Honda Design Flaw: Bolt Clearance

[Law Grandeur]

i actually chuckled when i saw that picture. thats a damn shame

[bcjammerx]

I've found two things...I'm not 100% sure it wasn't a result of the order in which I was doing things though.

1. When I did my t-belt...that 14mm bolt you tighten at the end, I could NOT get to it, even with removing the mounts and nearly having the engine falling out of the bay. It's been so long...I know I had all my tools and I don't think I could even get a wrench to work, I had regular 14mm sockets too not just long ones...there just wasn't enough room to get the socket and wrench on or anything. I can't believe it to this day but I couldn't get anything to work. I had to resort to a very unorthodox method to get to it. I tried backtracking and everything, couldn't get to it...

There is another bolt you have to drop the engine to get to clear when doing a t-belt...sucks when you forget and go to put it back in the wrong order have to undo everything...like I did.

2. When I was going to take the rear lower trailing arm off for a disc brake swap from an ex 93 accord, on the bolt that connects the front of the arm to the car, you can't take the bolt out, it hits the frame. I didn't inspect it enough as it was pouring rain by that time, so maybe the mounts could come off...I don't know....but you can't get the trialing arm off from the car by just loosening the bolt as it hits the frame and the bolt can't come out.

[skilzz]

im guessing its made that way as a fail safe incase the bolt comes lose

jk. theres a million of these little thing you run into when working on a teg

[loud92CB7]

i never had an issue with that bolt on any of the 5spds or the autos i have worked on....

[Tnwagn]

That bolt can be removed if you remove the trans mount and remove the front engine mount bolt, then lift the engine up an inch or so.
Its very uncommon to have to go to "extremes" to get at the more basic parts when working on Honda's luckily.

That's what I figured. Oh well

i never had an issue with that bolt on any of the 5spds or the autos i have worked on....

Interesting, I wonder what the difference is for my setup to prevent me from having clearance? I guess it's possible that my motor mounts have let the engine sag so much it's lowered to where the trans case is in the way.

[MikeW]

The most obvious for the CB is the inability to access the fuel pump without removing the tank.

I thought you could access it by getting under the backseat or in the trunk...

[DJ metadelic]

another design flaw i noticed:

those stupid plastic sideskirts on most hondas. my buddy's DA doesn't have them, never did. but on most, the moisture retains inside, only to rot out that much quicker. i have half a mind to remove mine...

in terms of the bolt design issue, what's the alternative? i mean, they're that long for a reason. it's clearance between the lower arm and the trans case. what do you plan to do? or have already done

[WilliamW]

Three words guys: Hub over rotor.

Those things are a pain, huge mistake there.

Anyway, if your engine mounts are going bad, maybe it's time for some ESP mouths

[owequitit]

1) I am pretty sure I have removed that bolt without moving the powertrain. It just took some finagling and probably a BFH to get it at an angle where it would come out.

If that didn't work, then I must have used the jack to jack up the tranny side a bit to make more clearance (you can actually get about an inch out of the mount using the jack). That may give you enough room to wiggle it out.

2) It wasn't a lack of designing on the part of Honda, there is just no way to make everything 100% perfect and still meet the other design criteria. McPherson struts probably would have solved the problem, but then you wouldn't have DW suspension.

The reason it is an issue is because the subframe is assembled with the suspension, then it is bolted to the engine, and then it is lifted into the car as 1 assembly, so it was never an issue for Honda. That is also something that is not likely to be replaced by most people.

3) The clutch pedal cotter is a pain, so I just made sure it was pointed down, an then held the pin on the other side, while bending it with needle nose. Once you get it started it isn't too bad. I think you can also flip the pin around so that the cotter is actually in between the brake and clutch instead of clutch and fusebox.

[Tnwagn]

Looking back, I should have tried the jack on the tranny case to see how much room I could get. Based on how much left of the bolt I had to get out that 1" would have made a world of difference.

I realize it's nothing that Honda ever needed to worry about when assembling the vehicle at the factory but it is something that they would take into consideration. What happens when a car under warranty comes in with a damaged suspension and they needed to remove the LCA? If there wasn't a way to remove it without partially lifting the engine the dealership tech guy would have to do way more work than it would take for them to design the parts properly. Hell, if the bolt went in from the other side then there would be no issues.

I mean, I know I'm bitching but honestly this is the only real problem I've ever encountered working on my car. Other cars I've worked on even 1-2 times have been absolute nightmares in terms of poor design and manufacturing.

[Geist Zero]

1) I am pretty sure I have removed that bolt without moving the powertrain. It just took some finagling and probably a BFH to get it at an angle where it would come out.

If that didn't work, then I must have used the jack to jack up the tranny side a bit to make more clearance (you can actually get about an inch out of the mount using the jack). That may give you enough room to wiggle it out.

I might have had to play with it a bit and use a little force, but I'm sure it's been removed when I was replacing my bushings. Try pulling it out at an angle if you haven't already. Once you clear the weld nut on the other side the control arm should be able to move a bit to help angle the bolt out.

If I remember I'll look at my CB tomorrow. Right now it's past 1 am and storming out.

I looked and yeah. I had it out. You just have to play with it a bit. Assuming you haven't already removed it with some other method.

I don't know why you're complaining. We're working on small imports. Did you honestly expect to easily reach and remove parts? Although annoying they are expected to be tight.

That bolt is not really a design flaw, but I will agree that the seam sealer and side skirts are.

[Law Grandeur]

I thought you could access it by getting under the backseat or in the trunk...

i know when it comes to cd5s its a 50/50. my friend's cd5 you can lift the back seat but on my bros cd5 you have to remove the tank. maybe in the later years they fixed the flaw

[Shag Wagon]

Yea I have gotten mad at my wagon a few times but not as much as my old one. That bolt that goes into the bottom part of the front motor mount gets in the wagon of the cooler lines on an autotragic. I hate that fucking bolt so bad because that mount ALWAYS goes bad within just a few months.

[crazymikey]

Sounds like the design flaw is not the bolt, but the fact that the car is equipped with an automatic transmission. That tranny in itself is a design flaw.

[Tnwagn]

Haha, best answer so far