor.

From there, I'm sure I could melody some shit to go with my story.

Id start there. You've got to be able to keep someone's attention with what your saying.

Otherwise, you'll just have a few lines, a chorus, some instrumental stuff, and sound like anyone else trying to make music.

Look at eminem. When he tells stories, they make great songs. when he writes something catchy and puts it to a catchy beat, he gets attention but fizzles as he blends into the rest of the music world. (without me as an example vs say, stan)

Which approach do you think earned him more plays and was listened to more? Club music(without me) or a song like stan?

Cleaning out my closet, stan, guilty conscious-all telling stories.

It applies to most artists too. Think of an awesome song, and you will remember what it was about. If its not about something nobody will give a crap.