apple exec to microsoft. "stop airing your commercials"

[owequitit]

We all know german cars ARE better!


I think that's a pretty fair analogy though. Although Macs are pretty maintenance free where PCs are maintenance heavy.

If only there was a Honda in the PC world.

The biggest reason PC's are maintenance heavy is due to market share. People like them because they are a large and effective target. Macs haven't been an issue in years because they didn't have enough market share to make a difference. Now that they are climbing back up the marketshare ladder (I think they are approaching 30%, and if not, it is enough that most major retailers are starting to support them again), you are going to see A LOT more interest in Mac's as well. Apple is now recommending anti-virus software, and while a lot of people will tell you that Apples can't be hacked because of the design of the software, they are lying to themselves. Apple has always been propietary and relatively protected, and yet the first virus ever, was created for Apple, because at that time THEY were the big kahuna.

Plus, isn't Apple's recommending anti-virus software in direct conflict with how they were marketing their computers are "security proof?" That is quite the non-chalant back pedal.

Once people figure out how to get into them, and they WILL, you will see Mac's become a lot more maintenance heavy also. Maybe never to the extent of PC's, but it doesn't have to be to that extent to make the end user's life a living hell. While PC's are like fucking in South Africa without a condom and trying not to get AIDS, someday I think MACs will be like doing the same thing in New York. Your odds will be better, but still not good.

Not to mention that this is 2009. You set all of your anti-virus software to run automatically at night, while you are sleeping. You don't have to worry about it, and you don't see the maintenance.

[ilovemycb7]

Although hardware and software are two different things apple has done a good job setting the two up to run together well. Deev pointed that out, and I think it's a very good point. There was a time (recently) when the fastest running Microsoft OS was on a Mac. Don't know if that has changed.

And the OS interface is just a preference thing. I love the way the mac runs, and I'm a sucker for how good it looks. The thing I'll shutdown windows for is 1)changing around their layout completely with vista and 2) all of the stupid "are you sure" boxes in the name of safety. I love checking a preference box and having it work instantly, that in itself took me a month or so to get used to.

[ilovemycb7]

The biggest reason PC's are maintenance heavy is due to market share. People like them because they are a large and effective target. Macs haven't been an issue in years because they didn't have enough market share to make a difference. Now that they are climbing back up the marketshare ladder (I think they are approaching 30%, and if not, it is enough that most major retailers are starting to support them again), you are going to see A LOT more interest in Mac's as well. Apple is now recommending anti-virus software, and while a lot of people will tell you that Apples can't be hacked because of the design of the software, they are lying to themselves. Apple has always been propietary and relatively protected, and yet the first virus ever, was created for Apple, because at that time THEY were the big kahuna.

Plus, isn't Apple's recommending anti-virus software in direct conflict with how they were marketing their computers are "security proof?" That is quite the non-chalant back pedal.

Once people figure out how to get into them, and they WILL, you will see Mac's become a lot more maintenance heavy also. Maybe never to the extent of PC's, but it doesn't have to be to that extent to make the end user's life a living hell. While PC's are like fucking in South Africa without a condom and trying not to get AIDS, someday I think MACs will be like doing the same thing in New York. Your odds will be better, but still not good.

Not to mention that this is 2009. You set all of your anti-virus software to run automatically at night, while you are sleeping. You don't have to worry about it, and you don't see the maintenance.

It's possible that Mac's will get to the level that PC's are at with viruses. We shall see. Your point is valid. However, the Mac OS is programmed more efficiently and does leave less holes open. Plus the Snow Leopard is coming soon and is supposed to be even more compact. Although still vulnerable that OS doesn't open itself up as easily so odds say the virus problem should not be as bad.

In all honesty, the only real way to get a virus on a PC anyways is if you're stupid and click on it and then download it. It's hard to do if you use half your brain.

I remember reading that Mac's were based on a linux architecture. Which is based on unix, which is responsible for MANY servers. Isn't there already a desire to create viruses then? (serious question)


That's what gets me about MS OS's. They are so cumbersome. Streamline them down and I think they would be much improved. Instead they just Add add add instead of re working the code. (although I'm not a programer... this is what some reading and common sense has told me)

[owequitit]

I would like to see Microsoft develop a system in-house that is designed to run Windows as well as Apple's run their OS.

PC components are built by 3rd parties to work with Microsoft's software. Some do it well, others do not. Some conflict with other 3rd party components.

In fact, most "brand name" PCs are just collections of parts from other companies. Open up a Dell, and you'll find... well... probably a lot of no-name crap unless you pay for "upgrades"... But you'll find an Intel processor, an NVidia graphics card (or system integrated into the motherboard), a Seagate hard drive (just throwing names out there...)


Chrome will hurt Microsoft more, I think. The concept is still going to be PC, unless they develop their own hardware as well. Modular units surrounding a single operating system are Microsoft's bread and butter.

That's the thing. As much as I hate microsoft, we still have shit in our airplanes that runs it as a base software. I forget which version of windows it is, but I should know tomorrow, as I get to see that menu in one of our old planes again. Since they weren't dealing with tons of configurations, the software hasn't had many issues. We occasionally have minor issues with the Garmin G1000's in our Cessnas, but it usually goes back to a Garmin programming issue, not a Microsoft one.

But where Google Chrome is going to have an advantage is that it is google. It is as well known as Microsoft, and frankly probably has a better reputation in most minds. If they make it easy to use so it isn't like Linux, then Microsoft is going to have a world of hurt on their plates. If Google executes, and word gets out that it is stable, easy to use etc, then Apple is also going to have a world of hurt because you will get the stability and user friendliness, in a package that is more familiar to people, and a fraction of the price.

[LinX]

for the amount of money a mac cost, I could get a way more powerful PC with any OS of my choice.

[ilovemycb7]

for the amount of money a mac cost, I could get a way more powerful PC with any OS of my choice.

Desktop wise I'll agree.

Laptops are a different story. Depends on your priorities. (size, performance, graphics, screen, etc)

[ilovemycb7]

That's the thing. As much as I hate microsoft, we still have shit in our airplanes that runs it as a base software. I forget which version of windows it is, but I should know tomorrow, as I get to see that menu in one of our old planes again. Since they weren't dealing with tons of configurations, the software hasn't had many issues. We occasionally have minor issues with the Garmin G1000's in our Cessnas, but it usually goes back to a Garmin programming issue, not a Microsoft one.

But where Google Chrome is going to have an advantage is that it is google. It is as well known as Microsoft, and frankly probably has a better reputation in most minds. If they make it easy to use so it isn't like Linux, then Microsoft is going to have a world of hurt on their plates. If Google executes, and word gets out that it is stable, easy to use etc, then Apple is also going to have a world of hurt because you will get the stability and user friendliness, in a package that is more familiar to people, and a fraction of the price.

Based upon Google Chrome browser and the android platform I don't think we will have any serious problems in the near future. As they become developed, then we will see.

[owequitit]

I was not aware that Acer made unibody laptop cases. In fact, I believe that's completely false. Perhaps they make the plastic casings. The unibody Macbook Pros are a pretty different case design, with a solid casing and no inner frame work. It is thinner and lighter this way. And I believe it should be more durable as it's a solid piece of aluminum that is carved into the laptop casing. I'm not an environment guy, but it's also one of the most, if not the most, environmentally friendly designs. Down to the screens used. So that commands a price these days as well.

(plastic macbooks are not durable, imo)

And the thinner and lighter PCs are usually lacking in features or cost as much as the Macs. Just like the "premium" price of a mac the "premium" PC's can cost a lot as well. At least from what I was looking at when I received my macbook pro for college around the december time. (when the unibodies were released)

I hate to break it to you, but Apple is not exempt from the laws of physics. I don't imagine there are too many ways to build LCD's, so I don't see Apple having some huge advantage there, even if they market it up.

Also, while the Macbook Pro cases might be all aluminum, the fact is if a PC company wanted to do that, they would have no problem doing so. One reason Mac's are more "solid" is because they are less serviceable. Apple doesn't want you opening up the case on your own. The iPod is another good example. If I want my battery changed, I have to send it in to them and pay probably at least $150 to have my battery changed. Apple owners expect, and accept this. Contrarily, with my OTHER jukebox, made by a very popular PC company, I moved a little tab, pulled the back cover off, and popped in a new battery. Total cost? Less than $30. Less than $15 if I went with a non-OEM brand battery. Now, I manage to change the batteries in all of my remotes, flashlights, tools, etc. Why should I have to pay half the cost of my iPod to have Apple do what I already know how to do?

In contrast, most PC companies could easily build a super durable aluminum case, but most PC buyers would be outraged that they couldn't get into it, or have someone like Geek Squad get into it easily. They would have a shit fit. It isn't as much about ability as market demand. I haven't really looked around, but I am willing to bet you can find someone that builds a laptop case just as durable and light. They have too many industrial uses not to.

Also, I don't know if you noticed, but Macs have feature loss correlating with lighter weight and smaller size just as much as PC's do. I wouldn't exactly consider a Mac Book air to be "loaded."

[owequitit]

Although hardware and software are two different things apple has done a good job setting the two up to run together well. Deev pointed that out, and I think it's a very good point. There was a time (recently) when the fastest running Microsoft OS was on a Mac. Don't know if that has changed.

And the OS interface is just a preference thing. I love the way the mac runs, and I'm a sucker for how good it looks. The thing I'll shutdown windows for is 1)changing around their layout completely with vista and 2) all of the stupid "are you sure" boxes in the name of safety. I love checking a preference box and having it work instantly, that in itself took me a month or so to get used to.

I turned them off.

And rather than have to worry about memorizing Apple+click or CTRL+click, or some other stupid combination of buttons, I right click and I am done. Works everytime, all the time.

The ONLY feature I have found so far on my sister's Mac that far and away took the cake over a PC was the two finger scrolling on the touchpad. That was an awesome idea. My touchpad has "scroll zones" resembling those of a regular PC, but if it is dark and you touch the wrong part, you end up scrolling when you don't intend to, or not scrolling when you do intend to. With the Mac system, there is no problem with that. The lit keyboard was also nice, although those are available on PC's as well. The one thing I HATE about her Macbook Pro is the blinking sleep indicator that is do bright, I have to cover it or shove it under the bed to sleep. It is retarded for it to be that bright.

[ilovemycb7]

I hate to break it to you, but Apple is not exempt from the laws of physics. I don't imagine there are too many ways to build LCD's, so I don't see Apple having some huge advantage there, even if they market it up.

Also, while the Macbook Pro cases might be all aluminum, the fact is if a PC company wanted to do that, they would have no problem doing so. One reason Mac's are more "solid" is because they are less serviceable. Apple doesn't want you opening up the case on your own. The iPod is another good example. If I want my battery changed, I have to send it in to them and pay probably at least $150 to have my battery changed. Apple owners expect, and accept this. Contrarily, with my OTHER jukebox, made by a very popular PC company, I moved a little tab, pulled the back cover off, and popped in a new battery. Total cost? Less than $30. Less than $15 if I went with a non-OEM brand battery. Now, I manage to change the batteries in all of my remotes, flashlights, tools, etc. Why should I have to pay half the cost of my iPod to have Apple do what I already know how to do?

In contrast, most PC companies could easily build a super durable aluminum case, but most PC buyers would be outraged that they couldn't get into it, or have someone like Geek Squad get into it easily. They would have a shit fit. It isn't as much about ability as market demand. I haven't really looked around, but I am willing to bet you can find someone that builds a laptop case just as durable and light. They have too many industrial uses not to.

Also, I don't know if you noticed, but Macs have feature loss correlating with lighter weight and smaller size just as much as PC's do. I wouldn't exactly consider a Mac Book air to be "loaded."

Macbook Pro's are very light and thin for their performance. I'm not talking about the Air here. Finding a dell or sony that is as thing and light brings you right into the same price range. (again, when I was looking, and had friends buying as well)

And the apple unibody case starts from one block of aluminum, then they carve out the inside and recycle the waste. It's a completely new way of creating a laptop. Where they are typically built around a metal frame and then encased with plastic. I'm not trying to say it's all that great as it is a lot of marketing. However being that it's not assembled, and is one piece, it is durable and doesn't bend, rattle, and squeak with age.

There really isn't a PC in the same league construction wise.

Oh, and the LCDs aren't more durable, I was talking about they way they are made as far as the environmental impacts. Like I said, I'm not a huge environmental guy so I'm not too worried about this and don't know much about it.

Back to the case, the design just allows the laptop to be thinner and lighter while being as strong. This is where the serviceability goes. I'll sacrifice that
for the daily benefits of the case design. Plus, the HD and Battery are both VERY accessible on my macbook so most other parts I'm really not worried about. And if I were I'd buy applecare on ebay for 80 bucks, and have an apple store service my laptop with Amazing customer service for the next 3 years.

[93EXaesthetic]

imho apple is too expensive... i still want a powerbook tho

[ilovemycb7]

I turned them off.

And rather than have to worry about memorizing Apple+click or CTRL+click, or some other stupid combination of buttons, I right click and I am done. Works everytime, all the time.

The ONLY feature I have found so far on my sister's Mac that far and away took the cake over a PC was the two finger scrolling on the touchpad. That was an awesome idea. My touchpad has "scroll zones" resembling those of a regular PC, but if it is dark and you touch the wrong part, you end up scrolling when you don't intend to, or not scrolling when you do intend to. With the Mac system, there is no problem with that. The lit keyboard was also nice, although those are available on PC's as well. The one thing I HATE about her Macbook Pro is the blinking sleep indicator that is do bright, I have to cover it or shove it under the bed to sleep. It is retarded for it to be that bright.

You can turn on two finger tap to right click. I love this feature and actually find it faster than right clicking on my old dell. I love the scrolls, and I like three finger scrolling to go forward and back in safari, in iTunes, or in my photo gallery. The touch pads really are great.

I haven't owned Vista so I didn't realize you could turn those boxes off. I just found them SO annoying when trying to help my friends adjust their displays etc. Honestly, I'm logged in let me do simple stuff.

Sleep light, I love it. But just turn the laptop around if you don't want to look at it? Or turn it off? Understandable complaint but hardly relevant in the large scheme of things.

PS: such a smart guy like yourself already memorized ctrl+click so it really can't be too hard.

[owequitit]

It's possible that Mac's will get to the level that PC's are at with viruses. We shall see. Your point is valid. However, the Mac OS is programmed more efficiently and does leave less holes open. Plus the Snow Leopard is coming soon and is supposed to be even more compact. Although still vulnerable that OS doesn't open itself up as easily so odds say the virus problem should not be as bad.

In all honesty, the only real way to get a virus on a PC anyways is if you're stupid and click on it and then download it. It's hard to do if you use half your brain.

I remember reading that Mac's were based on a linux architecture. Which is based on unix, which is responsible for MANY servers. Isn't there already a desire to create viruses then? (serious question)


That's what gets me about MS OS's. They are so cumbersome. Streamline them down and I think they would be much improved. Instead they just Add add add instead of re working the code. (although I'm not a programer... this is what some reading and common sense has told me)

The main reason MS OS's end up being so cumbersome is because of the shit they have to run. Like I said, you are literally talking MILLIONS of combinations of parts that must be accomodated. And, Microsoft has to try and maximize those combos working together. That in and of itself leads to extra bulk.

Apparently, the other thing with MS, that I didn't know, is that even though MS will tell you that XP and to some extent Vista aren't still based on DOS, a friend of mine who worked for them for 25 years says they more or less are. One thing that has made windows so cumbersome is that they are still sort of using a patchwork of old 80's technology to make this new stuff run. I don't know if that is the case with Windows 7 or not. I will have to ask him. In that regard, MS is somewhat in a catch 22 because they have to try to accomodate as much of the old stuff as possible, in addition to the new stuff, so they are left straddling this divide.

It reminds me of Boeing versus Airbus. Airbus says "oh look how streamlined our airplanes are, they are not varied and cumbersome like Boeing." But that is because they didn't have 40 years worth of airplanes and tens of thousands of airplanes, and hundreds, if not thousands of customers to be compatible with. Boeing does. Plus, a lot of it is fluff, because when you get into a Boeing, you realize that it is setup like most of the airplanes you have already flown, and it is standardized with every other airplane ever made. Whereas with Airbus, they go on and on about ease of use and "commonality" but what they don't tell you is that you have to completely unlearn nearly everything you already learned because not only do they have their own control philosophy, they have their own terms, jargon and methodoloiges that fundamentally go against every other airplane ever made. It reminds me a lot of Apple and their marketing.

[ilovemycb7]

imho apple is too expensive... i still want a powerbook tho

Several years too late bro. When apple switched over to Intel chips they switched over their naming as well. Macbook Pro is the current name. I love mine. I lusted over them for 6 years before finally getting mine for college.

[owequitit]

Macbook Pro's are very light and thin for their performance. I'm not talking about the Air here. Finding a dell or sony that is as thing and light brings you right into the same price range. (again, when I was looking, and had friends buying as well)

And the apple unibody case starts from one block of aluminum, then they carve out the inside and recycle the waste. It's a completely new way of creating a laptop. Where they are typically built around a metal frame and then encased with plastic. I'm not trying to say it's all that great as it is a lot of marketing. However being that it's not assembled, and is one piece, it is durable and doesn't bend, rattle, and squeak with age.

There really isn't a PC in the same league construction wise.

Oh, and the LCDs aren't more durable, I was talking about they way they are made as far as the environmental impacts. Like I said, I'm not a huge environmental guy so I'm not too worried about this and don't know much about it.

Back to the case, the design just allows the laptop to be thinner and lighter while being as strong. This is where the serviceability goes. I'll sacrifice that
for the daily benefits of the case design. Plus, the HD and Battery are both VERY accessible on my macbook so most other parts I'm really not worried about. And if I were I'd buy applecare on ebay for 80 bucks, and have an apple store service my laptop with Amazing customer service for the next 3 years.

Well, my laptop is a 17" screen and I don't know if my sister's is or not. Hers was a little lighter, but not tons. The sleep light lights up the whole room. Turning it around does nothing.

As far as environmental impact on the screen, I don't know. It sounds to me like it is something that Apple markets that nobody else does.