Is it just me or is Iran not fooling anyone?

[Ralphie]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40412396...deastn_africa/

They claim "Iran has its limits on its patience"
"Once that limit is reached there are bad consequences"

Yet they claim that they're enrichment activities are for "peaceful purposes including electricity".

Really? All from a country who's president won't even recognize Israel as a country, rather a zionist controlled area?

All of a sudden there worried about electricity?

Give me a fucking break.

Count your days ahmedinjad because they are numbered.

[jdmwannabee]

TEHRAN, Iran — Assailants on motorcycles attached magnetized bombs to the cars of two nuclear scientists as they were driving to work in Tehran on Monday, killing one and wounding the other, Iranian officials said. The president accused Israel and the West of being behind the attacks.

Iran's nuclear chief, Ali Akbar Salehi, said the man killed was involved in a major project with the country's nuclear agency, though he did not give specifics. Some Iranian media reported that the wounded scientist was a laser expert at Iran's Defense Ministry and one of the country's few top specialists in nuclear isotope separation.

Iranian officials said they suspected the assassination was part of a covert campaign aimed at damaging the country's nuclear program, which the United States and its allies says is intended to build a weapon — a claim Tehran denies. At least two other Iranian nuclear scientists have been killed in recent years, one of them in an attack similar to Monday's.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told a press conference that "undoubtedly, the hand of the Zionist regime and Western governments is involved in the assassination."

..But he said the attack would not hamper the nuclear program and vowed that one day Iran would take retribution. "The day in the near future when time will come for taking them into account, their file will be very thick," he said.

Asked about the Iranian accusations, Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said Israel did not comment on such matters. Washington has strongly denied any link to previous attacks.

The attacks, as described by Iranian officials, appeared sophisticated.

In each case, assailants on motorcycles approached the cars as they were moving through Tehran and attached magnetized bombs to the vehicles, Tehran police chief Hossein Sajednia said. The bombs exploded seconds later, he said, according to the state news agency IRNA.

He said no one has been arrested in connection with the attack nor no one has so far claimed responsibility.

The bombings both took place in the morning, but there were conflicting reports on what time each took place. The bombs went off in two separate locations, in north and northeast Tehran, that lie about a 15-minute drive apart without traffic.

The slain scientist, Majid Shahriari, was a member of the nuclear engineering faculty at Shahid Beheshti University in Tehran. His wife, who was in the car with him, was wounded.

..Shahriari cooperated with the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, said Salehi, a vice president who heads the organization. "He was involved in one of the big AEOI projects, which is a source of pride for the Iranian nation," Salehi said, according to IRNA, without giving any details on the project. Salehi also said the killed scientist was one of his own students.

The AEOI is in charge of Iran's nuclear activities — including its uranium enrichment program, which the United Nations has demanded be halted.

The other attack targeted scientist Fereidoun Abbasi, who was wounded along with his wife.

A pro-government website, mashreghnews.ir, said Abbasi held a Ph.D. in nuclear physics and has long been a member of the Revolutionary Guard, the country's most powerful military force. It said he was also a lecturer at Imam Hossein University, affiliated to the Guard. The United States accuses the Guard of having a role in Iran's nuclear program.

The site said Abbasi was a laser expert at Iran's Defense Ministry and one of few top Iranian specialists in nuclear isotope separation.

Isotope separation — meaning the isolating of a specific isotope of an element — is a process needed for a range of purposes, from producing enriched uranium fuel for a reactor, to manufacturing medical isotopes to producing a bomb.

Iran says its nuclear program is intended entirely for peaceful purposes, including producing electricity. The U.N. has demanded a halt to uranium enrichment because it can be used to produce reactor fuel or a bomb, but Tehran insists it has a right to pursue the technology.

Iran has continued to portray its nuclear program as being under constant pressure from the West and its allies. These include alleged abductions of nuclear officials and, more recently, a computer worm known as Stuxnet that experts say was calibrated to destroy uranium-enrichment centrifuges by sending them spinning out of control. Iran says its experts stopped Stuxnet from affecting systems at its nuclear facilities.

Monday's attacks bore close similarities to another in January that killed Tehran University professor Masoud Ali Mohammadi, a senior physics professor. He was killed when a bomb-rigged motorcycle exploded near his car as he was about to leave for work.

In 2007, state TV reported that nuclear scientist, Ardeshir Hosseinpour, died from gas poisoning. A one-week delay in the reporting of his death prompted speculation about the cause, including that Israel's Mossad spy agency was to blame.

The latest attacks come a day after the release of internal State Department cables by the whistle-blower website Wikileaks, including several that vividly detail Arab fears over Iran's nuclear program and its growing political ambitions in the region.

Arab worries over Iran often have been expressed in public in careful, diplomatic language by officials in the Gulf and elsewhere. The messages obtained by Wikileaks, however, appear to reflect the urgency of the concerns and the impression that a U.S.-led attack on Iranian nuclear facilities would be welcomed by some leaders of Arab nations in the Middle East, especially the oil-rich states that neighbor Iran in the Persian Gulf.

Salehi, the nuclear chief, issued a stern warning as he rushed to hospital to see the surviving scientist.

"Don't play with fire. The patience of the Iranian nation has limits. If it runs out of patience, bad consequences will await enemies," he said at Abbasi's bedside, according to IRNA, apparently referring to Israel and the U.S.

Lawmaker Javad Jahangirzadeh said Israel was behind the attacks and was trying to "create an atmosphere of fear and intimidation to stop the progress of our scientists."

There are several active armed groups that oppose Iran's ruling clerics, but it's unclear whether they could have carried out the apparently coordinated bombings in the capital. Most anti-government violence in recent years has been isolated to Iran's provinces such the border with Pakistan where Sunni rebels are active and the western mountains near Iraq where Kurdish separatists operate.

sounds like israel's m.o.
let's not forget the hotel assassination last year.
israel operatives using other countries' passports to get into the uae.
i'm neither here nor there on the issue though...

[Ralphie]

sounds like israel's m.o.
let's not forget the hotel assassination last year.
israel operatives using other countries' passports to get into the uae.
i'm neither here nor there on the issue though...

Why did you quote the whole article?

That is why i posted a link

Either way yes Israel is probably behind the attacks but they do it out of a need to survive.

Keep in mind they are constantly attacked daily by Hezbollah and other terrorist groups.

The point is....if Iran gets a nuclear program going....they will attempt to make weapons.

[deevergote]

The difference between Israel and Iran is that Israel isn't looking to eliminate anyone. They want to stay where they are. Not expand, not destroy, just remain. Most of their government-sanctioned attacks are of a "strike first" defensive nature.

Iran, as stated, does not recognize Israel as a country, and would probably take it over if they were given the chance.
They have also expressed a desire to attack other nations, such as the US.


Iran IS a threat.
I firmly believe that Iran is the reason we took Iraq. We didn't go in to liberate the Iraqis, or destroy WMAs. We didn't attack Iraq because Saddam was a supporter of Bin Laden. We took Iraq so we could have a military presence on Iran's doorstep. We remain in Iraq not to "stabilize the country", but to retain that military presence. We just can't say that officially, because such an outright statement would be as good as a declaration of war.

Iran's purposes MAY be peaceful in nature in this specific instance, but allowing them to develop a nuclear program (and the materials necessary for nuclear weapons) when they've practically admitted that they'd use such technology against us would be stupid.


Iran and North Korea are two countries that we can't afford to ignore. And by "we", I don't mean the US... I mean the rest of the sane world!

[ChIoVnIdCa]

I think of it as if I was in charge of a independent country what is anyone else to say about whether or not I use/experiment in nuclear power or weapons.. Especially country's with nuclear programs of there own. So I understand where they are coming from..


It would of course be bad if they become nuclear capable (if they are really not at this moment) and I would be all for taken them out.. Or just telling Israel to... They know what they need to do to protect themselves and I'm sure we are behind alot of the covert stuff they pull off.. They are the number one country in dollars received from the United States in Aid.

[Tippey764]

Its just you.

[jdmwannabee]

Why did you quote the whole article?

That is why i posted a link

Either way yes Israel is probably behind the attacks but they do it out of a need to survive.

Keep in mind they are constantly attacked daily by Hezbollah and other terrorist groups.

The point is....if Iran gets a nuclear program going....they will attempt to make weapons.

i quoted the article because not everyone can access links...
i really don't care about iran vs. israel etc...
israel could crush an american citizen with a backhoe and people would still defend them. oh wait did that really happen?

israel doesn't want to expand? so those expanding settlements and the whole gaza strip/ and an almost state sanctioned palestinian genocide thingy is just israel staying put and behaving...

iraq was an enemy of iran... go fig! the enemy of our enemy was our friend. that's what was going on in that region until we got too big for our britches. now they're all our enemies except for israel. other nations are questionable.

that part of the world isn't worth discussing until we all concede that it's not as black and white as we want it to be. the gray areas, the actual history of the region, and the reality of what's going on right now need to be taken into account before serious discussion can occur...

[deevergote]

I think of it as if I was in charge of a independent country what is anyone else to say about whether or not I use/experiment in nuclear power or weapons.. Especially country's with nuclear programs of there own. So I understand where they are coming from..


It would of course be bad if they become nuclear capable (if they are really not at this moment) and I would be all for taken them out.. Or just telling Israel to... They know what they need to do to protect themselves and I'm sure we are behind alot of the covert stuff they pull off.. They are the number one country in dollars received from the United States in Aid.

Until our presence in Iraq, Israel has pretty much been our military presence on Iran's doorstep. They are close allies that have no desire to harm the US. Therefore, Israel receives our aid against a common threat.

I agree that no foreign government should be able to dictate what one country can do... BUT, it would be stupid for anyone to say "ok, here's your nuclear capabilities... don't go attacking anyone with it, k? "
Iran has already threatened us, and others, with nuclear weapons that they do not have. It is more than reasonable to assume that they would threaten us with REAL weapons if they were given the ability to make them... and that any attempt to gain that ability should be taken as an act of aggression.

[Ralphie]

i quoted the article because not everyone can access links...
i really don't care about iran vs. israel etc...
israel could crush an american citizen with a backhoe and people would still defend them. oh wait did that really happen?

israel doesn't want to expand? so those expanding settlements and the whole gaza strip/ and an almost state sanctioned palestinian genocide thingy is just israel staying put and behaving...

iraq was an enemy of iran... go fig! the enemy of our enemy was our friend. that's what was going on in that region until we got too big for our britches. now they're all our enemies except for israel. other nations are questionable.

that part of the world isn't worth discussing until we all concede that it's not as black and white as we want it to be. the gray areas, the actual history of the region, and the reality of what's going on right now need to be taken into account before serious discussion can occur...

I think it's pretty clear why everyone supports Israel usually no matter what.

If you can't access a link how are you online?

Nevertheless, Israel is expanding because when they originally offered up land to the Palestinians the first, 2nd, and 3rd time around they were too greedy and wanted more then they rightly deserve.

Let me put it this way.

Does anyone else notice that before Israel was declared a seperate state 60 some odd years ago no one was interested in that land. It sat and no one cared.

Then when Israel stood up, everyone bitched and moaned and wanted to wipe them out.

Why?

Ignorance and hatred.....of the jewish state mostly but im sure for other reasons as well.

So after you offer someone to take land that they bitch about and they don't take it after this long isn't it like oh well?

Id build on the land.

Fuck them they were offered and they didn't take.

The only grey areas are the ones that the politicians created.

The UN etc.

[Ralphie]

Its just you.

Thanks for contributing to my thread.

[jdmwannabee]

I think it's pretty clear why everyone supports Israel usually no matter what.

If you can't access a link how are you online?

Nevertheless, Israel is expanding because when they originally offered up land to the Palestinians the first, 2nd, and 3rd time around they were too greedy and wanted more then they rightly deserve.

Let me put it this way.

Does anyone else notice that before Israel was declared a seperate state 60 some odd years ago no one was interested in that land. It sat and no one cared.

Then when Israel stood up, everyone bitched and moaned and wanted to wipe them out.

Why?

Ignorance and hatred.....of the jewish state mostly but im sure for other reasons as well.

So after you offer someone to take land that they bitch about and they don't take it after this long isn't it like oh well?

Id build on the land.

Fuck them they were offered and they didn't take.

i wasn't talking about me... i was saying that not everyone can access a link. people who might be surfing at work or something. it's a habit.

60yrs ago there were people living there.
the mandate that the brits passed is what caused what's going on now.
fact of the matter is that if there were no official israel, there would be no tension in the area.
now i'm not supporting eliminating israel but it is what it is.
jews (arab and ashkenazi) had been living in the area for a while before there was an official jewish state and after the mandate is when shit hit the fan.

[Night Wolf]

Iran and North Korea are two countries that we can't afford to ignore. And by "we", I don't mean the US... I mean the rest of the sane world!

x2

[Pandemic]

Iran is full of shite and everyone knows it. They have an enrichment facility (as does North Korea). Actually, the time when Iran gave up the fact that they had the super-deep enrichment facility was the same time that the US revealed their latest super-deep bunker buster. Coincidence?

Also, Israel is one of the last great countries on this planet. They're a country who would rather be proactive in defense of their citizens rather than waiting for something to happen and being reactive. Their airports are super safe and super efficient and the rest of the world should be paying attention.

[Ralphie]

i wasn't talking about me... i was saying that not everyone can access a link. people who might be surfing at work or something. it's a habit.

60yrs ago there were people living there.
the mandate that the brits passed is what caused what's going on now.
fact of the matter is that if there were no official israel, there would be no tension in the area.
now i'm not supporting eliminating israel but it is what it is.
jews (arab and ashkenazi) had been living in the area for a while before there was an official jewish state and after the mandate is when shit hit the fan.

it is what it is?

Why should they just give up land and their home because people dislike them? Because someone thinks they should not be there? People who think jews should be eradicated?

And on and on and on and on.

Iran is full of shite and everyone knows it. They have an enrichment facility (as does North Korea). Actually, the time when Iran gave up the fact that they had the super-deep enrichment facility was the same time that the US revealed their latest super-deep bunker buster. Coincidence?

Also, Israel is one of the last great countries on this planet. They're a country who would rather be proactive in defense of their citizens rather than waiting for something to happen and being reactive. Their airports are super safe and super efficient and the rest of the world should be paying attention.

x2

[owequitit]

The difference between Israel and Iran is that Israel isn't looking to eliminate anyone. They want to stay where they are. Not expand, not destroy, just remain. Most of their government-sanctioned attacks are of a "strike first" defensive nature.

Iran, as stated, does not recognize Israel as a country, and would probably take it over if they were given the chance.
They have also expressed a desire to attack other nations, such as the US.


Iran IS a threat.
I firmly believe that Iran is the reason we took Iraq. We didn't go in to liberate the Iraqis, or destroy WMAs. We didn't attack Iraq because Saddam was a supporter of Bin Laden. We took Iraq so we could have a military presence on Iran's doorstep. We remain in Iraq not to "stabilize the country", but to retain that military presence. We just can't say that officially, because such an outright statement would be as good as a declaration of war.

Iran's purposes MAY be peaceful in nature in this specific instance, but allowing them to develop a nuclear program (and the materials necessary for nuclear weapons) when they've practically admitted that they'd use such technology against us would be stupid.


Iran and North Korea are two countries that we can't afford to ignore. And by "we", I don't mean the US... I mean the rest of the sane world!

I just don't know that I agree with this stance. It sort of makes sense, but when you really look at it strategically, it doesn't add up. We could easily cross the Mediterranean and obliterate Iran without ever setting foot on the peninsula. It is likely that our presence interferes with their direct ability to transport and interact with the other countries in the area, but ultimately, that is a patchwork answer. I think the interactions of Iraq with the UN and the rest of the terrorist cells played a far more crucial role that people want to give it credit for (it is far more convenient to blame Bush for wanting oil, than to look at reality). The problem is context. As is usually the case, people neglect context. At the time, we had no idea how far involved Iraq was with other terrorist groups, nor did we know about his WMD programs, because the UN was not getting the access that they needed. Saddam also had a history of lying, cheating and stealing, so any rational human could wisely assume he was not being truthful with his money trails and weapons programs.

Of course, this all neglects the humanists we proclaim ourselves to be, and the way he treated people, and the things he did to them and focuses solely on rational motivation...

I think of it as if I was in charge of a independent country what is anyone else to say about whether or not I use/experiment in nuclear power or weapons.. Especially country's with nuclear programs of there own. So I understand where they are coming from..


It would of course be bad if they become nuclear capable (if they are really not at this moment) and I would be all for taken them out.. Or just telling Israel to... They know what they need to do to protect themselves and I'm sure we are behind alot of the covert stuff they pull off.. They are the number one country in dollars received from the United States in Aid.

The problem is that only once has nuclear power been used in anger, and it wasn't for power and politics. It was a decision based on potentially millions of additional lives lost.

The Cold War wasn't posturing for power and prosperity. We achieved that through technical innovation and hard work. The Cold War was designed to out-escalate the "bad guy" so that we could be reasonably sure that war would be prevented.

Iran has a far different scenario in mind, as does N. Korea. They assume that if they build the bomb, the world will cower to their demands. Unfortunately, they are wrong, because no matter how much they develop, we still have more. The real question that arises is what is going to happen if a political state possesses such a power, and they do not get their way, or see it as a political tool to alter the course of history in their favor?

I have no problem with enrichment for electricity. I simply do not believe that is their goal. Their actions speak louder than their words, and their actions and posturing don't say "we want cheap electricity."

Also, you might want to double check your facts, because I am pretty sure Egypt is the #1 receiver of US foreign aid.

I think it's pretty clear why everyone supports Israel usually no matter what.

If you can't access a link how are you online?

Nevertheless, Israel is expanding because when they originally offered up land to the Palestinians the first, 2nd, and 3rd time around they were too greedy and wanted more then they rightly deserve.

Let me put it this way.

Does anyone else notice that before Israel was declared a seperate state 60 some odd years ago no one was interested in that land. It sat and no one cared.

Then when Israel stood up, everyone bitched and moaned and wanted to wipe them out.

Why?

Ignorance and hatred.....of the jewish state mostly but im sure for other reasons as well.

So after you offer someone to take land that they bitch about and they don't take it after this long isn't it like oh well?

Id build on the land.

Fuck them they were offered and they didn't take.

The only grey areas are the ones that the politicians created.

The UN etc.

The problem goes beyond anything recent and even predates the Isreali state. Nat Geo did a spectacular documentary on how Hitler directly influenced the catastrophe that is the middle east, not only by persecuting the Jews (who fled in mass around the world to escape), but also how he had a direct link to Saddam's rise to power, and much of the rest of the political fallout.

It is a complex issue that will never be resolved until both parties realize they are only killing themselves. Every time there is an attack, there is a retaliation. Every time there is a retaliation, there is another, and so on, and so forth. And over what? A specific piece of land or proving who is right?

Also, sorry, but the Israelis are not always sweet and innocent. They have not always been attacked first, and there is no such thing as a defensive offense. I.E. They can't be defending themselves if they are the ones attacking. It doesn't work that way.