Bisimoto's Turbo build: Quest for 700whp D16Z WagoVan

[Supergenius]

SG, I am tired of arguing with people on my threads on my vast experience with hundreds of high powered factory backed and enthusiast cars versus the singular experience on their own personal cars. You are titled to your opinion, but please refrain being so directive when you have no idea what level of expertise that my company has. I doubt that you are you even aware that my setup was replicated for a customer with schedule 40, and the same "glowing" results, after some pulls on the dyno? The numbers are in my dyno vault on this individual.

EDITED for a nicer softer aproach.

I respect your efforts Bisi, but you act like youre the first guy thats made power with a turbo on this build. You seem to be offended by some of us that have made that kind of power on multiple setups stating experience.

If you have 40 glowing... Id be interested in hearing some EGT numbers and what KIND of ignition timing youre running (in addition to pressure measured say maybe at the turbine logged agaiinst boost?), but knowing you wont likely say as its your MO (and to a SLIGHT degree I understand)... It is what it is. You having an engingeering degree and all... Youre going to argue that thinwall material is going to reach apoint to where its glowing a easily as material thats around 3 times as thick??? Seriously??? We dont have to even get into the metalurgy of the 16 gauge youre using.... I get that too... It doesnt change the dynamic of the different thickness of the two materials.

I think there are some of us that have a hell of alot of a better idea than you think we do. Maybe its you that should try coming at us like some of us actually know whats going on... Im just saying.

As for limitations... The omnly limitation is one one sets on himself. Sorry if I offend you by not swingning on your nuts. At the end of the day, I wouldnt think you care.

[Tippey764]

The interior is my favorate part. I love how its all OEM they even still have the spare tire and jack lol.

[mndude07]

Regardless of material thickness, it has the same specific heat, and while you'd think a thicker walled tube would dissipate temperature more, it has more mass to retain temperature as well. Being a chemical engineer, I'm sure Bisi could explain the thermodynamic principles behind it easily. But I doubt you, or many other people, would understand it enough for him to bother.

[Supergenius]

Regardless of material thickness, it has the same specific heat, and while you'd think a thicker walled tube would dissipate temperature more, it has more mass to retain temperature as well. Being a chemical engineer, I'm sure Bisi could explain the thermodynamic principles behind it easily. But I doubt you, or many other people, would understand it enough for him to bother.

You sure about that sir??? Im pretty well versed. Probably alot better than you (or he) thinks.... There are a number of people looking round at the various threads talking about it in closed circles that are pretty well versed.....


Would YOu care to enlighten me??? Us???? Please, feel free.

[mndude07]

You sure about that sir??? Im pretty well versed.

I'm pretty confident. I'm a Mechanical engineering student, and I just finished Thermodynamics, which is what the argument is really about here.

[Supergenius]

I'm pretty confident. I'm a Mechanical engineering student, and I just finished Thermodynamics, which is what the argument is really about here.

Ya I went through the engineering Cirriculum at CSU Chico in the mid 90s. Not everyone on here is a nincompoop (SP?)

Anyways as numbers nor data will be divulged its a moot point anyways.

[mndude07]

Heat transfer is a product of mass, specific heat, and temperature change. Your specific heat remains the same regardless of wall thickness, provided the same metal is used. Your EGTs must remain constant between the thick wall and thin wall manifolds(same engine) for the argument to be valid. Thicker walled manifold has a greater mass, thus more heat transfer to the manifold. Now given the thicker tube and greater surface area, there will be some more heat dissipation, but I'm pretty sure the heat transfers would come out to be close enough that would show either manifold would reach the same temp and glow. The thicker one might just take a little longer to do so.

[Supergenius]

Heat transfer is a product of mass, specific heat, and temperature change. Your specific heat remains the same regardless of wall thickness, provided the same metal is used. Your EGTs must remain constant between the thick wall and thin wall manifolds(same engine) for the argument to be valid. Thicker walled manifold has a greater mass, thus more heat transfer to the manifold. Now given the thicker tube and greater surface area, there will be some more heat dissipation, but I'm pretty sure the heat transfers would come out to be close enough that would show either manifold would reach the same temp and glow. The thicker one might just take a little longer to do so.

Right but the difference that the (these) two materials will reach that point is definately signifigant enough to where the thinner walled material is going to reach a point to where it glows sooner, and in the long run its fatigiued sooner. Thats why I didnt even want to get into the particular metalurgy (hes using a SS with a Ti cotent to resist thermal expansion)


I gotta go make monies.... BBL.

[mndude07]

Right but the difference that the (these) two materials will reach that point is definately signifigant enough to where the thinner walled material is going to reach a point to where it glows sooner, and in the long run its fatigiued sooner


I gotta go make monies.... BBL.

If you're really driving the car, I don't think that's going to matter enough to justify the extra cost of the 40 sch pipe. Run both manifolds for 1 minute. Maybe the thin one glows the other doesnt. Run both for 5 and they're both glowing and their temperatures become constant, those 4 minutes there isn't worth the extra cost on top of the very expensive build in my opinion.

[Supergenius]

If you're really driving the car, I don't think that's going to matter enough to justify the extra cost of the 40 sch pipe. Run both manifolds for 1 minute. Maybe the thin one glows the other doesnt. Run both for 5 and they're both glowing and their temperatures become constant, those 4 minutes there isn't worth the extra cost on top of the very expensive build in my opinion.

The material hes using is not cheap FYI... Its not run of the mill mild steel nor run of the mill SS 16 Gauge. Its a specific alloy with high Ti content as mentioned before. Also I dont know ANYONE with a boosted Honda that will run it under enough load to get it to glow for 5 minutes (REGARDLESS OF GAUGE) and have an engine at the end of the session. The fact that this one does by the end of a 10 second dyno pull illustrates what I was saying clear as day. You answered (and verified) What I was saying all along. The 40 WILL NOT "glow" (nor lend itself to fatiugue) as easily, or as soon as the thinner gauge material will.

[turbo90accord]

EDITED for a nicer softer aproach.

I respect your efforts Bisi, but you act like youre the first guy thats made power with a turbo on this build. You seem to be offended by some of us that have made that kind of power on multiple setups stating experience.

I think there are some of us that have a hell of alot of a better idea than you think we do. Maybe its you that should try coming at us like some of us actually know whats going on... Im just saying.

As for limitations... The omnly limitation is one one sets on himself. Sorry if I offend you by not swingning on your nuts. At the end of the day, I wouldnt think you care.

Im not one to flame but i do agree. Out here in colorado we have quite a single cam community and have seen 650hp d-series engines two years ago we have done many innovative things to obtain 950hp h-series engines and 1100hp+ f20's. click here for f20 crazyness info

If you looking into Taguchi or Demings principles of quality assurance youll find that they always state that in order to succeed in business one must never underestimate their potential customer knowledge.

[Supergenius]

Im not one to flame but i do agree. Out here in colorado we have quite a single cam community and have seen 650hp d-series engines two years ago we have done many innovative things to obtain 950hp h-series engines and 1100hp+ f20's. click here for f20 crazyness info

If you looking into Taguchi or Demings principles of quality assurance youll find that they always state that in order to succeed in business one must never underestimate their potential customer knowledge.

I will now shut my mouth and publicly appologize to Bisi. Just got off the phone with "a friend". Car made 700. On Pump and Meth. I was wrong...

It would make sense with SUPER conservative timing that the EGTS would be so high as to make the manifold glow like that.... Having to run said timing even with the meth in order to deal with the detonation threshold must have meant a SHITLOA of boost. The combination getting egts that high is scary all things considered that even with all of the efforts into taking knock into consideration, with the cooling of the water/meth that it still got that hot.

I want to see numbers and will be quiet until I do.

I heard that its even nicer in person as well...

IF SO.....Thats some crazy stuff man... Thats some seriously crazy stuff.

Congrats.

[Tnwagn]

Wow, props to you for apologizing. Regaurdless of everything else it takes a truely good person to admit fault.

Back on topic, PLEATHER INTERIOR!!!!!!

[Ghetto_CB7]

In for results

I would also like to point out to those that are not engineering majors / degree holders that neither bisi or super genius was wrong.

Super simply was not informed of the extremely high egt's (the numbers of which we may never know), but the principles he stated are true.

the only confusion lied in how long it would take the schedule 40 material to reach temperatures required to 'glow'.

And as Super implied, they must be INTENSE for it to glow under a short dyno session!

Thumbs up on an amazing build, and conversation (just so you know I am an ee major)

[speedfr3ak]

bisi....bisi......bisi...

u made super street lol i mean honda street but ne way u shoulda made the cover props make our sohc honda owners proud