apple exec to microsoft. "stop airing your commercials"

[ilovemycb7]

I don't know if you have noticed or not, but in a free market system where the customer is boss, telling them they can't, doesn't go over so good. Apple tried that once. Which is probably why there will be a double click now. They seem to understand at least a little better this time around who is in charge, and it ain't Steve Jobs.

If nobody upgrades their PC's then why do places like Newegg.com exist, and why does every Best Buy have a section 3 times the size of the entire Apple section with PC hardware in it? One would think if the market was negligible, then they wouldn't be making billions of dollars a year doing it. In fact, I would almost wager than the "upgrade" market is probably bigger in terms of revenue that Apple's entire balance sheet.

The fact is that people may or may not upgrade laptops (I have known quite a few that have actually), but they have that option. It is about options. You can if you want, but you don't have to. With Apple, you can't. No matter what, unless you want to pay a ton of money to let them do it for you.

A lot more people end up upgrading than you think. Maybe they need it to run just a little faster, but can't really buy a new one, so they upgrade the memory. Or they need more pictures, so they upgrade the hard drive.

One mistake I see PC buyers make ALL THE TIME, is not specing a system to their requirements. So they get it because it is cheap, and they realize very quickly, that it isn't adequate. So what do they do? They just bought it, so they go spend a few dollars here, and a few dollars there, and pretty soon, they have spent more than had they just bought the better system in the first place. One reason my XP machine still runs so good, is that I built it to do what I wanted when I bought it. It still does that mission, so I haven't had to upgrade much. I added more memory to help a little, but other than that, it has had nothing changed. Now, let's say that same buyer buys the cheap Macbook, because it is cheaper and that is all they can afford, and then they decide they want to do something else that it can't quite handle? Then what?

Here's another one since the largest portion of PC's are used for business. What if your mission changes slightly and you need to have a little more capability, but you can't justify the cost of replacing your entire network. Let's say you need a little more power. If you own PC's what do you do? If you own Mac's what do you do, and at what cost in each scenario?

I don't know if you've noticed, but I already mentioned that apple has admitted defeat by incorporating the double click already. (And in my opinion, better than on my dell) At least equal since you can physically push the right side of either their mouse, or their touch pad and receive the same effects. (current gen of computers)

I'd make a wager on that bet. Your best buy claim is a bit ridiculous, considering that "hardware" covers many more products than internal upgrades. However, the upgrade market does exist, I'll give you that. But personally, I know maybe 2 people (a far reach, old acquaintances from HS) that upgrade their computer. I'd bet that, by a large majority, consumers on average do not upgrade their computers beyond ram and hard drive. (Both of which I could do myself on a Mac.) And that gets back to my point; that Apple has been able to get away with less upgradeability since many consumers are willing to trade off the ability to upgrade for a thinner, sleeker, profile.

And I wasn't aware that you could upgrade so many parts on a laptop. On my mac I could upgrade the batter, hard drive, and memory all myself. Just like on a PC.

I don't believe I made the claim that a Mac is an end all product. I just made the claim that it's a premium consumer product, at a premium price. Like other premium items they have extra features and differences that some may or may not care about, and a price which differentiates them from the crowd. As apple prices lower we will see if their products continue to be a premium.

[owequitit]

I don't know if you've noticed, but I already mentioned that apple has admitted defeat by incorporating the double click already. (And in my opinion, better than on my dell) At least equal since you can physically push the right side of either their mouse, or their touch pad and receive the same effects. (current gen of computers)

I'd make a wager on that bet. Your best buy claim is a bit ridiculous, considering that "hardware" covers many more products than internal upgrades. However, the upgrade market does exist, I'll give you that. But personally, I know maybe 2 people (a far reach, old acquaintances from HS) that upgrade their computer. I'd bet that, by a large majority, consumers on average do not upgrade their computers beyond ram and hard drive. (Both of which I could do myself on a Mac.) And that gets back to my point; that Apple has been able to get away with less upgradeability since many consumers are willing to trade off the ability to upgrade for a thinner, sleeker, profile.

And I wasn't aware that you could upgrade so many parts on a laptop. On my mac I could upgrade the batter, hard drive, and memory all myself. Just like on a PC.

I don't believe I made the claim that a Mac is an end all product. I just made the claim that it's a premium consumer product, at a premium price. Like other premium items they have extra features and differences that some may or may not care about, and a price which differentiates them from the crowd. As apple prices lower we will see if their products continue to be a premium.

See, now you are starting to get defensive about it.

I know your comment about the mouse pad. I did see it, which is why I responded to it. For some reason, you are starting to get defensive, when all I did was point out that was necessary on Mac's part if they want to increase market share. Nothing else was implied or stated. I also made the point that this flies in direct contrast of their previous mentallity of more or less TELLING the consumer what they wanted, and if they didn't like it too bad. I have dealt with Mac since the 1980's and that is how they were then, and that is almost what got them killed. In regards to the upgradability and proprietary stuff, they are still in many ways the same. But, they want more money and they have learned twice, the hard way, that if they want the consumers to keep coming in droves, they WILL give them what they want. Nothing else was said or implied.

I never said you thought Mac was the end all solution.

But to tie in the original point, everytime someone says something against Mac, the owners crawl out of the woodwork like vampires to attack anything and everything that moves. Yet, PC owners are just supposed to sit there and pretend PC's have no inherent advantages whatsoever, and they should be ashamed of the superiority of the Mac. Much like these commercials. Apple thinks it is fine and dandy to go ahead and make an entire smear campaign, but when Microsoft responds in kind, the Apple legal department cries foul. It is honestly kind of funny.

Now, before you get all pissed off, I am NOT saying that you have that attitude. But notice that this thread turned into a PC vs Mac debate. Choose whichever suits you best, but make no mistake, there are plenty of rational reasons to choose either.

[bcjammerx]

see what people forget is what people are using the machines for.... for my tedious graphic/photo work the OS is absolutely perfect to make my day easier. bottom line is it works for my needs, and honestly cost doesnt come into play when it makes my life easier and a macbook cost less than one lens for my camera.

that is the main thing macs are made for...but if your aren't doing that ALL the time and that isn't the ONLY thing you do...then they are actually not that great of a computer.

You CAN get just as good software for pc's

You are truly one of the few that has not had problems a PC. I have owned several PCs and had several problems with each. I have 4 Apples and never had an issue with any of them. No freezing, no viruses, no problems. As far as service, I'm about 10 minutes from an Apple store that does in-house repairs.

all the issues I've ever had with my pc's...aside from random windows crashes...were ALWAYS a direct result of something I tampered with.

Dude, it's a laptop. You really can't go beyond ram or HD in any laptop...

You can upgrade RAM on most all, HD on most...and video card on MANY laptops...I've been pricing them.

And...when you say MAC you refer to the hardware and software...pc...not so.

To me MAC says overpriced, over rated, a little condescending too...

[J-specCb4]

that is the main thing macs are made for...but if your aren't doing that ALL the time and that isn't the ONLY thing you do...then they are actually not that great of a computer.

You CAN get just as good software for pc's

see, not really... i use my computer for pretty much everything. it has been more reliable, and faster running than any pc ive ever had. i know that doesnt say much but thats not really my point. also the os is what makes my computer work for me as well as the visual capabilities... theres just something different about editing on my macbook compared to a pc. sure u can upgrade video cards and do whatever it is u want, but for a laptop that i use for everything i got my money on my macbook. just because people dont want to give in to the fact that they are expensive and not very mod friendly doesnt make them any less adequate for my use, or anyone else who does similar work. have fun modding pcs. ill have fun just using my macbook. im not a computer echnologist and dont claim to be i just want something that works without the headaches.

[sackingz123]

F APPLE, overrated pos crap.

[ilovemycb7]

See, now you are starting to get defensive about it.

I know your comment about the mouse pad. I did see it, which is why I responded to it. For some reason, you are starting to get defensive, when all I did was point out that was necessary on Mac's part if they want to increase market share. Nothing else was implied or stated. I also made the point that this flies in direct contrast of their previous mentallity of more or less TELLING the consumer what they wanted, and if they didn't like it too bad. I have dealt with Mac since the 1980's and that is how they were then, and that is almost what got them killed. In regards to the upgradability and proprietary stuff, they are still in many ways the same. But, they want more money and they have learned twice, the hard way, that if they want the consumers to keep coming in droves, they WILL give them what they want. Nothing else was said or implied.

I never said you thought Mac was the end all solution.

But to tie in the original point, everytime someone says something against Mac, the owners crawl out of the woodwork like vampires to attack anything and everything that moves. Yet, PC owners are just supposed to sit there and pretend PC's have no inherent advantages whatsoever, and they should be ashamed of the superiority of the Mac. Much like these commercials. Apple thinks it is fine and dandy to go ahead and make an entire smear campaign, but when Microsoft responds in kind, the Apple legal department cries foul. It is honestly kind of funny.

Now, before you get all pissed off, I am NOT saying that you have that attitude. But notice that this thread turned into a PC vs Mac debate. Choose whichever suits you best, but make no mistake, there are plenty of rational reasons to choose either.

You brought up the business side of things, to which I simply ignored you by stating that I didn't claim Mac's were for everyone.

The entire thread has been about defending one side against the other. And naturally, a thread created in light of Apple going after Microsoft will turn into a discussion. No surprises here.

For all of the apple fans that crawl out to defend their computers, just as many PC fans shout back. Mac and PC users are both labeled.

You pay a premium price for a premium product. Whether or not this product is for you isn't the point. I think your last sentence sums it up pretty well.

[owequitit]

You brought up the business side of things, to which I simply ignored you by stating that I didn't claim Mac's were for everyone.

The entire thread has been about defending one side against the other. And naturally, a thread created in light of Apple going after Microsoft will turn into a discussion. No surprises here.

For all of the apple fans that crawl out to defend their computers, just as many PC fans shout back. Mac and PC users are both labeled.

You pay a premium price for a premium product. Whether or not this product is for you isn't the point. I think your last sentence sums it up pretty well.

"You pay a premium price for a premium product." See that is how this shit gets started.

What makes your product premium? Define "premium" for me. I am dumb.

This is what makes Mac users labeled as pricks, because the ONLY way that can be taken is as condescending. So I am curious. What is "premium?"

Do you get twice the memory? Twice the power? Twice the reliability and longevity? Twice the storage capacity? Twice the graphical ability? Because I bet you paid AT LEAST twice the price.

[foamypirate]

"You pay a premium price for a premium product." See that is how this shit gets started.

What makes your product premium? Define "premium" for me. I am dumb.

This is what makes Mac users labeled as pricks, because the ONLY way that can be taken is as condescending. So I am curious. What is "premium?"

Do you get twice the memory? Twice the power? Twice the reliability and longevity? Twice the storage capacity? Twice the graphical ability? Because I bet you paid AT LEAST twice the price.

But, don'tcha know, you get it in an aluminum unibody frame? That's like a regular NSX right thar.

[AstroVannin]

We all know the only reason people own Mac's is so they can take their Volkswagen's to Starbucks to surf facebook and talk to people about this new band they just found.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Accurate statment

[ilovemycb7]

"You pay a premium price for a premium product." See that is how this shit gets started.

What makes your product premium? Define "premium" for me. I am dumb.

This is what makes Mac users labeled as pricks, because the ONLY way that can be taken is as condescending. So I am curious. What is "premium?"

Do you get twice the memory? Twice the power? Twice the reliability and longevity? Twice the storage capacity? Twice the graphical ability? Because I bet you paid AT LEAST twice the price.

It's many little things, coupled with just the fact that it works simply.

A ferrari is a premium product, yet a corvette z06 looks better on paper at 1/2 the price. In the market there are premium products, and in my opinion apple has set themselves up in the position as being a premium product.

To name things that I appreciate right off of the top of my head: the charger is magnetically connected, the lid is magnetically latched, the keyboard is backlit, the trackpad is glass, the screen is the thinnest on the market, the computer casings are very thin and sleek, the production of the product is designed to minimize impact on the environment, the hard drive freezes when dropped, and the CD drive is slot loading.

Now I'm not saying NO PC's have these features, but I am saying that PC's at a low end price point typically do not.

If OSX is worth extra money or not, well that's up for debate and very dependent on the user.

Nothing I said was condescending, you simply took it the wrong way. I believe apple markets their product in a premium way. For nearly all products there is at least one company that takes this approach.

[ilovemycb7]

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Accurate statment

And all m3 owners only purchase their cars to show off, right?


Oh wait... maybe some people just buy a product they love using.

[AstroVannin]

And all m3 owners only purchase their cars to show off, right?

Nah ... Im a realist. It's probably only like 85/90%.

Some people just buy a product they love TO BE SEEN using.

I fixed it for you, but yeah, thats sounds about right.

BTW. Im kidding. I really couldnt give a shit. Ive got Toshiba of some kind. Does everything I need. It was $200. It runs the sign software (admitadly a job that would PROBABLY be better done by a MAC), the plotter, and the tuning software for the F/IC. Good enough.

[ilovemycb7]

Nah ... Im a realist. It's probably only like 85/90%.




I fixed it for you, but yeah, thats sounds about right.

BTW. Im kidding. I really couldnt give a shit. Ive got Toshiba of some kind. Does everything I need. It was $200. It runs the sign software (admitadly a job that would PROBABLY be better done by a MAC), the plotter, and the tuning software for the F/IC. Good enough.

Damn, sounds like a good deal to me. Admittedly, I wouldn't be able to afford a new mac if my parents weren't kind enough to get me one for my birthday/graduation. But I probably would have picked up an older one simply because I, personally, love them.

stereotypes go all ways, I understand. I just hate getting something solely to be seen using it, I get stuff that I like and will use. But I do HATE how so many of my friends from HS (nice area) got Macs and don't know shit about them other than browsing facebook. Or the people that get iPhones b/c they look cool. Probably a big reason I no longer have an iPhone is because I think they are overhyped, I loved mine but it's ridiculous the things people say to you.

[bcjammerx]

See what I started HA HA HA

...
To me MAC says overpriced, over rated, a little condescending too...

...
This is what makes Mac users labeled as pricks, because the ONLY way that can be taken is as condescending. So I am curious. What is "premium?"

Do you get twice the memory? Twice the power? Twice the reliability and longevity? Twice the storage capacity? Twice the graphical ability? Because I bet you paid AT LEAST twice the price.

...
Oh wait... maybe some people just buy a product they love using.

That's what I was talking about. Just because you paid more doesn't make it better.

I.E. You can go to the mall and pay $50 for a pair of jeans, I can go to an outlet store and find one of the same quality and style and pay $20...the only real difference...mine won't have the $50 jeans logo and isn't made at their production line. Still the same quality and style...so why is the $50 pair better? JUST because it cost more and has the logo? Same with macs...they are just a computer, same inner workings...just costs more.

I will build my next computer (built my last one)...I will customize it myself to be nearly top of the line. With a laptop and pay almost 1/2 the price of a base model mac, or if I do a desktop I will pay 1/3 the price of a mac.

In truth macs aren't better, they are overpriced...they aren't better with media...they just have a different approach...some like it some don't

On both I will say neither is "better" than the other in terms of usability. Personally I can't stand the way the Macs os is set up...but that doesn't make it a bad product. Some folks just like macs...that's fine...I have no problem with that...you like it, and for you it is better. No one is arguing that point. It's the other thing you said...and...every other mac fan...

...
You pay a premium price for a premium product. Whether or not this product is for you isn't the point. I think your last sentence sums it up pretty well.

Don't tell me the mac is better because you paid more for it...and try to act as if that entails it is better in other ways...it isn't. Especially when my 1/2-1/3 priced custom built computer has more memory, bigger hard drive, faster cpu, better graphics card, AND I can upgrade things as time passes to keep it up to date.

That is the point of discontent...you personally like it...fine...just don't act like something is better simply because you pay more...you don't "pay to play" if you are paying more for nothing extra.

[sandman61377]

The only reason Apple is still around, is because Microsoft got too big for their britches, and made Windows 98, which was so horrendous, that many stopped using PC's altogether. Even in the dedicated graphics arena, video production etc, the PC was tearing Mac up and very quickly replacing it as the standard of the industry. But with Windows 98, they lost it because big production houses can't afford to put up with that kind of shit. Had Windows XP been the next step after 95, or had NT been more widespread, that may not have been the case.

Wait, what? I agree with basically all the other things you've said, but I think you're thinking of the wrong operating system here. Millenium Edition was the cruddy one, not 98. 98 did everything that 95 did and more, did it all better, and was more reliable and stable. ME was to 98 what Vista is to XP, but had an even worse reputation, and was more deserving of it. I still have a pc running 98.