Added to the rules- re: knockoff parts

[deevergote]

Please do not discuss companies that offer cheap knockoffs of small-batch, high-quality items.
For example, if someone is copying the header designs of Bisimoto, Hytech, or SMSP, and it becomes common knowledge that these items are unauthorized copies, then any thread discussing them will be deleted. The author of the thread and participants in the discussion may be banned.
Supporting such knockoff companies is harmful to the companies that they are copying, and detrimental to our already limited aftermarket. If you support these knockoff artists, we will be left with NO quality aftermarket parts in the very near future.
However, companies like OBX and Megan Racing that copy mass-produced generic designs such as those made by DC Sports, are still acceptable.
If you are unsure if a company is an acceptable topic for discussion, please contact a moderator.

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Due to a recent discussion of a knockoff Hytech header, and people calling me unprofessional for not allowing such a thing to be supported in this community, I have officially added this to the rules of this forum.

These knockoff parts are a serious detriment to the companies they are copying, as well as our meager aftermarket as a whole. When some low-quality hack starts churning out parts that are of inferior quality to that of which they are copying, doing no R&D of their own, it drives the REAL companies out of business... or at the least, out of our market.

If you can't afford a quality part, then save up... or do without.
If you want a quality header, buy Bisimoto, Hytech, SMSP, etc...
If you can't afford one of those, put a 2.5" collector on a Megan header and be happy with that.
If you want the good stuff and don't want to pay the price, buy used.
If you support the knockoff-artists, we're ALL going to be limited to the "ebay" header with a 2.5" collector in about 2 years!

This goes for other high-price, low-production parts that are still on the market as well, such as the G-Square grille.


If a company is making a replica of an item that is no longer produced, that's fine. They're not harming the aftermarket.


If a company is copying some generic, mass-produced item that isn't specific to our car, I'll allow such a discussion. DC Sports doesn't really care that someone is copying their header design. It's not going to put them out of business, or make them stop producing their headers. With the smaller, higher-quality companies... it WILL hurt them.

I will not support such actions. I will not allow this forum to support them. If you want to buy that stuff, do so on your own conscience... but I don't want to hear about it on these pages.


Thanks.

[deevergote]

Feel free to ask questions. If I'm not clear, I will gladly clarify.
The rule itself is not up for discussion, however. I don't care to argue about it. In fact, I will end any arguments swiftly by banning. Possibly permanently.

I am very serious about this.

[MikeW]

Then what about the Blizzgrille and JackGrille?

[RagingAsian]

x2

[deevergote]

Then what about the Blizzgrille and JackGrille?

I gave permission for those, and they're not marketed as knockoffs... I'm still debating on whether or not to revoke my permission.

The ONLY reason they aren't falling instantly under this new rule is because I DID offer my permission when approached. I will either consider them to be grandfathered in, or I will be forced to revoke my permission, pending a product redesign that makes them different from any other grille on the market.

[Ralphie]

I believe those are in the same boat.

Not to say that anyone can't sit back and make their own mold of a chargespeed grill, but don't go around selling them i guess is the main point, at least not on this forum.

But on second though, the griles are not made anymore so i guess it's fine?

edit-

nm he beat me too it!! LOL

So the custom grills are ok. I don't see the harm with the grills because they are so rare as it is, that to have a few more floating around that are replica's are not a big deal.

When it comes to parts like Bisi's and Hytech etc then it becomes a problem because those are upstarts and any knockoffs could easily ruin their outcome so that is common sense.

I guess the grills are a play by ear kind of thing huh?

[TypeG]

i think if the company doesn't exist anymore or just doesn't make the product anymore, then it should be ok. the Blizzgrille and JackGrille are examples of this from Gsquare. later.

[RagingAsian]

i think if the company doesn't exist anymore or just doesn't make the product anymore, then it should be ok. the Blizzgrille and JackGrille are examples of this from Gsquare. later.

Well Said.

[The G-Man]

I don't agree with this rule in the fact that it is blatant censorship.
I do agree with this in the fact that these parts do kill development of more parts.
I do realize that this forum is not a democracy.

Just wanted to put my $0.02 out there.

[deevergote]

i think if the company doesn't exist anymore or just doesn't make the product anymore, then it should be ok. the Blizzgrille and JackGrille are examples of this from Gsquare. later.

That is also true. If the part is not being made or sold new anymore, than producing a replica is not harmful to that company in any way. I was actually just looking up the GSquare grille to see if it was still being made.

I know Chargespeed is, which is why there was an issue with Jarhead making copies of it. I asked him to modify his design, change the name, and not mention Chargespeed in his advertising... and he complied. That satisfied Chargespeed's US distributor. That incident actually nearly got ME sued, and this forum shut down!

I don't agree with this rule in the fact that it is blatant censorship.
I do agree with this in the fact that these parts do kill development of more parts.
I do realize that this forum is not a democracy.

Just wanted to put my $0.02 out there.

Yes, it is blatant censoring. However, it's not unnecessary. Our aftermarket is limited. In fact, the quality aftermarket has been GROWING, thanks largely to the efforts of members of this forum! To support such knockoff companies is going to be detrimental... leaving future CB7 enthusiasts with nothing but generic garbage to use. That, or they'll be left with the daunting task of locating a used quality part... or worse yet, trying to design their own (or paying an obscene amount of money to have it designed for them!)

This is not censoring based on my personal opinion. This is not censoring based on loyalty to any particular company. This is censoring based on my loyalty to the CB7tuner community. People that are serious about the CB, and those that will become serious in the future, deserve to have their quality aftermarket preserved!



Now, keep in mind, I'm not censoring things like Megan Racing, OBX, Rota, 3A Racing, etc... I'm ONLY concerned with the companies that essentially make one-off products. Bisimoto, ESP, Hytech, SMSP... and of course, other companies such as Chargespeed... well... they'll sue us if we support their knockoffs!

Plus, copyright infringement is illegal, and dishonorable. It saddens me to think that the respected members of this site would even consider supporting people like that. Might as well take a trip down to the ghetto and pick up some parts that you know were stolen from your buddy's car last week! Essentially, it's no different. It's stealing someone else's hard work and calling it your own... only to make things worse, those that do it are selling their inferior versions for far less... leaving no room in the market for the original quality piece.

Unless, of course, you'd like Bisimoto to start making $250 headers using flimsy steel, shitty welds, and the exact same piping (aside from variations in the materials and hasty cutting...) for each customer.
Granted, Bisi has too much pride in his work to stoop to that level. However, if you support anyone knocking off his designs, you can be DAMN sure that he'll stop worrying about us, and focus on the serious Civic and Integra tuners that want to use the F22A.

[The G-Man]

I was not implying that I support such activities, just a mere dislike of governmental control surfacing.

[Ralphie]

I was not implying that I support such activities, just a mere dislike of governmental control surfacing.

It's not really a form of control; rather a filter.

Deev and everyone here has no control over what anyone else does.

Anyone on here could start fabing their own knockoff bisi items.

But you won't be allowed to do it on here and advertise.

So it's not really control, as it is a filter to keep garbage out and promote quality items.

[deevergote]

I was not implying that I support such activities, just a mere dislike of governmental control surfacing.

Yeah, that started as a reply to you, and ended as a general statement to all.

I'm not a fan of it either... but after seeing one such discussion, closing it, and then berated for doing so, I figured I should set it in stone.

Plus, the final person to berate me before I made the rule pretty much said "If it's listed in the rules, then that's fine... otherwise it's unfair for you to use your power to enforce your opinion".



To be completely honest, I am an EXTREMELY cheap motherfucker. I won't say that the idea of a $400 version of a $1200 header doesn't intrigue me. It most certainly does! However, as I stated above, what these companies are doing is no better than the thieves in the ghetto... selling stolen $500 head units for $100.

I wouldn't buy a part that was stolen from some other hard-working tuner's car... and I won't buy a part that is made according to a design stolen from another manufacturer.

[deevergote]

It's not really a form of control; rather a filter.

Deev and everyone here has no control over what anyone else does.

Anyone on here could start fabing their own knockoff bisi items.

But you won't be allowed to do it on here and advertise.

So it's not really control, as it is a filter to keep garbage out and promote quality items.

Right. I'm not telling anyone what to buy... merely limiting the discussion of it on this forum. You can buy whatever the hell you want... I just don't want this community as a whole to have any firsthand contribution to the downfall of the aftermarket that we've worked so hard to build and maintain.

[excalibur02]

G-Square Corp stopped producing the CB9 parts in 2003.

Chargespeed is still producing there products for the CB.