Honda V8

[visualpoet]

honda can go into nascar without a production V8

toyota enters the camry for nascar.

it is not uncommon to enter a car into nascar without a v8 stock public option

i think it is pretty lame

Ah, but Toyota does offer a street V8 in the Tundra. Nascar rules (last time I checked) required a publically available V8. It doesn't have to be available in the car they decide to use, just available for the public to buy. They also have displacement requirements (350-358 c.i.d.), hp limited by restricter plates, etc. I've heard they're finally going to allow fuel injection this year, but haven't bothered to confirm it.

I'm a big fan of going back to the original days, buy it, build it, race it. To hell with tube frames and fake bodies and nearly identical engines, that's what IROC is for.

[deevergote]

Yeah, if it's not a "real car", I lose interest.

[buckysaccord93]

Ah, but Toyota does offer a street V8 in the Tundra. Nascar rules (last time I checked) required a publically available V8. It doesn't have to be available in the car they decide to use, just available for the public to buy. They also have displacement requirements (350-358 c.i.d.), hp limited by restricter plates, etc. I've heard they're finally going to allow fuel injection this year, but haven't bothered to confirm it.

I'm a big fan of going back to the original days, buy it, build it, race it. To hell with tube frames and fake bodies and nearly identical engines, that's what IROC is for.

I have also heard about the fuel injection taking place. i heard it on 105.1 country station when they were doing a interview. They said it was in discussion
that theres no yes or no to it yet.

every time i hear restricter plate i think of the movie old school when will pharrell told his wife to keep it down that he just took the restrictor plate off the red dragon. (it's funny if you've seen the movie)

I think the reason honda hasnt made a v8 is because there going to come out with the most fuel economic/high horsepower v6 ever in production. But there just not finished yet LOL

[deevergote]

Nissan keeps making more powerful V6s. We're going to have 400hp V6s soon enough!

[gloryaccordy]

Nissan's VQ needs to kick the bucket. It was an incredible engine in 1995, a good engine in 2000 and a so-so engine saved by having more displacement than the competition in 2003. Now, compared to the J series it's down right thrashy & unrefined.

Honda needs to refresh its motors too. I think Honda's the only company left who hasn't at least tried direct injection.

[GHOST 2.2]

Nissan keeps making more powerful V6s. We're going to have 400hp V6s soon enough!

possible, honda just needs to find the right reason and platform to do it on.

[deevergote]

The only thing is that we're quickly reaching the limits of current technology for mass-produced horsepower. We CAN make insanely powerful engines, but in order for them to be reliable, they have to be made very carefully, with high quality materials. Moreso than today's stuff. That will drive up the cost, which will price the cars right out of the market.

That's why we have things like the GT-R and the LF-A... and the NSX for its time was very expensive (I believe it was over $70,000 when it first came out, and stayed there. $70,000 in 1992 is comparable to about $105,000 today, considering inflation.

[owequitit]

It cost Honda their rightful place in the luxury car market. Acura, not Lexus, should be battling head to head with the likes of Mercedes and BMW

Even though V8's account for 95+% of all sales?

I can sort of understand the perception arguement, but frankly, for most consumers it just doesn't apply.

Besides, Honda beat and conquered by NOT doing what everyone else was doing. There seems to be this illogical sentiment that there is only 1 way to skin a cat, and that without that way, Acura can't succeed. The fact of the matter is though that their most successful years were when they did more with less, not less with more.

They have been more crippled by platform choice IMO, than they have engine or powertrain choice. I would rather see a balanced, well proportioned chassis with a high winding V6 (think 2nd gen Legend), than a V8 just because. Besides, with CAFE coming the V8's are going to become even more rare.

It's also against Honda's philosophies...but then again, so is the Crosstour, ZDX, etc.

These are products of the same mentallity that demanded a V8. Acura was in the process of matching the other makers when the economy tanked.

Strategically, they need a global presence which would allow them to ammortize costs over a much larger market, which they were also intending to do when the economy tanked. They may still push that way, but the product will likely be different with the new focus on MPG and emmissions.

That's absolutely true. IMO, Acura makes a higher quality vehicle. Especially now. The FWD drivetrain (AWD now, but still FWD-based) and V6-only power sets them a notch below Lexus and Infiniti in perceived luxury.

The funny thing, when Toyota and Nissan were making Supras and Skyline GT-Rs, Honda was making the NSX.

The NSX was never intended to be "better" though. They simply took the most efficient and effective path to creating a well balanced supercar. In fact, the misconceptions about the NSX and what it was designed to achieve are actually quite amusing. It was never what it "could have been." They eschewed boosted V6's and a 5.0 V8, because it was determined that they could make do with a 3.0 V6 based on the Acura Legend unit. Even VTEC was a marketing choice, as they had the SOHC non-VTEC Legend engine making in excess of 250HP with full production compliance, including emmissions and warranty.

In the end, they decided that a 3.0 VTEC V6 would provide the best balance of weight, size and driving experience.

Oddly, the people who claim themselves to be Honda fans, demand exactly opposite of what made them successful in the first place. They were always the company of smaller and lighter = faster. Yet, when they don't do what everyone else does, they get criticized for not being as "good," and when they DO do what everyone else does (bloated Accord, AWD, more power, more weight, more luxury), they get flamed for not being true to their roots. Considering their "roots" are smaller and lighter = faster, there is only one way they can be true to their roots, so which is it? Do we want honking 4,000+lb V8 powered land yachts, just like everyone else, or would we prefer a 3,500lb, slightly more compact and balanced V6 powered one?

Ah, but Toyota does offer a street V8 in the Tundra. Nascar rules (last time I checked) required a publically available V8. It doesn't have to be available in the car they decide to use, just available for the public to buy. They also have displacement requirements (350-358 c.i.d.), hp limited by restricter plates, etc. I've heard they're finally going to allow fuel injection this year, but haven't bothered to confirm it.

I'm a big fan of going back to the original days, buy it, build it, race it. To hell with tube frames and fake bodies and nearly identical engines, that's what IROC is for.

There is nothing publicly available about Toyota's NASCAR V8. Each engine is essentially a clone of each other, and last time I checked, Toyota's V8 was neither 350-358 C.I.D., nor was it carbureted or OHV.

I have also heard about the fuel injection taking place. i heard it on 105.1 country station when they were doing a interview. They said it was in discussion
that theres no yes or no to it yet.

every time i hear restricter plate i think of the movie old school when will pharrell told his wife to keep it down that he just took the restrictor plate off the red dragon. (it's funny if you've seen the movie)

I think the reason honda hasnt made a v8 is because there going to come out with the most fuel economic/high horsepower v6 ever in production. But there just not finished yet LOL

Fuel injection is expected to go into effect, IIRC in the next season. Of course there is a big stink about it too.

Nissan's VQ needs to kick the bucket. It was an incredible engine in 1995, a good engine in 2000 and a so-so engine saved by having more displacement than the competition in 2003. Now, compared to the J series it's down right thrashy & unrefined.

Honda needs to refresh its motors too. I think Honda's the only company left who hasn't at least tried direct injection.

Honda was actually one of the first companies to implement GDI with a version of the K20 in the Stream. Unfortunately, as is the case with everyone else, it has extremely limited usefulness in NA applications, and most likely had some major downsides as everyone else is discovering (they have inherent major valve deposit issues, increase fuel pump and other commponent failure due to the high pressures.

Coincidentally, since Honda understands there is no such thing as a "magic pill" they were able to get more power, and better MPG from a version of the R series in the next generation stream, even though it was as simpler, lighter and cheaper engine. They achieved that by optimizing variables, even though it doesn't look as marketable on paper.

They have also stated that they are currently working on perfecting GDI, which I assume means both on a reliability/durability basis, and a cost one.

Also, the J series replacement is well in the works, and I would guess that either a major update of the K series, or a new engine completely is also in the works. The L-series is probably also near the end of its life. The main issue Honda has right now is that its 3 largest engine series (r might be larger than L, but it is hard to say, either way 3 of the largest engine families) were all released in short order of each other. The J series debuted in 1997, the K series in 2001, and the L series in 2001, so even though everything is still on a planned obsolescence schedule, they are all timed close to each other, which will tend to make it seem like there is no innovation for awhile.

That said, the J series has a lot of areas where added tech will increase power, MPG and emmissions compliance, but will also add size, weight and complexity. The K series still has a lot of areas they can tap for more power, including VTC on the exhaust side, dual stage IM's, and VTEC on both sides (the TSX removed VTEC from the exhaust side, but still pretty much maintained power).

The only thing is that we're quickly reaching the limits of current technology for mass-produced horsepower. We CAN make insanely powerful engines, but in order for them to be reliable, they have to be made very carefully, with high quality materials. Moreso than today's stuff. That will drive up the cost, which will price the cars right out of the market.

That's why we have things like the GT-R and the LF-A... and the NSX for its time was very expensive (I believe it was over $70,000 when it first came out, and stayed there. $70,000 in 1992 is comparable to about $105,000 today, considering inflation.

The S2K proved that reliability and cost, with high output were not mutally exclusive. What we really have are the greenies cracking down on it, because they are convinced that something you can plug into a wall, that burns more carbon out of sight is a better option.

[visualpoet]

...
There is nothing publicly available about Toyota's NASCAR V8. Each engine is essentially a clone of each other, and last time I checked, Toyota's V8 was neither 350-358 C.I.D., nor was it carbureted or OHV...

Pretty much none of the NASCAR engines are available in a street car, but the company does have to have a V8 available to the public in one of their vehicles to be eligible. They aren't required to use that motor, they just have to manufacture a publicly available V8 AFAIK. Things might have changed, but the Tundra V8 is the reason Toyota was able to get into NASCAR. They just need to revamp NASCAR and turn what it is now into an IROC series. Identical cars, different drivers.
I miss watching a race where you rooted for you car and driver because you could go to the dealer and buy the same car they were racing. It's a damn shame when you can't tell the cars without the stickers.

[gloryaccordy]

I am hoping manufacturers begin to move the other way to get better performance (lower weight). Crash regs are a motherfucker but ultimately if the new Accord can be as big as a Crown Vic and weigh 3300 lbs, there's no reason for there to be no performance cars under 3000 lbs (which is what it seems like it is... even 911s and Ferraris are well above 3000 lbs).

[deevergote]

Lotus knows what's up... thogh they need to stop using Yamayota engines.

[owequitit]

I am hoping manufacturers begin to move the other way to get better performance (lower weight). Crash regs are a motherfucker but ultimately if the new Accord can be as big as a Crown Vic and weigh 3300 lbs, there's no reason for there to be no performance cars under 3000 lbs (which is what it seems like it is... even 911s and Ferraris are well above 3000 lbs).

The Accord is not the size of a crown Vic. EPA "large" is a minimum volume threshold, and the ONLY Accord that qualifies is the LX sedan without a moonroof.

The Crown Vic is 18" longer, 5" wider, and 2" shorter than the 2009 Accord. That is essentially MORE than the difference between a CB7 and the current Accord.

The 2009 Accord is 9" longer, 5" wider, 6" taller than the CB7. Other than the height, the difference from 4th gen Accord to 9th gen is WAAAY smaller than the difference to Crown Vic.

Also, the beauty of CF is that you can meet crash AND weight targets at the same time. But we can't produce it in quantity yet, at least not in the quantity required at the price required.

We also have other major things we can do like aluminum, plastic, higher HSS content, and God Forbid, reduced size.