59 shots to kill one man?

[evil_demon_01]

The amount of shots isn't really relevant.
If the suspect was still standing on the 58th shot and the 59th shot dropped him, then what is the issue
It's not like they were shooting him while he was dead lying on the ground. (going from what I read)

This is also a good example of the media imo . . . Portraying the incident to make people stand on exactly one side (or the otherside) of the fence
Did anyone here see the WHOLE incident unfold? I highly doubt it.


Btw race should not even be brought into this thread

[turbomaxx]

59 shots seems excessive, but you have to remember, they police didn't wait to ask who wanted to man up and protect society, as well as themselves (the police that had responded)

He made them feel threatened, and they reacted quickly, effectively, and did EXACTLY as they were trained to do.

I see no fault here except the fucking idiot that started it.

[fatboy1185]

he was laying on the ground, lets not forget. not aiming his gun at anything, in fact the report said he was laying on top of it.

[PR CB7]

alonzo: ima kill ma self foool
officers: put the gun down!!!!!!!!!
alonzo: i aint gonna kill nobody just i
officers: damn it.... i cant go target shooting, its my sisters baby's shower
officers: want to practice now?
alonzo: i aint killing no one
officers: sir this is your last warning
alonzo: but......

[Shadow1]

well i talked to a few cops today. one of them beign the Sheriff of the County. i told him the story. let him know the details and then asked him if he would have done the same thing. when i told him how many cops there were and how many shots were fired he said

"59 shots not matter how many cops were there is too many."

i asked the officer who he was driving with and 1 other officer and all said that 59 shots on one person is excessive force. being only with 6 cops, im sure he would have been down after the 1st few shots hit his chest, head, and or back.


its not about if the guy was threat. shooting someone who is carrying a gun and is drunk IS a threat to everyone around. the fact of the matter is 59 shots were fired. in 3 vollys. that means they stopped firing and started shooting again. 59 divided by the number of cops is 10(actually 9.8 but who can fire an 8th of a bullet?). then that divided by the 3 burst. thats about 3-4 shots a cop.

so who here says a person can survive 9 shots to his body? from 6 different angles? then 31 more times after that?

if any of you can survive that many shots, please be sure to show me.


and to whoever said it, im not immature. im someone who looks at situations and if it looks bad, ill look from both sides. in this situation, the cops were in the wrong. no and i mean NO ONE no matter how drunk, high or angry will be standing, let alone be a threat, after 9-15 shots to their body. period.

and mchaley. i get my info from the cops who come by my job every day. standard issue .45 PISTOL(which they were carrying and shooting with as it says) which carries 13 rounds. if any cop is walking around with a clip thats half empty, he shouldnt be a cop.

iraqi solders have nothing to do with this. he wasnt on drugs. he didnt have some miracle drug that allows him to take 1000 AK47 shots to his body. so using that is stupid and pointless.

and if they couldnt see if the guy was pointing the gun towards them, they need to have their eyes checked. i can see 30ft away if someone is pointing something at me.

true shooting an animal isnt the same as shooting a human but the fact still remains, you shoot someone 9 times, they NOT getting up.

[nope]

"possible excessive force"?? every single one of the cops involved should be jailed. forever. i fucking hate cops

[IAmTheNight]

well i talked to a few cops today. one of them beign the Sheriff of the County. i told him the story. let him know the details and then asked him if he would have done the same thing. when i told him how many cops there were and how many shots were fired he said

"59 shots not matter how many cops were there is too many."

i asked the officer who he was driving with and 1 other officer and all said that 59 shots on one person is excessive force. being only with 6 cops, im sure he would have been down after the 1st few shots hit his chest, head, and or back.

Did you give them ALL the details?

I don't know if I can survive that many bullets, but I've provided some links at the bottom that describe similar experiences to this one. There's a ballistics test in there too. It is POSSIBLE to be mobile and threatening after enduring multiple gunshot wounds.

Those cops need to educate themselves on the effects of bullets. I am by no means an expert on firearms, and I am hoping that someone who is actually knowledgeable on ballistics will come into this thread and shed some light on this matter.

its not about if the guy was threat. shooting someone who is carrying a gun and is drunk IS a threat to everyone around. the fact of the matter is 59 shots were fired. in 3 vollys. that means they stopped firing and started shooting again. 59 divided by the number of cops is 10(actually 9.8 but who can fire an 8th of a bullet?). then that divided by the 3 burst. thats about 3-4 shots a cop.

so who here says a person can survive 9 shots to his body? from 6 different angles? then 31 more times after that?

if any of you can survive that many shots, please be sure to show me.

and to whoever said it, im not immature. im someone who looks at situations and if it looks bad, ill look from both sides. in this situation, the cops were in the wrong. no and i mean NO ONE no matter how drunk, high or angry will be standing, let alone be a threat, after 9-15 shots to their body. period.

The .45 caliber bullet is a compromise between offense and defense. The bullets that police officers use aren't really designed for overkill or to rip apart flesh. It is plausible that the perp continued to make threatening movements even after being shot so many times. That would not be a unique situation. In order for a bullet to incapacitate, it has to disrupt organs and/or other bodily functions or cause psychological trauma. There are many things that can prevent this from happening-angle, clothing, bone, muscle mass, bullet quality, etc. If the perp was laying down on the ground, kill shots are even harder. What makes the bullets more effective is marksmanship. As I said, better marksmen could have reduced the number of bullets fired. Bottom line is, the standard issue .45 has been PROVEN to fail on several occasions in police shootouts, but it has also been proven to be one of the most effective calibers against human targets. This case appears to be an example of the former.

and mchaley. i get my info from the cops who come by my job every day. standard issue .45 PISTOL(which they were carrying and shooting with as it says) which carries 13 rounds. if any cop is walking around with a clip thats half empty, he shouldnt be a cop.

iraqi solders have nothing to do with this. he wasnt on drugs. he didnt have some miracle drug that allows him to take 1000 AK47 shots to his body. so using that is stupid and pointless.

and if they couldnt see if the guy was pointing the gun towards them, they need to have their eyes checked. i can see 30ft away if someone is pointing something at me.

true shooting an animal isnt the same as shooting a human but the fact still remains, you shoot someone 9 times, they NOT getting up.

Who said any of those officers had half empty clips? They could have had fully loaded clips, exhausted them, and found it necessary to reload to fire again. Some exhausted their magazines, and some did not. For the third time, we don't know who did what or how many bullets each officer had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP
http://www.internetarmory.com/self_defense.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell_StoppingPower.htm
http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/45acp.htm
http://www.fsdip.com/website/VBRBelg...4/Default.aspx

[Pandemic]

he was laying on the ground, lets not forget. not aiming his gun at anything, in fact the report said he was laying on top of it.

Drunk, suicidal guy + illegally owned rifle = THREAT. End of story.

59 shots seems excessive, but you have to remember, they police didn't wait to ask who wanted to man up and protect society, as well as themselves (the police that had responded)

He made them feel threatened, and they reacted quickly, effectively, and did EXACTLY as they were trained to do.

I see no fault here except the fucking idiot that started it.

Finally, something that makes sense.

The amount of shots isn't really relevant.
If the suspect was still standing on the 58th shot and the 59th shot dropped him, then what is the issue
It's not like they were shooting him while he was dead lying on the ground. (going from what I read)

This is also a good example of the media imo . . . Portraying the incident to make people stand on exactly one side (or the otherside) of the fence
Did anyone here see the WHOLE incident unfold? I highly doubt it.


Btw race should not even be brought into this thread

AGREE


Ugh, you again...

well i talked to a few cops today. one of them beign the Sheriff of the County. i told him the story. let him know the details and then asked him if he would have done the same thing. when i told him how many cops there were and how many shots were fired he said

"59 shots not matter how many cops were there is too many."
He wasn't there. A cop shouldn't have to sign his name promising to use only x rounds to shoot a threat.
i asked the officer who he was driving with and 1 other officer and all said that 59 shots on one person is excessive force. being only with 6 cops, im sure he would have been down after the 1st few shots hit his chest, head, and or back.

You know that you can cut someone's heart out of their body and they'll live for a few minutes? If a guy gets shot in the heart he can still function for a short period of time - 30 seconds or so? Wait, that's how long this shoot out took to play out!

its not about if the guy was threat. shooting someone who is carrying a gun and is drunk IS a threat to everyone around. the fact of the matter is 59 shots were fired. in 3 vollys. that means they stopped firing and started shooting again. 59 divided by the number of cops is 10(actually 9.8 but who can fire an 8th of a bullet?). then that divided by the 3 burst. thats about 3-4 shots a cop.

I see. So threats all have the same number of required rounds and you can't go past that, eh? Your math is finally correct at least. They stopped firing, assessed the situation, still were threatened, so they continued firing. Would it have been better or worse if they shot 59 rounds without stopping?

so who here says a person can survive 9 shots to his body? from 6 different angles? then 31 more times after that?

if any of you can survive that many shots, please be sure to show me.


and to whoever said it, im not immature. im someone who looks at situations and if it looks bad, ill look from both sides. in this situation, the cops were in the wrong. no and i mean NO ONE no matter how drunk, high or angry will be standing, let alone be a threat, after 9-15 shots to their body. period.

phew! that makes me feel better, thanks!

and mchaley. i get my info from the cops who come by my job every day. standard issue .45 PISTOL(which they were carrying and shooting with as it says) which carries 13 rounds. if any cop is walking around with a clip thats half empty, he shouldnt be a cop.

Read the second article. It says they carry 9 rounds. Most likely it's a single stack 1911 type .45 with 8 rounds in the mag and 1 in the tube. Wait, 9 isn't 10... they must have reloaded! Why did you caps 'pistol' anyway? 'Standard issue' depends based on state and even county. All cops I know do what's called 'top up' where they load a mag, close the slide, and then eject the mag to put 1 more round in. According to you, 13 rounds is standard issue. You also said that "if any cop is walking around with a mag that's half empty, he shouldn't be a cop." But... 13x6 is 78! That's 19 more than what you call excessive force. Pick a side and stick to it.

iraqi solders have nothing to do with this. he wasnt on drugs. he didnt have some miracle drug that allows him to take 1000 AK47 shots to his body. so using that is stupid and pointless.

Stupid and pointless, eh? Ok. Maybe or maybe he wasn't on drugs in addition to alcohol. I didn't see the Tox report. Point is, people under the influence feel less pain and can be more aggressive. That's my point.

and if they couldnt see if the guy was pointing the gun towards them, they need to have their eyes checked. i can see 30ft away if someone is pointing something at me.

Once again, the cops felt threatened. I think if he was pointing the rifle in a safe direction the entire time things would have ended differently...

true shooting an animal isnt the same as shooting a human but the fact still remains, you shoot someone 9 times, they NOT getting up.

"possible excessive force"?? every single one of the cops involved should be jailed. forever. i fucking hate cops

And there's nope with the kicker. Funny how only criminals hate cops, isn't it?

[MikeW]

This is disgusting.

Im not even going to read all 4 pages thus far. This is is BIG BIG BIG --> <---

Jesus Christ....

[turbomaxx]

And to every motherfucker in the WORLD, not just this forum, that runs around saying they "fucking hate cops" guess what!

My father was a police officer for 16 years. He put drug dealers in jail. He pulled women and children out of burning cars. He pulled dying teenagers out of their mangled cars and got them the medical assistance needed to keep them alive. And he had to go tell parents the worst news in the world, that the thing they loved most on earth died tonight and there's no changing it.

You might "fucking hate cops" but cops are THE ONLY reason you are alive. Without them, it would be chaos. People would murder eachother one by one.

Police do a job that we can't. You think all they do is issue tickets? You're fucking wrong. I don't know a single person besides my father that could pull a dead teenager out of a car and then have to go the house of their family, wake them up and tell them that their baby is dead.

I'm sure plenty of people will make fun of this post, but I'll be fine with that since I know that anyone who could mock something like that is not capable of doing it themself.

Next time you see a cop you should thank them for the work they do, and pray for them to never have to pull parts of a dead kid or friend out of a car, or house, or ditch.

[Shadow1]

And to every motherfucker in the WORLD, not just this forum, that runs around saying they "fucking hate cops" guess what!

My father was a police officer for 16 years. He put drug dealers in jail. He pulled women and children out of burning cars. He pulled dying teenagers out of their mangled cars and got them the medical assistance needed to keep them alive. And he had to go tell parents the worst news in the world, that the thing they loved most on earth died tonight and there's no changing it.

You might "fucking hate cops" but cops are THE ONLY reason you are alive. Without them, it would be chaos. People would murder eachother one by one.

Police do a job that we can't. You think all they do is issue tickets? You're fucking wrong. I don't know a single person besides my father that could pull a dead teenager out of a car and then have to go the house of their family, wake them up and tell them that their baby is dead.

I'm sure plenty of people will make fun of this post, but I'll be fine with that since I know that anyone who could mock something like that is not capable of doing it themself.

Next time you see a cop you should thank them for the work they do, and pray for them to never have to pull parts of a dead kid or friend out of a car, or house, or ditch.

i thank cops every day for the work they do in my area. i have nothing against cops at all man. and im happy you have a dad who got to retire from his work with his life.

ignore the idiots in this thread that have nothing to contribute. the ones who just come in to say "cops suck." "screw cops." and "f*** the police." if your just coming in to say that, GTFO. we're actually having a decent conversation in there.

[According2Aaron]

"possible excessive force"?? every single one of the cops involved should be jailed. forever. i fucking hate cops

I hope you get mugged and assaulted and have to call the police to come and save your sorry ass so you'll appreciate them. Without police officers, who are you going to call in an emergency? ... ... ... Thought so.

And to every motherfucker in the WORLD, not just this forum, that runs around saying they "fucking hate cops" guess what!

My father was a police officer for 16 years. He put drug dealers in jail. He pulled women and children out of burning cars. He pulled dying teenagers out of their mangled cars and got them the medical assistance needed to keep them alive. And he had to go tell parents the worst news in the world, that the thing they loved most on earth died tonight and there's no changing it.

You might "fucking hate cops" but cops are THE ONLY reason you are alive. Without them, it would be chaos. People would murder eachother one by one.

Police do a job that we can't. You think all they do is issue tickets? You're fucking wrong. I don't know a single person besides my father that could pull a dead teenager out of a car and then have to go the house of their family, wake them up and tell them that their baby is dead.

I'm sure plenty of people will make fun of this post, but I'll be fine with that since I know that anyone who could mock something like that is not capable of doing it themself.

Next time you see a cop you should thank them for the work they do, and pray for them to never have to pull parts of a dead kid or friend out of a car, or house, or ditch.

Good on you for sharing that. Haters take the law for granted and run their mouths because they can. Anyway, tell him thanks on behalf of CB7Tuner, even for the pricks that hate cops for no reason.

[turbomaxx]

Agreed. I don't think you are an idiot for thinking differently than me, nor does Mchaley. I do however think you're wrong. But like I've said before, If we all thought the exact same way about everything life would be bland.

Food for thought though: The three vollys might be because he was still moving. Depending on where he was hit, he was likely still alive. He might have moved and the police might have thought "Finish the job, protect my brothers and society."

If he gets hit, and starts moving, and the cops DON'T kill him, and he manages to get a shot off at a police officer and kill one, imagine that.

I'd rather read:
"Suicidal man shot 59 times and killed by police who felt threatened"

than read
"Local police officer killed by suicidal man last night"

in the newspaper tomorrow.

And also remember that police NEVER want to shoot a suspect. That gun is not to stop criminals, it's to stop a criminal from taking your life. Most police pray every morning that God could keep them from using their duty weapon. These police have to live with this the rest of their lives now, knowing that they took a man's life. Whether or not your life is in danger, killing a man is a BIG deal, and not something that melts off. It stays with you forever.

[Pandemic]

This is disgusting.

Im not even going to read all 4 pages thus far. This is is BIG BIG BIG --> <---

Jesus Christ....

Enlighten us.

i thank cops every day for the work they do in my area. i have nothing against cops at all man. and im happy you have a dad who got to retire from his work with his life.

ignore the idiots in this thread that have nothing to contribute. the ones who just come in to say "cops suck." "screw cops." and "f*** the police." if your just coming in to say that, GTFO. we're actually having a decent conversation in there.

Finally, I get to say it: I agree

Police Officers do sometimes abuse their powers. Dirty cops should be locked away with an even higher standard than normal people. If they are negligent they should be prosecuted. I won't stand for the constant bad mouthing of police and using police as a scapegoat.

[turbomaxx]

I hope you get mugged and assaulted and have to call the police to come and save your sorry ass so you'll appreciate them. Without police officers, who are you going to call in an emergency? ... ... ... Thought so.



Good on you for sharing that. Haters take the law for granted and run their mouths because they can. Anyway, tell him thanks on behalf of CB7Tuner, even for the pricks that hate cops for no reason.

I will tell him that. Appreciation for a job that hard never goes un-noticed. My father never had to kill a man, but I remember seeing my dad cry. A grown man, larger than god himself in my eyes when I was a kid. And he cried like a child some times. Because he pulled a dead teenager out of a mangled car that night.

I can't even imagine what that does to your mind to see that first hand, an 18 year old kid that wasn't wearing a seatbelt, driving drunk and runs out of luck. And then having to pull them out of the car, having to get medics there, and when it's too late, telling another parent that news.

This is why I don't street race anymore. if I can help it, I'll never do that to my parents. Someone might wreck into me one day, but that's out of my hands. I'm not going to press the issue.