Welfare

[JohnD1079]

43.2 million people were on welfare in 2008 (I went with the figures preceeding the big recession hit) The average single person on welfare recieves 300$ in benefits = 12.9 Billion. Does that change your thoughts on the big dogs yet?

$1 soda here, $3 fast food there, and $5 ciggs over there. Its only a couple bucks right?

[deevergote]

Welfare, tax breaks, unemployment, etc...

None of it is bad when used as intended. It's only when people take advantage that it becomes a problem.

Financial assistance should be given ONLY as a means of putting someone in a better position to be self-sufficient (the only exception would be the disabled... and although I have no stats in front of me, I'm quite sure the number of non-disabled people on government aid greatly outnumber those that are disabled.)
If no steps are taken to better one's position (such as staying off drugs, getting an education, getting a job, etc...) then aid should be denied. If a parent has so many children that they are unable to support them, then the children should be placed in foster care. The practice of having large amounts of children to cash in on welfare is absoutely apalling, and it does happen.

[tresexohcb]

The practice of having large amounts of children to cash in on welfare is absoutely apalling, and it does happen.

Unfortunately it happens more often then not.

[jdmwannabee]

43.2 million people were on welfare in 2008 (I went with the figures preceeding the big recession hit) The average single person on welfare recieves 300$ in benefits = 12.9 Billion. Does that change your thoughts on the big dogs yet?

how much of the $300 in benefits is actual cash though? not all people who receive welfare receive cash money.

[tresexohcb]

how much of the $300 in benefits is actual cash though? not all people who receive welfare receive cash money.

That's average cash benefits (taft, foodstamps, housing assistance) If you totalled the health care benefits and so on so fourth, the figures would be even more mind blowing.

[HondaB18]

why wouldn't i understand? how do you know what i make from a post of a vague statement? do you know me or what i know? no. don't come at me with that net contribution garbage. get off your high horse, please.

my point was/is it's always easier to point out fraud/ abuse in the welfare system because nobody likes poor people. it's easy to say "omg! they're poor because they're lazy" and "my tax dollars pay for x y z" as opposed to really looking at the situation and understanding it.

how many people know someone that knows someone that knows someone on welfare driving an escalade or a bimmer or some other fancy crap. how many people actually know someone first hand abusing the welfare system? if the abuse were as rampant as some would like us to think, don't you think you'd hear about it more?

but when it comes to rich folks, legislation and even posturing is taboo because "they provide the most support to the system".

I'm not in the top 5%. so, my opinion is invalid according to you, because you pay more taxes than i do.

If you pay a high rate for taxes knowing it will contribute to a majority of people that will abuse the system are you content with that? I'm not in the top 5% nor do I claim I am rich, how can I.

Never said poor people, just people that abuse the system (as pointed out by other members that can actually comprehend my texts). Feel free to swing by Boston, I'll give you a tour of all the government housing/projects and we'll count how many cars are above the 40k range. I'm not even joking about that, take me up on my offer...

The welfare debate have been on the news and is a topic discussed many times. I don't have time to post all the links from google (seems like you've already consulted with google from your posts) but you can take your pick. Please read more on Bill Clinton's law. Lots of holes but one major one should be "state welfare."

Rich people are the ones that own/run businesses. You think America will do well if all the large corporations fail or leave. You must not have taken economics or have the mindset of an intellectual to surpass the norm to reach the goals of the higher income bracket.

Net contribution garbage? Its facts dude. You want to ignore facts then it'll just be a stupid two way opinion thread. Why drag myself into that and get beat by experience. And BTW your posts are enough for me to judge your income. You can do the same for me, I'll make it easier for you. My annual salary is $1.

what attitude i asked a question

why aren't there any threads about people complaining about rich people and their "tax breaks"?

Feel free to make one, I'll even comment on it.

that's not what i'm talking about.

what i'm talking about is an annual salary vs. bonus pay/ incentives, b.s. tax write offs (that brand new business yacht or car or "home office"), etc.
yes, that's how they stay rich. i'm not mad at that all. i'm ok with that.

what i am trying to understand is, even though white collar crime costs us more (tax evasion, laundering, etc), how come people aren't making more threads about it. welfare abuse didn't cause the economic downturn and isn't what's hindering economic recovery.

i hope the OP isn't taking this personally, it's not. welfare threads come up very often. i just want to know why. to me, it seems like there's this anger towards poor people. also, there's this stigma about people on welfare. again, i just want to know why.

if people are so upset over the extra couple hundred dollars welfare abusers are stealing from the bottom, why aren't they upset about the real money that's being siphoned off at the top?

So let me get this straight, the top 5% pay a hefty tax rate. On top of that you want to siphon more money from them. Why? I mean it is their smarts that got them to where they are. Its not like you don't have the same opportunity, you just didn't do it right. Don't hate on other's success, that is hater status right there.

Guy A with annual salary of 500,000 goes into a store to buy a pack of gum for $1. Guy B with annual salary of 1,000,000 goes into the same store to buy a pack of gum and gets charged $2. Now does that seem fair? I didn't think so.

The difference between the extra couple hundred to the real money is that the people with the "real" money earned it somehow while the "bottom feeders" did not. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

White collar are not costing us anything, it is the other way around.

i'm not talking about the small business owner who is just beyond the threshold of 250k i'm talking about people with networths of several million even billion dollars... like a warren buffet even he admits that he doesn't pay as nearly as much in taxes as he should

I'm confident I know more about Warren Buffet than you. And his statement was referring to the fact that his secretary pays more for tax than him, percentage wise. Under normal circumstances that may not be true because they get taxed more, but it is Warren Buffet... He is a very smart and wealthy guy. He can afford the best accountants.

[jdmwannabee]

my point is this...

you have to be really poor to qualify for welfare (TANF and housing assistance are different beasts)
a family of 4 would have to make less than 30k a year to qualify for an extra 9k a year. i've had a 39k yr and i am single with no kids and it was rough for me.
yes, there are abusers of the system. however, the abusers do not make up the majority of the users of the system. they are a small minority.

why is there so much ire towards such a small percentage of the population? do people really think everyone on welfare drives a caddy and has the latest fashions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s

[HondaB18]

my point is this...

you have to be really poor to qualify for welfare (TANF and housing assistance are different beasts)
a family of 4 would have to make less than 30k a year to qualify for an extra 9k a year. i've had a 39k yr and i am single with no kids and it was rough for me.
yes, there are abusers of the system. however, the abusers do not make up the majority of the users of the system. they are a small minority.

why is there so much ire towards such a small percentage of the population? do people really think everyone on welfare drives a caddy and has the latest fashions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s

Ok... so what was the point of the youtube video? You've basically just typed in keywords like Warren Buffet tax and secretary. Basically stuff I just mentioned in my previous post. Bet you if I didn't mention those you wouldn't have found the video which I saw when it first aired. Warren Buffet does not speak for all the billionaires, if he wants to donate all his wealth (which he says he is) then he is free to do so. Its called choice.

I've been to Georgia, you can be living comfortably with 39k. Even my friend that lives in NYC where it is more expensive can live on his own for 35k. He isn't living in a penthouse dining at the fanciest restaurant but he also isn't living in a cardboard box on the streets.

You've been through the recent economic crisis, link that to welfare.

Care to address my other points? Seeing as how I was nice enough to address yours.

[bobbycos]

what attitude i asked a question

why aren't there any threads about people complaining about rich people and their "tax breaks"?

Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees just bought a condo for 6.5 million and is only paying $1,200 in taxes FOR THE YEAR ON IT

if jobs were brought back here instead og going overseas welfare could possibly cease to exist. except for the real assbums who will never amount to anything

[ChIoVnIdCa]

The most wealthy pay the the vast majority of taxes collected in the US because they hold the vast majority of the wealth... The gap between the super wealthy and mid class has never been higher...


The people that are getting screwed are the middle class.... If you make 90k you pay about 28% of your income in taxes ... If you make 6 billion you pay 35% of your income... I bet zero percent of people in the upper 35% tax bracket pay close to 35% although they do pay alot of taxes based on there wealth....

Poor people do not pay taxes compare to what they leach... So they cant bitch. This may be mean or not politically correct but if you are not mentally or physically disabled there is no excuse to be long term poor.

Another thing I was thinking about... Say you pay 10k a year in property taxes and so does everyone else on your street... Say the people on the next street pay 5k.. Should your street be paved more often?... plowed first?

[MikeW]

Drug testing for welfare inserts the government into personal matters, and opens the door for a lot of other nasty civil rights infringements. That policy is best left to the privet sector.

Welfare should be based on work history. If you have none, you work for the government. If you have worked consistently, you should receive assistance, period. Perhaps with some mandatory community service hours?

I have been on assistance, but I have also been off of it. I am frustrated by those who will not work, just to get 300 dollars a month cash for free. (most have a hustle off the books, too)

I think that if we had a system that helped create ways up and out, instead of a generational cesspool a lot would change.

BUT
One of the things that makes America the place that it is, is the absence of slums. We have no slums because even our poor and homeless have more services available to them than the common worker in undeveloped/emerging nations. As much as this system is broken, it serves a basic purpose.

I think they should drug test people on welfare but that would not only cost a shit ton of money, they'd have to drug test other people receiving money from the state, like state workers and they wont have that. They wont have that at all. It'd snowball. Start drug testing welfare recipients, then you'd have to test state employees, then officials, then law enforcement, etc etc. It would cost an asinine amount of money to do so. Which sucks because, as i stated earlier, i think people should be tested. WE, the government, the people--are giving them money to survive. What are they doing with it? Sitting on their asses and living off of it, not tryng to better themselves. Loan a lazy, drug-addicted friend $500 and tell me you wont be pissed that they're not doing anything to pay you back.

And either PA state or Philadelphia, one of the two, has a program where you dont get your state-provided money until you've worked a 40-hour work week. Now THAT is the way to do it. They may not be paying back INTO the system but theyre at least contributing to society.

how many people know someone that knows someone that knows someone on welfare driving an escalade or a bimmer or some other fancy crap. how many people actually know someone first hand abusing the welfare system? if the abuse were as rampant as some would like us to think, don't you think you'd hear about it more?

Me. And it disgusts me. It really does.

Here's a little story about my dad; he wasnt around when I grew up. I was raised by a single who was on food stamps and occassionally sectin-8 housing. We were never on welfare but we on a few state-run government programs. We needed it. I watched her go through several boyfriends, all of which helped with what they could. We lived with grandmas and aunts and family members because it either wasnt enough or because my mom had to work two jobs. My dad was only paying $250/month child support because he said he worked some minimum wage job. Come to find out, he was working for his dad making $30k a year. How do i know that? Because he and his father TOLD ME. After me and my brother turned 18, of course. My dad owns his own business. I dont know how much he makes a year, but he only works Oct - April and he travels the country the rest of the year. Oh and he just bought a brand new $60k pick-up--with cash. Hell, he bought my grandpas truck off of him a few years back, with $20k cash. He even let me hold the "stack". AND--and--he has money buried in safes on his property. Again, I know because he showed me. He lied to the state to get out child support and he wants to be nice to me? I dont think so asshole. He didnt have to see the struggle we went through. Ive seen the way he lives. He buys cheap clothes, cheap groceries and scrimps and saves for what? HE doesnt live outside his means, he doesnt even live within hi means, he lives UNDER his means. Boy i sure hope hes saving that money to will me when he dies, otherwise itll go unclaimed and sit underground forever. He's also very smart. He pays his employees cash under the table and they have to sign a waiver when they start working there stating that he wont provide them insurance or if they get hurt, its on them. He has friends in every aspect of business so any kind of "jobs" he needs done, be it concrete or building or anything--he has a buddy hook him up. Again, he's skirting the system.

My point is, Ive seen the "high rollers" jip the system. And it effected me directly. All those years, he lied to skip out on paying child support for what? So he could sock away a few extra grand? He also buys drugs with it. Just pot, but nonetheless. He fills his hot tub with culligan water. He rigs up all his cars to not count mileage on the speedometers so he can re-sell them later with "low miles". Dont get me wrong, i love lifehacks, but sometimes you need to be careful of who they hurt. It's the butterfly effect; it may seem like peanuts to you but somewhere, that's hurting someone.

Welfare, tax breaks, unemployment, etc...

None of it is bad when used as intended. It's only when people take advantage that it becomes a problem.

Financial assistance should be given ONLY as a means of putting someone in a better position to be self-sufficient (the only exception would be the disabled... and although I have no stats in front of me, I'm quite sure the number of non-disabled people on government aid greatly outnumber those that are disabled.)
If no steps are taken to better one's position (such as staying off drugs, getting an education, getting a job, etc...) then aid should be denied. If a parent has so many children that they are unable to support them, then the children should be placed in foster care. The practice of having large amounts of children to cash in on welfare is absoutely apalling, and it does happen.

And unfortunately, thats not the case. It's free money and the government knows theyre sitting on their ass, so why should they get up and work?

i've had a 39k yr and i am single with no kids and it was rough for me.

Me and my ex supported ourselves on hourly McDonald's pay. Combined, we probably made $25k a year. You might need to reconsider your lifestyle.

[jdmwannabee]

Ok... so what was the point of the youtube video? You've basically just typed in keywords like Warren Buffet tax and secretary. Basically stuff I just mentioned in my previous post. Bet you if I didn't mention those you wouldn't have found the video which I saw when it first aired. Warren Buffet does not speak for all the billionaires, if he wants to donate all his wealth (which he says he is) then he is free to do so. Its called choice.

I've been to Georgia, you can be living comfortably with 39k. Even my friend that lives in NYC where it is more expensive can live on his own for 35k. He isn't living in a penthouse dining at the fanciest restaurant but he also isn't living in a cardboard box on the streets.

You've been through the recent economic crisis, link that to welfare.

Care to address my other points? Seeing as how I was nice enough to address yours.

yes, because you are the only person to have watched that warren buffett interview.

i just moved to georgia in september. that 39k was my gross pay. after taxes, tuition (that increases annually), rent, food, utilities, etc

i never linked welfare fraud to economic crisis. in fact, i said the opposite.

your other points were insults aimed at my lack of education and lamenting about how dumb and lazy poor people are and how smart and productive rich people are.

[jdmwannabee]

I think they should drug test people on welfare but that would not only cost a shit ton of money, they'd have to drug test other people receiving money from the state, like state workers and they wont have that. They wont have that at all. It'd snowball. Start drug testing welfare recipients, then you'd have to test state employees, then officials, then law enforcement, etc etc. It would cost an asinine amount of money to do so. Which sucks because, as i stated earlier, i think people should be tested. WE, the government, the people--are giving them money to survive. What are they doing with it? Sitting on their asses and living off of it, not tryng to better themselves. Loan a lazy, drug-addicted friend $500 and tell me you wont be pissed that they're not doing anything to pay you back.

And either PA state or Philadelphia, one of the two, has a program where you dont get your state-provided money until you've worked a 40-hour work week. Now THAT is the way to do it. They may not be paying back INTO the system but theyre at least contributing to society.


Me. And it disgusts me. It really does.

Here's a little story about my dad; he wasnt around when I grew up. I was raised by a single who was on food stamps and occassionally sectin-8 housing. We were never on welfare but we on a few state-run government programs. We needed it. I watched her go through several boyfriends, all of which helped with what they could. We lived with grandmas and aunts and family members because it either wasnt enough or because my mom had to work two jobs. My dad was only paying $250/month child support because he said he worked some minimum wage job. Come to find out, he was working for his dad making $30k a year. How do i know that? Because he and his father TOLD ME. After me and my brother turned 18, of course. My dad owns his own business. I dont know how much he makes a year, but he only works Oct - April and he travels the country the rest of the year. Oh and he just bought a brand new $60k pick-up--with cash. Hell, he bought my grandpas truck off of him a few years back, with $20k cash. He even let me hold the "stack". AND--and--he has money buried in safes on his property. Again, I know because he showed me. He lied to the state to get out child support and he wants to be nice to me? I dont think so asshole. He didnt have to see the struggle we went through. Ive seen the way he lives. He buys cheap clothes, cheap groceries and scrimps and saves for what? HE doesnt live outside his means, he doesnt even live within hi means, he lives UNDER his means. Boy i sure hope hes saving that money to will me when he dies, otherwise itll go unclaimed and sit underground forever. He's also very smart. He pays his employees cash under the table and they have to sign a waiver when they start working there stating that he wont provide them insurance or if they get hurt, its on them. He has friends in every aspect of business so any kind of "jobs" he needs done, be it concrete or building or anything--he has a buddy hook him up. Again, he's skirting the system.

My point is, Ive seen the "high rollers" jip the system. And it effected me directly. All those years, he lied to skip out on paying child support for what? So he could sock away a few extra grand? He also buys drugs with it. Just pot, but nonetheless. He fills his hot tub with culligan water. He rigs up all his cars to not count mileage on the speedometers so he can re-sell them later with "low miles". Dont get me wrong, i love lifehacks, but sometimes you need to be careful of who they hurt. It's the butterfly effect; it may seem like peanuts to you but somewhere, that's hurting someone.


And unfortunately, thats not the case. It's free money and the government knows theyre sitting on their ass, so why should they get up and work?


Me and my ex supported ourselves on hourly McDonald's pay. Combined, we probably made $25k a year. You might need to reconsider your lifestyle.

you have a somewhat rare first hand perspective of someone scamming the system. if you can prove it, report it. also you can take him to court, if you want.

i was doing ok. i wasn't struggling, but i wasn't balling out either. i was making it.

[jdmwannabee]

If you pay a high rate for taxes knowing it will contribute to a majority of people that will abuse the system are you content with that? I'm not in the top 5% nor do I claim I am rich, how can I.

The majority don't abuse the system.

Never said poor people, just people that abuse the system (as pointed out by other members that can actually comprehend my texts). Feel free to swing by Boston, I'll give you a tour of all the government housing/projects and we'll count how many cars are above the 40k range. I'm not even joking about that, take me up on my offer...

a 40k car was incredibly easy to get if you knew someone with decent credit to cosign for you. now a days credit is a little harder to come by, but it's still not impossible.

The welfare debate have been on the news and is a topic discussed many times. I don't have time to post all the links from google (seems like you've already consulted with google from your posts) but you can take your pick. Please read more on Bill Clinton's law. Lots of holes but one major one should be "state welfare."

Rich people are the ones that own/run businesses. You think America will do well if all the large corporations fail or leave. You must not have taken economics or have the mindset of an intellectual to surpass the norm to reach the goals of the higher income bracket.

i pointed out that it comes up a lot. my question was why don't we talk about reforming tax laws. and multinational/ large corporations don't provide most of the jobs in this country. they've already left/ outsourced. jobs in this country are provided by small businesses.

Net contribution garbage? Its facts dude. You want to ignore facts then it'll just be a stupid two way opinion thread. Why drag myself into that and get beat by experience. And BTW your posts are enough for me to judge your income. You can do the same for me, I'll make it easier for you. My annual salary is $1.

net contribution is garbage because we live in a society that was supposedly based on communal living. so why bring up/ complain about something that is innate in the type of society we live in?

or should the middle class and lower class feel shame and bow to our rich masters because they own the country?

So let me get this straight, the top 5% pay a hefty tax rate. On top of that you want to siphon more money from them. Why? I mean it is their smarts that got them to where they are. Its not like you don't have the same opportunity, you just didn't do it right. Don't hate on other's success, that is hater status right there.

taxes for the top 5% are at a historical low... they were pretty steep 20-30 years ago.

Guy A with annual salary of 500,000 goes into a store to buy a pack of gum for $1. Guy B with annual salary of 1,000,000 goes into the same store to buy a pack of gum and gets charged $2. Now does that seem fair? I didn't think so.

that has nothing to do with what we're discussing. that would be a sales tax. i'm talking about income. but you knew that already, so i don't know where you were going with that one.

The difference between the extra couple hundred to the real money is that the people with the "real" money earned it somehow while the "bottom feeders" did not. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

White collar are not costing us anything, it is the other way around.



I'm confident I know more about Warren Buffet than you. And his statement was referring to the fact that his secretary pays more for tax than him, percentage wise. Under normal circumstances that may not be true because they get taxed more, but it is Warren Buffet... He is a very smart and wealthy guy. He can afford the best accountants.

once again, mass categorization of "poor" people as lazy and dumb and rich people as smart and productive followed by an ad hominem.

once again, we're talking about proportion of income as opposed to actual amount.

15% of 100 is going to be more than 15% of 10. if you have 100, why should you be paying the same rate or lower than someone who has 10.

[JohnD1079]

if jobs were brought back here instead og going overseas welfare could possibly cease to exist. except for the real assbums who will never amount to anything

If people didnt demand way over what they're worth, then the jobs would still be here. Unions and people feeling entitled to a lot more than they deserved caused that.

Another thing I was thinking about... Say you pay 10k a year in property taxes and so does everyone else on your street... Say the people on the next street pay 5k.. Should your street be paved more often?... plowed first?

Yes, it does.