Shit has hit the fan for me as well. <ANGRY>

[owequitit]

I'm not talking about unexpected expenses. I'm talking about your regular average incoming/outgoing. If you prepare when times are good, you'll be better prepared for the bad times and unexpected expenses.
You are correct, it is easier said than done, but the rewards of self control are great.

Also, to 92vig, I apologize if that came off as an attack. I didn't intend for it to be an attack, merely just suggestions and an example (hopefully good) in myself. I haven't always been good with my money, so I've had to learn the hard way as well.

The problem is that you can only prepare for so much. It isn't like you can just infinitely save for bad times.

Look at how much people are losing in this economy that were making the right choices. Then take that and TRIPLE the timeframe, and you have some industries that people completely neglect.

You can preach the save, save, save mantra all you want, but if circumstances that cause your basic expenses to outstrip your income persist for long enough, ANYONE will fold, no matter what precautions they took.

It is one thing to give advice, and I am not saying that the OP couldn't have done things differently, but your tone is such that it makes it seem that basically anybody struggling fucked up, and in the current state of affairs, that is not necessarily true. Most people in these upside down positions did make the right choices, but because of reality, have watched their retirements, their home values, and their disposable income vanish all at once. At some point, regardless of the level of planning, saving and decision making, the water is going to sink the ship.

[deevergote]

Even if people DID fuck up... that doesn't make their situation any less real.


In this case, 92vig screwed his credit up once, and rebuilt it to a score that I believe is actually better than mine (mine was 630 about 4 years ago... and I'd never missed a payment on anything.) He learned. He recovered. He obviously did something right.

But now, his jobcut overtime. His wife's job cut regular hours. He's looking at a divorce. He took on a car payment that WAS manageable, but isn't anymore. The only thing that may have been an unwise decision was buying that DSM... but that's hardly a life-shattering decision in its own right.

[wed3k]

I hate that this is going on for ya man, but I also hate to say a lot of it could have been prevented. I WANT full coilovers, I WANT this or that, but i dont NEED it. Ive been making a point to save an X amount of money each paycheck, and I do not touch it. Of course you don't know when sh!ts gonna hit hte fan, but you need to make sure you are somewhat prepared for when it does, because trust me, as you already know, its not a matter of if, but when. My advice is to save save save save save. You'll get through it.

my man.

[JohnD1079]

I think i read somewhere that cars are the biggest drain on someone's pocket. And that applies to everyone, not just car people.

[foamypirate]

The problem is that you can only prepare for so much. It isn't like you can just infinitely save for bad times.

Look at how much people are losing in this economy that were making the right choices. Then take that and TRIPLE the timeframe, and you have some industries that people completely neglect.


These people are far better off at this point than those that did not make the correct decisions. They at least had a chance of weathering the storm. For instance, my father-in-law, an avid saver and penny pincher, has been without a job for nearly a year, and yet they are still living comfortably on their savings. If they hadn't prepared, where would they be? In a foreclosed home and on welfare.

You can preach the save, save, save mantra all you want, but if circumstances that cause your basic expenses to outstrip your income persist for long enough, ANYONE will fold, no matter what precautions they took.

Well, that's simple math. Of course if your outgoing is greater than your incoming for a long period, you will fold. But it's that buffer zone from the saving to helps you weather the storm, and potentially get back on your feet before you even hit the ground.

It is one thing to give advice, and I am not saying that the OP couldn't have done things differently, but your tone is such that it makes it seem that basically anybody struggling fucked up, and in the current state of affairs, that is not necessarily true. Most people in these upside down positions did make the right choices, but because of reality, have watched their retirements, their home values, and their disposable income vanish all at once. At some point, regardless of the level of planning, saving and decision making, the water is going to sink the ship.

Did you read the section of my previous post where I apologized about it coming across as an attack? I understand things happen beyond our control sometimes, things that can't be accounted for. Even the best laid plans can be foiled. But is it not better to HAVE a plan, than to live day to day hoping things will stay great?

.

[92vig]

Well the unimaginable happened last night. My wife asked her parents for money and shockingly they are giving us a check tonight for $1500. Of course, I will pay them back somehow when time allots, but isn't that strange? Maybe it's just so their daughter doesn't struggle too much...who knows.

At least we can pay the rent now and get caught up on things.

[Masamune]

That's great news!

Have you sat down with your wife and talked about how to cut back expenses yet?

[92vig]

I was figuring a few things out last night, but number crunching made me irritated so I stopped. I am at work now, but off over the weekend so I will be able to really sit down and go over everything. Clear head works best.

[92vig]

So I am going to get out of my lease...whether they want to let me out or not. Shit is going so far downhill it's not even funny.

I lost 10 hours (I work 4 days a week at 10 hours each now) because the day my DSM decided to take a shit on me. Couldn't do to work that day. So my check this Friday will be $600 something. My wife's is going to be $500 something. I have rent due for $1000 and I'll be DAMNED if I turn around and spend another $1000 in May when I really could use all the money I can get.

Insurance for the Lancer, car payment, etc. etc.....it's still all due. So I figure I would say fuck the lease, that gets me out of the apartment/energy/cable/renters insurance. My parents said I can go back and stay with them for a while...that isn't what I want, but it will work. I sleep and work all day so I won't be there for long.

As for my wife...we are still together right now, we need each other to pay shit off at the moment and she is showing initiative to try and work things out, so I am going to set divorce on the back burner for now and see where things go. My guard isn't let down though!

So yea....lots of horse shit for me

[owequitit]

.

You were too worried about your response to actually read mine. I read every word. I disagree.

Take aviation for instance. It has been in a state of 20% YOY decline for the last decade. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure out that the average person in aviation is making roughly 20-30% as much as they were, with 2x as much work in no less. There are other industries that mirror this.

You preach preach, and I am not saying that saving is bad, but the cold hard reality is that if your excess income with which to save does not save at a rate faster than the next downturn, you are unlikely to be able to weather the downturn. Period. Then, when things turn up again, you don't just have to save a new amount, you have to dig yourself out of a hole, and then begin to save, hopefully accruing enough to save you from the next impending downturn. Even with just basic living expenses, 2 young people who make an average income can barely save enough to get ahead. If you look at historically, MOST people don't have any appreciable savings until they are middle age, because that is when their income level generally allows them to either see high growth on what they have saved (compounded against time) or they have enough excess income to store it away.

Take what is a relatively young couple, and there is usually a small margin between success and failure in terms of savings. Couple in divorce, job cuts, hour cuts, revenue cuts, decreasing values, increased legislation, and it isn't hard to foresee those who are living on the cusp of failure, not being able to hold on. Hence the economic mess we are in. Hence the widespread defaults, foreclosures, job losses etc.

You are taking a condescending view of people who may not have been as fortunate as you have been. Some of it may have been intelligence, and some of it may have been luck. Herb Kelleher is often quoted as saying "I would rather be lucky, than good." Because no matter how good you are, if the financial environment, the economy, or any other number of life factors line up against you, it doesn't matter how smart you are, you are still going to fail.

Now, take me for instance, I make less now than I did 5 years ago. And it has steadily decreased year over year, due to the problems of the industry. Couple that with the fact that I work twice as hard to make less money, and I would say it is probably beyond my control...Am I stupid too? Did I make bad choices?

[Masamune]

So I am going to get out of my lease...whether they want to let me out or not.

What do you mean? Don't just leave one day and expect to get away. Have you talked with the lease holder and explained all the shit that's happening? I mean you could easily ask for a lower rent in exchange for some service or another (general repairs perhaps, or maybe something else in exchange for money?). The worst they could do to you for asking is say no, so what have you got to lose?

And moving back with your parents may suck, but it's what has to be done. That is a key way to reduce expenses and get on top of your debt. Kudos for moving in the right direction with this!

[foamypirate]

You were too worried about your response to actually read mine. I read every word. I disagree.

Take aviation for instance. It has been in a state of 20&#37; YOY decline for the last decade. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure out that the average person in aviation is making roughly 20-30% as much as they were, with 2x as much work in no less. There are other industries that mirror this.

You preach preach, and I am not saying that saving is bad, but the cold hard reality is that if your excess income with which to save does not save at a rate faster than the next downturn, you are unlikely to be able to weather the downturn. Period. Then, when things turn up again, you don't just have to save a new amount, you have to dig yourself out of a hole, and then begin to save, hopefully accruing enough to save you from the next impending downturn. Even with just basic living expenses, 2 young people who make an average income can barely save enough to get ahead. If you look at historically, MOST people don't have any appreciable savings until they are middle age, because that is when their income level generally allows them to either see high growth on what they have saved (compounded against time) or they have enough excess income to store it away.

Take what is a relatively young couple, and there is usually a small margin between success and failure in terms of savings. Couple in divorce, job cuts, hour cuts, revenue cuts, decreasing values, increased legislation, and it isn't hard to foresee those who are living on the cusp of failure, not being able to hold on. Hence the economic mess we are in. Hence the widespread defaults, foreclosures, job losses etc.

You are taking a condescending view of people who may not have been as fortunate as you have been. Some of it may have been intelligence, and some of it may have been luck. Herb Kelleher is often quoted as saying "I would rather be lucky, than good." Because no matter how good you are, if the financial environment, the economy, or any other number of life factors line up against you, it doesn't matter how smart you are, you are still going to fail.

Now, take me for instance, I make less now than I did 5 years ago. And it has steadily decreased year over year, due to the problems of the industry. Couple that with the fact that I work twice as hard to make less money, and I would say it is probably beyond my control...Am I stupid too? Did I make bad choices?

I read everything you wrote in your earlier post, Scott. I still disagree.

I understand some people may not be able to save much, if any, but if you ARE able, why not do it? No, it's not an infallible buffer to bad economic times, but that doesn't make it a bad idea. You seem to be arguing something that I am not. All I am "preaching" is that it is a smart idea to save. That's it! Nothing more, nothing less. This isn't a "if you save x amount over y time, you'll be OK forever." It's about making the smarter choice to help give yourself preventative means. Think of it as a pre-flight inspection. It may not always catch every issue, and you might still crash/die/burn because of something beyond your control, but it's still a good idea to do it, right?

I apologized to 92vig earlier in the thread for coming off as condescending.

[Raf99]

Even if you can't get off your lease, ask about lease take-over options and subletting options. If your a go, then move out, in with the rents, not pay power/cable, etc, & have more than half the rent covered (or all), it would help a lot.

Best of luck.

[92vig]

Well my parents said they don't want me living with them again. So now I'm up shit creek with half a paddle. Paid my rent on Friday and they charged me $85 because they had to cancel some shit with their attorney because they FILED TO EVICT ME already. They gave me NO WARNING whatsoever. Fuck this place.