apple exec to microsoft. "stop airing your commercials"

[owequitit]

You can turn on two finger tap to right click. I love this feature and actually find it faster than right clicking on my old dell. I love the scrolls, and I like three finger scrolling to go forward and back in safari, in iTunes, or in my photo gallery. The touch pads really are great.

I haven't owned Vista so I didn't realize you could turn those boxes off. I just found them SO annoying when trying to help my friends adjust their displays etc. Honestly, I'm logged in let me do simple stuff.

Sleep light, I love it. But just turn the laptop around if you don't want to look at it? Or turn it off? Understandable complaint but hardly relevant in the large scheme of things.

PS: such a smart guy like yourself already memorized ctrl+click so it really can't be too hard.

Yeah, it took me an hour to remember that from 1988 which was about the last time I used an Apple product prior to checking my email on my sister's. There was no curve associated with right click.

[ilovemycb7]

The main reason MS OS's end up being so cumbersome is because of the shit they have to run. Like I said, you are literally talking MILLIONS of combinations of parts that must be accomodated. And, Microsoft has to try and maximize those combos working together. That in and of itself leads to extra bulk.

Apparently, the other thing with MS, that I didn't know, is that even though MS will tell you that XP and to some extent Vista aren't still based on DOS, a friend of mine who worked for them for 25 years says they more or less are. One thing that has made windows so cumbersome is that they are still sort of using a patchwork of old 80's technology to make this new stuff run. I don't know if that is the case with Windows 7 or not. I will have to ask him. In that regard, MS is somewhat in a catch 22 because they have to try to accomodate as much of the old stuff as possible, in addition to the new stuff, so they are left straddling this divide.

It reminds me of Boeing versus Airbus. Airbus says "oh look how streamlined our airplanes are, they are not varied and cumbersome like Boeing." But that is because they didn't have 40 years worth of airplanes and tens of thousands of airplanes, and hundreds, if not thousands of customers to be compatible with. Boeing does. Plus, a lot of it is fluff, because when you get into a Boeing, you realize that it is setup like most of the airplanes you have already flown, and it is standardized with every other airplane ever made. Whereas with Airbus, they go on and on about ease of use and "commonality" but what they don't tell you is that you have to completely unlearn nearly everything you already learned because not only do they have their own control philosophy, they have their own terms, jargon and methodoloiges that fundamentally go against every other airplane ever made. It reminds me a lot of Apple and their marketing.

Interesting. I don't think I've unlearned much with an apple. I'd imagine flying an airplane requires a lot more knowledge than using my computer.

And that's what I was saying by "add add add." Imagine how much more efficient the MS OS's would be if they recoded everything to incorporate the old with the new, with out all of the junk. But they can't meet release dates and things start to slip...

Supposedly the new Apple OS offers nothing new and shiny on the outside yet does just what I mentioned above. Consolidates the OS to be more efficient. Sounds good to me.

[owequitit]

the part that bothers me, is that 90% of the complaints about PCs are from people who dont REALLY, HONESTLY know how to really USE them.

they know how to use them, and quickly break them, and then get upset that there isnt a "pc repair store" in the local mall.

personally, ive been a general COMPUTER user since they came out way back in the day (before internet... before graphics screens... before HARD DRIVES or internal memory) and with all of my experience starting with a few years of MAC usage (and programming!! basic.. logo.. gwb...) and through every choice ive made (im no "normal" user) ive found PCs to be BY FAR a much better choice.

apples are worth the price if you want SPECIFIC audio/video/image software... but i can never willingly pay twice the price just to get the package pre assembled for me - i get to pick every detail down to every spec, save half the money, and still have it be tailored exactly to my desires. and still have thousands of options for upgrades, tweaks, and thousands of hardware and software customizations. who DOESNT want that? people who dont feel like dealing with it - and thats definitely not me.




p.s. the mac OS interface completely blows.

LOL! Our first PC was a Kaypro 8088 with a black and white screen. My first computer (aside from the Commodore 64c) was one of those giant, 30lb steel cased Kaypro portables, with the keyboard that hooked to the front. It wasn't good for much, but we used to use it to pretend we were in the military, because it may just have been bulletproof.

[ilovemycb7]

Yeah, it took me an hour to remember that from 1988 which was about the last time I used an Apple product prior to checking my email on my sister's. There was no curve associated with right click.

Haha. Apple has nearly admitted defeat by incorporating right click into their OS fully. And, like I said, two finger tap gets the job done nice and easily. Hell, with the new trackpad you can set it up so that right clicking on the bottom of it works just like right clicking.

Right click is a pretty lame excuse to not like an OS.

[owequitit]

Interesting. I don't think I've unlearned much with an apple. I'd imagine flying an airplane requires a lot more knowledge than using my computer.

And that's what I was saying by "add add add." Imagine how much more efficient the MS OS's would be if they recoded everything to incorporate the old with the new, with out all of the junk. But they can't meet release dates and things start to slip...

Supposedly the new Apple OS offers nothing new and shiny on the outside yet does just what I mentioned above. Consolidates the OS to be more efficient. Sounds good to me.

Well, like I said, I can't speak for Windows 7, as I haven't tried it yet, and don't know much about it. It is possible they have already done this.

The Boeing vs Airbus thing was metaphorical. To some extent, yes, you do have to learn new stuff when switching between the two. It is not as much as in an airplane, no, but you do do it, even if you don't look back and realize it. The more metaphorical part was Microsoft having a much larger set of demands to meet, and expectations to fill. Apple builds a machine and then an OS that has to run it. With the PC, some fat dude in a basement builds a machine and then EXPECTS Microsoft to be able to run it. Finally, the metaphorical thing that also applies to Apple is that they expect the consumer to change to THEIR way of doing things. They have always had this "we are Apple, and this is how WE do it. If you don't like that, tough." And the masses spoke in droves. Similarly, Airbus came along, and completely turned ease and convention on its head because they thought that people should be doing it their way, regardless what the people thought. It is a polite way for them to say they know what is better for you than you do, even if they are wrong.

[owequitit]

Haha. Apple has nearly admitted defeat by incorporating right click into their OS fully. And, like I said, two finger tap gets the job done nice and easily. Hell, with the new trackpad you can set it up so that right clicking on the bottom of it works just like right clicking.

Right click is a pretty lame excuse to not like an OS.

But that's the beauty of a free market. We get to be choosie about such things. If I want right click, and you don't give it to me, then I go to someone who does. In trying to increase their market share, Apple has no choice but to make wider accomodations for a wider set of demands. Wait until people start demanding to be able to upgrade it on their own.

[ilovemycb7]

Well, my laptop is a 17" screen and I don't know if my sister's is or not. Hers was a little lighter, but not tons. The sleep light lights up the whole room. Turning it around does nothing.

As far as environmental impact on the screen, I don't know. It sounds to me like it is something that Apple markets that nobody else does.

Truth. The green campaign is tired imo. But it is what it is, and people will pay for it.

[deevergote]

To comment on Mike's reply (I hadn't seen that...)

It's true that the majority of the PC users with complaints don't know how to use them. All of the computers that I fix (and I'm no wizard... I have a barely functional knowledge of hardware and software...) tend to be owned by my friends' parents, or my TOTALLY un-tech-savvy friends. Most of my female friends love to download pictures, screen savers, and videos of cute puppies and kitties. Their parents will open every email attachment sent to them, no matter what.

My virus scan software expired a while back. I went for 6 months without, before I finally decided to get something new. Not a single virus was found when I scanned with the new stuff. That's a minor detail... but still.

[ilovemycb7]

But that's the beauty of a free market. We get to be choosie about such things. If I want right click, and you don't give it to me, then I go to someone who does. In trying to increase their market share, Apple has no choice but to make wider accomodations for a wider set of demands. Wait until people start demanding to be able to upgrade it on their own.

Or until apple tells them they can't anymore. People seem to be falling for it. Personally it doesn't bother me b/c I have a laptop. And as I've mentioned they are already hard to upgrade, a pc really doesn't have an advantage there.

For a desktop, that's different. Although most people aren't into upgrading their computer so the thinner profile of the iMac works for them.

Upgrading is awesome to throw around and say hey, I could replace this if I wanted to. But most people don't, and apple capitalizes on that.

[ilovemycb7]

To comment on Mike's reply (I hadn't seen that...)

It's true that the majority of the PC users with complaints don't know how to use them. All of the computers that I fix (and I'm no wizard... I have a barely functional knowledge of hardware and software...) tend to be owned by my friends' parents, or my TOTALLY un-tech-savvy friends. Most of my female friends love to download pictures, screen savers, and videos of cute puppies and kitties. Their parents will open every email attachment sent to them, no matter what.

My virus scan software expired a while back. I went for 6 months without, before I finally decided to get something new. Not a single virus was found when I scanned with the new stuff. That's a minor detail... but still.

True.

I ran my old dell for 6 years and at least a year of that I didn't have any virus software. I never had problems, but I did get slowed down by adware and spyware that I never realized was there. My PC ran great though, I just like how effortless my Mac is.

[owequitit]

Or until apple tells them they can't anymore. People seem to be falling for it. Personally it doesn't bother me b/c I have a laptop. And as I've mentioned they are already hard to upgrade, a pc really doesn't have an advantage there.

For a desktop, that's different. Although most people aren't into upgrading their computer so the thinner profile of the iMac works for them.

Upgrading is awesome to throw around and say hey, I could replace this if I wanted to. But most people don't, and apple capitalizes on that.

I don't know if you have noticed or not, but in a free market system where the customer is boss, telling them they can't, doesn't go over so good. Apple tried that once. Which is probably why there will be a double click now. They seem to understand at least a little better this time around who is in charge, and it ain't Steve Jobs.

If nobody upgrades their PC's then why do places like Newegg.com exist, and why does every Best Buy have a section 3 times the size of the entire Apple section with PC hardware in it? One would think if the market was negligible, then they wouldn't be making billions of dollars a year doing it. In fact, I would almost wager than the "upgrade" market is probably bigger in terms of revenue that Apple's entire balance sheet.

The fact is that people may or may not upgrade laptops (I have known quite a few that have actually), but they have that option. It is about options. You can if you want, but you don't have to. With Apple, you can't. No matter what, unless you want to pay a ton of money to let them do it for you.

A lot more people end up upgrading than you think. Maybe they need it to run just a little faster, but can't really buy a new one, so they upgrade the memory. Or they need more pictures, so they upgrade the hard drive.

One mistake I see PC buyers make ALL THE TIME, is not specing a system to their requirements. So they get it because it is cheap, and they realize very quickly, that it isn't adequate. So what do they do? They just bought it, so they go spend a few dollars here, and a few dollars there, and pretty soon, they have spent more than had they just bought the better system in the first place. One reason my XP machine still runs so good, is that I built it to do what I wanted when I bought it. It still does that mission, so I haven't had to upgrade much. I added more memory to help a little, but other than that, it has had nothing changed. Now, let's say that same buyer buys the cheap Macbook, because it is cheaper and that is all they can afford, and then they decide they want to do something else that it can't quite handle? Then what?

Here's another one since the largest portion of PC's are used for business. What if your mission changes slightly and you need to have a little more capability, but you can't justify the cost of replacing your entire network. Let's say you need a little more power. If you own PC's what do you do? If you own Mac's what do you do, and at what cost in each scenario?

[J-specCb4]

the truth about Macs marketing....


market your product like this:



sleek, minimalist, and forward thinking



but actually sell them this:






trendy, simple, and overpriced.

refer to my second post on the first page...

[foamypirate]

I will never own a Mac, primarily because I am a huge gamer, and secondly, because you just can't upgrade them, as Owequitit has mentioned.
I can't count how many times I've upgraded my current system.

I'm on my 3rd video card (7900GTX, 8800GTX, now a 9800GTX+), sitting at 8GB of RAM, upgraded my 80GB Raptor to a 150GB Raptor, etc.
Oh, and when's the last time you heard of someone overclocking a Mac? Sure, it's possible, but not many do it. I've pushed my Core 2 Duo from 2.4ghz to 3.2ghz, completely stable.

If I'd bought a Mac, I'd be sitting at 6 grand worth of upgrades, because I'd have to buy a whole new system each time mine became inadequate for my needs (I do a lot of gaming, so always upgrading my GFX to the latest/greatest).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0y25GAHIlM

[deevergote]

Wow, you can overclock those things that much? I should try it on mine! I forget what I got, but I know it was a dual core...

[J-specCb4]

my bottom line is, i can create the workflow that i need on my macbook. i can also close it and take it with me and do everything i need on the fly.... a microsoft based pc... not so much.