Homeland Security

[Pandemic]

Muslims don't fear us because they're afraid of oppression. There's a cornucopia of reasons.

Look at what these terrorists are doing. They're blowing up their own people 98% of the time.

[owequitit]

Hmmm. Apparently we're the only two keeping this thread alive. Alright then....


This is why I called you a hypocrite. Regardless of whether or not you were holding back, your examples of a better plan of action lacked as much supporting material as mine. Now you've explained yourself after I accused you of doing the same thing you are accusing me of. Fact is, neither one of us knew the other's position and should've explained further. But now we're getting into finger pointing....

Before this recent post, I assumed you were just a pessimistic war hawk, believing that once diplomacy fails (and it would eventually fail), the only other resort is violence, so we should just hurry up and get to it. Thanks for clarifying.

I think your plan sounds like a good one (Yup, we agree on something, Hell froze over). Mchaley had the idea of a military buildup in the Gulf, which would have given the hostage-takers the perception of a power to be feared but not necessarily the invasion of an oppressive force (assuming that American businesses were shut down in Iran immediately after the hostage taking). After all, the crisis was only supposed to last a few hours because Khomeini was apprehensive beforehand about potential action from the American military. This is the part I believe I am still in disagreement with you on. If America wants to be perceived as a powerful force, that's fine, but how do you know how someone fears you? Muslim extremists fear America for potential of oppression, not military power. Just read or listen to their statements. The presence of American businesses in Middle Eastern economies along with the presence of American military bases is all the justification a Muslim terrorist needs to believe he/she needs to defend his/her religion and land. That is why 9/11 happened. I never said we deserved it. WE DIDN'T. I said we were screwed from the beginning because of elitist greed because they must constantly expand to maintain their wealth.



Please do quote my statement. Just for effect, I'll repeat myself one more time: "These systems ATTEMPT to prevent lower levels from rising; I never said it was impossible to be rich."


Both. Don't think I'm just another loser who blames "the system" for all my failures. I take responsibility for both my successes and failures and I do what I gotta do.


I certainly was placing veiled insults, because that was the vibe I was getting from you. It seemed to me that you considered me unintelligent because of my age and, in particular, my disagreement with you on the wealthy. I'm not chasing some silly pipe dream to one day be Superman and save all the world's poor. That's stupid. Don't call me stupid.

So I was "bitching" because I believed I was the victim of an unprovoked attack? Fine, whatever. I'm a sniveling, whining, young punk. You say act like an adult but you throw insults at whomever you feel deserves it? That sounds really mature. As a moderator and "certified adult", you are setting quite the example, aren't you?

If my rhetoric stops here, then so does your hypocrisy. Agreed?

And please tell me if I didn't inflate my post with enough useless information. No need for you to post any dates; you could have made your point with half the information you gave me.

1) Still no substantial arguement. Not surprising though. Are you going to do as requested or not? I have a feeling not. You were called out to put up or shut up. You still haven't put up.

2) Please point out my hypocricy. I have stood by my arguement 100% through this whole thread, and I am still here standing by it.

3) Who owns the companies that you accuse of "increasing their wealth through greed?" Do you understand what a global economy is, and who benefits? Do you understand what a "corporation" is, who owns it and who benefits from it? Do you understand what constitutes the largest % of shareholder value in our economy, and among our companies?

My guess is no.

4) I see quite a number of comments from you that still try to evade and avoid my direct statements and questions. I see a large number of statements that try to divert attention by attacking me, and not answering the question.

Based on my evaluation, YOU made assumptions because I disagreed that it should have been handled differently, and because I am not blindly pro-Democrat, you ASSUMED that I must be a warhawk. So forgive me for assuming you were a baseless liberal based on your remarks. We can play the rhetoric BS all day if you want.

5)

The world's elite control almost every aspect of our lives with elaborate political, social, and economic systems that harvest resources for their consumption, all while maintaining and restricting the growth of the rest of society. So how can I save the world? I'm no Superman, but I choose to use the little bit of political power I have by voting to try and prevent those that cater to the elite from taking political office. Government law is a good way to oppress a society and also a good way to delegate oppression of society to others outside of government. Voting-that's my plan of action. What's yours? Violence, which would only beget more violence?

So you're saying that if I work as hard as I possibly can, I can be the next big billionaire? Nah. There are tons of other factors that control your success in life, and many of these factors are governed by elitist systems. These systems attempt to prevent lower-level class members like me from improving my position in society. The one system I worry most about is globalization. The elite are pooling all low-level workers like us into a global supply, forcing us to compete more fiercely for jobs and consumer goods in a race-to-the-bottom. This way, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Sorry, but IMO both of these statements come across very clearly so though you are not in control of your own destiny, which I don't agree with. I have seen too many people succeed from nothing to even put .05% faith into this crap. The "elitists" as you so like to call them, got there based on decisions they, or their family made. Simple as that. It isn't like the old days when important people were ordained from birth. Also, I find it interesting that it is you who has created the class system you live in by labeling them elitists, when in fact they are regular people. Sorry, but I watch tons of people who fall into this system, when really, all that seperates them from us are choices. Get pissed, disagree whatever. I don't buy anything other than reality.

6) What kind of example are you expecting me to set? My "moderator" status has absolutely nothing to do with anything. My "adult" status that you are so liberally attacking, has everything to do with 5 pages of you making veiled insults to me, making false accusations and failing to compete in the thread on the level that everyone else seems to have no problem achieving. I am speaking to you on your level. Sorry, but that is just the way I operate. If you can't communicate on my level, then I communicate on yours. Oh yeah, and the tons of PM's regarding you getting your feelings hurt because you didn't like that I deleted a message that you posted in a thread that was offensive to a large group of people. I should have just banned your ass, which next time I will be sure to do. You then proceeded to make whiny PM's about how I should ban myself etc, for MY insults and overlook your equally rude insults. So I did. Under the condition that you went with me. That is diplomacy in action.

7)Just as aside about the way I operate. I deal in a business that can cause the loss of life all day, everyday, anywhere anytime. The best guard against that is constant preparation, understanding, insight, knowledge and brutal honesty and risk assesment.

Every decision I make follows the following criteria. Our world would be a better place if more people followed this rule, and all because of one simple aspect.

It is called the "DECIDE" model, and it really is truely amazing once you learn how to employ it effectively.

D - Detect a change
E - Evaluate the need to respond to that change
C - Choose all possible courses of action
I - Identify BEST possible course of action
D - Do
E - Evaluate outcome of decision vs desired outcome

That last little step there? That is where it almost always gets screwed up. It is a brutally honest, no BS assessment if things are working the way you thought they would.

If you expected diplomacy to work, and your no BS assessment and all of your data says it is, then good for you. If it doesn't, then it is time to move to Plan B and alter your course of action, because only failure of your plan can come from pursuing your current course of action.

Unfortunately, we let ego, politics, ethics etc come between us and an effective evaluation of success, if we even assess success at all in the first place. In my line, if you do that, you usually die, so I have a somewhat different perspective than most. I am also quite effective at making a brutally honest, assessment of something regardless of ego, beliefs, hopes etc, because it is what I am trained to do, and what I have to do in order to stay alive in many situations.

Take from it what you will, but you have already demonstrated that this conversation is pretty much over. I gave you a chance to substantiate something, and you haven't. Several times over. You made accusations, not me, so that is something you will just have to adjust to.

Also, you have insinuated that I don't have a clue how the problem works, when you are actually the one that systematically trying to boil it down to several small elements that are but a fraction of the true overall problem.