Crazy idea

[Tippey764]

Lately i have been thinking about how to conserve fuel and get better gas mileage.

I was looking into alternative fuels like CNG ( compressed natural gas ) and propane. I never realised you can convert any engine to CNG. I started to look more at 98-00 civic GX's

The engine they run is a d16B5 which apperently is very similar to the d16y5 ( used in civic HX )

So i was thinking. In theory; Could you swap in a b16 or b18C into that civic and have it run on CNG? The hardware and tanks are already there for CNG so all you would need is the engine hooked up.

Is this idea feasibly possible or just plain crazy? CNG is $2 near by me vs $3 for regular gas.

Also if you have natural gas at your house you can set up an at home car refueling station. Which is just convinent and sweet.

Also CNG vehicles have lower emmisions.

Lovely picture of civic GX





( Says NGV where the type R says Type R )

Notice the different rear seats? I cant get a picture of the trunk but the CNG tankes are in the trunk. So the seats dont fold down. As to why the deleted the center seat im not sure but i like it gone anyways

[Shag Wagon]

That sounds like that would be awesome. How would you measure fuel economy?

[Tippey764]

How would you measure fuel economy?

Good question

I think you still buy CNG in gallons though.

[ATS666]

Propane/CNG have less potential energy then gasoline, which means less power and less mpg then gas. Trade off is that it's cheaper.

Emissions are cleaner that is true.

Dual fuel would be nice!

[Tippey764]

Propane/CNG have less potential energy then gasoline, which means less power and less mpg then gas. Trade off is that it's cheaper.

Emissions are cleaner that is true.

Dual fuel would be nice!

Really? I saw people who had up to 35mpg with a 98-00 civic GX

A normal civic only gets 37 and its really all depending on the motor and how its running. What octane would CNG be comparable too ( or is that a stupid question? )

[deevergote]

Well, less potential energy likely means you'll make less power... so if they're moving at a snail's pace, they can probably get very good mileage.

I don't know if natural gas is rated in a way that can be compared to gasoline's octane. Octane pretty much determines the fuel's resistance to detonation... so you could probably gauge it that way. Speaking of which... how much maintenance would a CNG car require? Would you be burning plugs, sensors, or the cat faster? Would worn components be a significant risk for detonation? Would you be able to find places to fill up frequently enough to make driving the car anywhere but your usual area worthwhile? How many mechanics woudl know how to work on the system if something breaks beyond your abilities?

[Nurega]

Since the last two times I've visited India, the CNG fad has grown exponentially. Literally 40% of the cars there are now converted to either CNG or LPG because of scary $5/gallon gasoline prices. Any given Suzuki and most Hyundias can be converted for less than 1/10 of the purchase price of the car. It's a no-brainer there, seeing as horsepower really doesn't matter.

Power does go down (it's negligible), but tailpipe emissions are reduced heavily. Best of all, you have the feel-good sensation of not sending more money to the Middle East.

However, simply dropping in a Civic HX engine may not do the trick. In the US, there is a ridiculous amount of EPA restrictions with LPG and CNG conversion kits due to the risk of evaporative emissions, etc. Try googling this though; I'm sure there are others who have found ways around the laws.

When I was 16, I drove my uncle's Suzuki Alto (in India). The car had an electronic switch that could switch from gasoline to LPG (not on-the-fly, but with the engine off). The professionally installed kit basically installs a gas cylinder in the lower half of the cargo hold (behind the rear seats), and runs the fuel lines into an auxilary fuel rail. Power loss wasn't noticable...but then again, I couldn't feel the original 60 horsepower anyway.

[Tippey764]

Well, less potential energy likely means you'll make less power... so if they're moving at a snail's pace, they can probably get very good mileage.

how much maintenance would a CNG car require? Replacing the fuel tank is all i can think of thats extra maintence over a gas car.

Would you be burning plugs, sensors, or the cat faster? Why would it do that?

Would worn components be a significant risk for detonation? What kind of worn componets? Your required to replace the fuel tankes every so offten. They cost like $2000-$4000 which sucks

Would you be able to find places to fill up frequently enough to make driving the car anywhere but your usual area worthwhile? Yeah i thought about that too. But keeping another car running gas isnt a problem so i didnt put too much thought into it.

How many mechanics woudl know how to work on the system if something breaks beyond your abilities? Hmm good question. The only real difference in the car is the fuel system. The only maintence thing i can think of is replacing the fuel tank every certine period of time. I cant imagine it being that hard. Im sure with an oem manual/knowlege everything is doable ( unless special tools are required )

I still think it would be a cool project. Definetly eco freindly and out of the norm.

[deevergote]

Definitely. I don't mean to discourage your train of thought... merely suggest potential obstacles that should be taken into consideration.


Seeing as we don't know how it compares to gasoline as far as detonation control goes, ECU tuning MAY have to be very precise. And then when the ignition components begin to wear, things may get unstable.
This is completely ignorant specualtion on my part, as you've researched it more than I have... but it'd be a concern I'd want to look into.

[Tippey764]

Definitely. I don't mean to discourage your train of thought... merely suggest potential obstacles that should be taken into consideration.


Seeing as we don't know how it compares to gasoline as far as detonation control goes, ECU tuning MAY have to be very precise. And then when the ignition components begin to wear, things may get unstable.
This is completely ignorant specualtion on my part, as you've researched it more than I have... but it'd be a concern I'd want to look into.

Im going to barrow my brothers alldatapro log in and research the repair on specific CNG componets some more

And good point. If i did put a different engine in this thing i would really want it tuned. Who the hell knows how to tune a CNG engine? Or would it be similar to tuning a gas engine?

All possible problems.

I really just need the car first. Maybe if i get a job this summer...

[DJ metadelic]

Meh.

It'd be neat, but why not just save and get a used hybrid?

[wed3k]

just get an insight.

[Shag Wagon]

It would be cool to see a natural gas car on some serious boost!

[Tippey764]

However, simply dropping in a Civic HX engine may not do the trick. In the US, there is a ridiculous amount of EPA restrictions with LPG and CNG conversion kits due to the risk of evaporative emissions, etc. Try googling this though; I'm sure there are others who have found ways around the laws.

the civic gx is already a cng vehicle. I was just pointing out that it's cng engine is similar to the gas engine in the civic hx

Meh.

It'd be neat, but why not just save and get a used hybrid?

just get an insight.

they still run on gas. And if you swap the motor in them then they're pretty just a normal gasoline car. The whole point behind my idea would be to get better gas mileage and be using a cheaper fuel source but still have a fairly quick car.

[i<3mycb7coupe]

My Dad used to install them
supposedly very easy on carburated engines, not so on injected,
but now-a-days theres kits, which make it a direct bolt on
+one drawback that i remember was that it made a lil less power idk real figures but i think it was around 20&#37;