Welfare

[LadyG]

Drug testing for welfare inserts the government into personal matters, and opens the door for a lot of other nasty civil rights infringements. That policy is best left to the privet sector.

Welfare should be based on work history. If you have none, you work for the government. If you have worked consistently, you should receive assistance, period. Perhaps with some mandatory community service hours?

I have been on assistance, but I have also been off of it. I am frustrated by those who will not work, just to get 300 dollars a month cash for free. (most have a hustle off the books, too)

I think that if we had a system that helped create ways up and out, instead of a generational cesspool a lot would change.

BUT
One of the things that makes America the place that it is, is the absence of slums. We have no slums because even our poor and homeless have more services available to them than the common worker in undeveloped/emerging nations. As much as this system is broken, it serves a basic purpose.

[HondaB18]

I have two friends that have recently been unemployed for an extended period of time.

One was a chemical engineer. He made $80,000 a year before he got laid off.
He collected $50,000 a year from unemployment... and milked it for 2 years. Did he find another job? No. Did he look to go back to school? No. Did he sit on his ass, play WoW, write a lame novel (based on his D&D exploits), and go to the gym every single day with the intention of getting his personal trainer license (which he may have by now, but hasn't used it...)? Absolutely.
I also called THE DAY he got laid off, and spoke to his wife (who was at the time one of my closest friends.) I told her to have him call me, and I'd take him to work with me. I offered to give him some work to at least keep him afloat. I reorganized my Friday schedule so I would have work to do on Saturday, and said that I would pick him up at 8am on Saturday. I got a call at 8:30am on Saturday saying "I'm too bummed... I can't go with you today."
He didn't use that unemployment money to get back on his feet with another job, or put himself back in school to be worth more to the workplace. Hell, 2 years of unemployment... that's the perfect amount of time to earn a Masters degree!
I don't talk to him anymore, because he absolutely disgusts me. He's not a crackhead with 5 bastard kids... he's an educated son of a lawyer that found an easy ride, and took it.

My other friend, one that I consider to be my brother... He got laid off after working 10 years at Comcast (cable company.) He never finished college, and had very few marketable skills to get another job. He also has health issues which limit what he's capable of doing. The day he got laid off, he filed for unemployment. Called me and asked if I could give him work. Went and got a part time job at a local hospital delivering stuff overnight so he'd have medical insurance. Went to the local college to see what courses he could take to get certified as an ultrasound tech... then went back to unemployment to see how to get that schooling paid for. Unfortunately, things changed right before he went back to school, and he had to postpone that plan...
Right now, THAT friend is struggling. Right now, THAT friend could use the unemployment money to get back on his feet, and to better himself to be more useful in the workplace. THAT friend is not getting the help he needs.

The other lazy bum is milking the system, and living large.



Yes, I know unemployment isn't welfare... but it's the same concept. Money for those who need it, who aren't able to earn it themselves for a time.
For people like that first friend... it should be cut. For people like the second, it should be available.

Better than monster.com, deevs actually finds you the jobs.

Not sure how NJ is but unemployment insurance is paid here (in MA) by the company.

Yes you should. They are leeches to the society, and welfare(mhm taxpayers) shouldnt have to support them. I believe in Darwinism/survival of the fittest, and welfare, along with many other social programs prevent it.

Dont get me wrong, shit happens, and any civilized country should have a social net to put people back on their feet, but there should be a time limit, drug tests, etc... to make sure these people are actually getting back on their feet instead of sitting on their ass and being bums---->assbums. Determined people will get back on their feet no matter what(especially in America), and most likley feel ashamed to use money handed to them, therefore using it for however much they need.

Me and my family were all on welfare for 6mo-1yr when we first immigrated to this country. Now I get fucked by all the govt programs bc my parents own a business thats worth $xxx, and that means that I am not in financial need. But I dont take anything from my parents other than food and rent. I dont know anyone else in my CC that works as much as I. I still drive my cb7 while others are driving new cars getting aid.

I dont even like showing people were I live because people's natural instinct is to be jealous. I dont act rich, snotty, etc, and most of my friends have a wide financial background. I dont want people to see the house, cars in the driveway and then assume that I can pay whenever we go out. If I ever have to get dropped of my someone who dosent know where I live/ dont trust, I get dropped off in a close by neighborhood and walk. I dont like my dad picking me up because he drives a '10 s550, and people get that impression. What people dont know is that about the only thing me and my parents do together is sleep under the same roof. We're always busy with other shit to "spend quality time". Im lucky if I get to see him at 11-12 when he comes home and maybe get to talk for 15-30 min.

I actually told me dad NOT to lease the s550 because its not a smart $ move, etc. You know what he told me? If I didnt "buy" something, then I would just be paying more taxes and have nothing to show for it. Its that what we really want in this country?

If someone is rich, its most likley because they, or someone else worked for it. They dont owe anyone anything. Im gonna work my ass of so my kids wont have to, and Ill be damned if my hard work gets taken away from them to support some lazy fuck getting high on _____, and not actually trying in life. Fuck handouts, fuck leeches, fuck leaking tap's. Taxes should be a percentage all across the board, tax brackets are bullshit. Tax brackets are the reason rich people go to an extent to find loopholes and use them.

I could go on and on about this.........One of the reasons I left Canada to come back here, only to get slapped in the face by having Obama elected.

Your family and my family would get along well. Very well.

why aren't there ever any threads about how rich people scam the irs taking advantage of every loophole in existence paying less taxes on several millions than what some people pay on 40-50k?

There are tons of money laundering methods. Until you are in the upper tax bracket (250k) and have to pay the higher taxes you wouldn't understand. The richest people in the top percentile pay for the majority of support



http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html

Tons of other sources if you don't trust that one

i think we should take the welfare money and just build bridges...so people can get over it.

We would but then the people on welfare would just bitch and complain about why they are not able to sit on their ass and get free money. That was generalizing but still.

I bet are not paying as much tax as me/the average Joe??? Ammmmmiright?

From your post about how much you make, the average Joe and I pay much more for taxes than you. Don't take that the wrong way but it would hold more weight.

[4CYLPOWER92]

I was an eligibility worker for 4 years. Not an easy job. You get lied to constantly. You deal with stupid people everyday who think that if they get denied it's because you don't like them.
Sure, they get free money. It's not enough money to live on unless you get free room and board from someone else. A lot of them play the homeless game. They pretend to be homeless thinking it helps them to get more money. It doesn't really.
Most people don't stay on it very long. Bill Clinton reformed welfare back in '96 and made it difficult for the 'lifers', aka people on welfare for life.

If the parent or parents refuse to participate in job programs they get sanctioned. Lets say a family of 5 (including both parants) is on welfare. At first they get money for all 5 people. But if the parants get sanctioned, they only get money for the children....3 people.

Sure, maybe the parents spend it all on drugs and the kids don't get what they need. Maybe the grandparents take care of the kids while the parents cash the checks and get high.

It's pretty sick actually. The system has holes in it. Thats for sure.
There are fraud investigators. For some time every case was refered to fraud investigators. Usually though, you only make the referal when you know you are being lied to and you suspect fraud. Some people go to jail. Most just get denied the aid.

[JohnD1079]

Speaking of Unemplyment, on one of our snow days/storm's I was trying to call into work to deliver(because everyone else is scared to drive) only to find out after I texted the "manager" that my pizza shop closed up shop the night before. After I went there to check it out, I was out hitting up/calling other pizza places for work. Less than 2 hrs after I found out I didnt have that job, I was out working for another place, which turns out to be much better than my previous job.

Now I know I was kinda lucky, but the point is when I found out I didnt have that job anymore, I didnt just lounge around the house on the snow day like everyone else. I knew if I was going to land a job, it would be right then and there while it was snowing. I was determined, and it paid off.

[jdmwannabee]

Better than monster.com, deevs actually finds you the jobs.

Not sure how NJ is but unemployment insurance is paid here (in MA) by the company.



Your family and my family would get along well. Very well.



There are tons of money laundering methods. Until you are in the upper tax bracket (250k) and have to pay the higher taxes you wouldn't understand. The richest people in the top percentile pay for the majority of support



http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html

Tons of other sources if you don't trust that one



We would but then the people on welfare would just bitch and complain about why they are not able to sit on their ass and get free money. That was generalizing but still.



From your post about how much you make, the average Joe and I pay much more for taxes than you. Don't take that the wrong way but it would hold more weight.

why wouldn't i understand? how do you know what i make from a post of a vague statement? do you know me or what i know? no. don't come at me with that net contribution garbage. get off your high horse, please.

my point was/is it's always easier to point out fraud/ abuse in the welfare system because nobody likes poor people. it's easy to say "omg! they're poor because they're lazy" and "my tax dollars pay for x y z" as opposed to really looking at the situation and understanding it.

how many people know someone that knows someone that knows someone on welfare driving an escalade or a bimmer or some other fancy crap. how many people actually know someone first hand abusing the welfare system? if the abuse were as rampant as some would like us to think, don't you think you'd hear about it more?

but when it comes to rich folks, legislation and even posturing is taboo because "they provide the most support to the system".

I'm not in the top 5%. so, my opinion is invalid according to you, because you pay more taxes than i do.

[JohnD1079]

you can tell just from your attitude.

[jdmwannabee]

what attitude i asked a question

why aren't there any threads about people complaining about rich people and their "tax breaks"?

[JohnD1079]

bc rich people have to use those "tax breaks" to be rich.

It pisses me off that from a $10.47/hr job I get ~$9/hr in my pocket. Imagine how pissed you would be if you only got $6/hr. Or alternativly, Imagine you were getting paid $15/hr, but only got $9/hr in your pocket. Wouldnt you want to do something about that?

[tresexohcb]

"Rich People" even with all the tax breaks contribute over 70% of the US's collected taxes. It may suck that they get all the tax breaks, but if you had to pay the tax % they do, you'd want tax breaks to.

[jdmwannabee]

bc rich people have to use those "tax breaks" to be rich.

It pisses me off that from a $10.47/hr job I get ~$9/hr in my pocket. Imagine how pissed you would be if you only got $6/hr. Or alternativly, Imagine you were getting paid $15/hr, but only got $9/hr in your pocket. Wouldnt you want to do something about that?

that's not what i'm talking about.

what i'm talking about is an annual salary vs. bonus pay/ incentives, b.s. tax write offs (that brand new business yacht or car or "home office"), etc.
yes, that's how they stay rich. i'm not mad at that all. i'm ok with that.

what i am trying to understand is, even though white collar crime costs us more (tax evasion, laundering, etc), how come people aren't making more threads about it. welfare abuse didn't cause the economic downturn and isn't what's hindering economic recovery.

i hope the OP isn't taking this personally, it's not. welfare threads come up very often. i just want to know why. to me, it seems like there's this anger towards poor people. also, there's this stigma about people on welfare. again, i just want to know why.

if people are so upset over the extra couple hundred dollars welfare abusers are stealing from the bottom, why aren't they upset about the real money that's being siphoned off at the top?

[jdmwannabee]

"Rich People" even with all the tax breaks contribute over 70% of the US's collected taxes. It may suck that they get all the tax breaks, but if you had to pay the tax % they do, you'd want tax breaks to.

i'm not talking about the small business owner who is just beyond the threshold of 250k i'm talking about people with networths of several million even billion dollars... like a warren buffet even he admits that he doesn't pay as nearly as much in taxes as he should

[tresexohcb]

welfare abuse didn't cause the economic downturn and isn't what's hindering economic recovery.

It has actually, but it's not an anger towards poor people, it's an anger towards those people walking into walmart with food stamps and driving off in their escalades. That's what's angering about the welfare system.

[LadyG]

if people are so upset over the extra couple hundred dollars welfare abusers are stealing from the bottom, why aren't they upset about the real money that's being siphoned off at the top?

This is a veryy good point.

[tresexohcb]

43.2 million people were on welfare in 2008 (I went with the figures preceeding the big recession hit) The average single person on welfare recieves 300$ in benefits = 12.9 Billion. Does that change your thoughts on the big dogs yet?

[JohnD1079]

that's not what i'm talking about.

what i'm talking about is an annual salary vs. bonus pay/ incentives, b.s. tax write offs (that brand new business yacht or car or "home office"), etc.
yes, that's how they stay rich. i'm not mad at that all. i'm ok with that.

There are different levels of rich. Some write off cars, some write off yachts. Are you concerned about the amount of $$ or the principle.

It kind of is, but on a much larger and different scale. They wont be able to keep the money, so might as well buy tangible things that they can enjoy. Im sure that many of them would rather save the money to use later, but tax brackets make that the dumber move.