NO CELL PHONES ON PLANES...congress at...work?

[owequitit]

of course even if they mandated that they upgrade wiring etc etc to make cell phones use in flight safe (I'm unfamiliar with airline tech and what all that would take) it would still be a up to them to do it...and how long did it take american to do that (I flew RIGHT after their issue was finished...on THE planes they were working on ), they can't do it RIGHT away... And how much business did they lose though during that time...obviously no cell phones in flight is a much simpler, faster, cheaper, and safer way...imo

You are really dealing with 2 seperate issues here.

1) The American Airlines issue had to do with a wireloom in the nosegear bay, which was not unsafe. Because the FAA had been caught with its pants down, they suddenly went politico and were trying to assure the public they were doing their job, even though they weren't, which is what caused the whole mess in the first place. To prove it, they got down on American, even though they had already approved most of the wiring.

The issue with the American planes was that if the wires weren't bundled properly, there was a chance they could interfere with the nose gear, get torn up and cause and electrical fire. No such incidents ever occurred to the best of my knowledge, even those planes have been in service since the early 80's and have MILLIONS of flight hours.

2) The second issue is the electronic interference that you speak of.

The fact of the matter is that it is cost prohibitive to "shield" the wiring on an airplane to make it impervious to interference, and then it may still not work. There are sensors all over the plane that receive signals from GPS, ground based navigation stations, and ground based radio stations. If you have a strong enough field around the airplane, you are probably going to encounter interference of some kind regardless, be it garbled radio transmission, erroneous nav signals, or signal bleed through (you get this on cordless phones sometimes, where you can hear other people's conversations).

The military has had airplanes that are so protected they are impervious to EMP's, for quite a number of years now. But they don't fly for profit, it is essential to their mission, and well let's face it, the governments budgets are bigger than most. On an airliner, it would be cost prohibitive.

Also, even if the airlines WANTED to make their airplanes EMP proof, you can't just go and rewire an airplane. Every part on that plane is tested and certified. Certifying 1 part can cost upwards of millions of dollars. You can't just rip the wiring out and start over. Everything would have to be reengineered, recertified, and retested. That just adds more to the cost. For what? Endless irritation and jawjacking? The airlines would much rather you spend that time (and money) on using the inflight entertainment system.

[owequitit]

does anyone see that this is why i have never flown and probably never will

-sean

No, because one really has nothing to do with the other. Make no mistake about it, they WILL find another way in besides airplanes, so by your logic, you will ultimately live in a cave and not do anything because they might get you...

[owequitit]

now i remember that mythbusters episode...while they couldn't test in flight...they tested that pretty extensively on the ground but to no avail in the cabin, using cell phone frequencies...not just ANY transmitter...that's two different things...well not really but frequency wise that could be, but just using cell phone frequencies they didn't get anything

I think they ended up saying better safe then sorry because they got some blips with their makeshift cockpit on top of a car...

owequitit...I'm assuming that since the "test" was done with the plane on the ground and not even moving, that might have had something to do with this...since you've got the know-how, could you elaborate?

The problem is not as pronounced as it was when everything was analog. But it does still exist in the digital age.

Being on the ground has a HUGE part in the problem as almost all issues have occurred during flight.

Some of the most common reported issues are radio interference, which can be benign, or it could be much more serious. The ground based navigation stations have certain levels of guaranteed performance, depending on the individual station. Usually, the stations exceed that guarantee, but if you start throwing in variables like cell phones, radios etc, that operate anywhere near the same frequencies (or in certain bands), you can run into issues. Case in point to illustrate the possible sensitivity: A propeller turning at 1800 RPM can cause fluctuations with this ground based system because one component of the station operates at 1800 RPMs. The propeller isn't even transmitting or receiving anything, and it can cause issues.

Another extreme example of navigation sensitivity is called the ILS (Instrument Landing System) which can guide an airplane to within 100-200' of the ground, and within a few hundred feet of centerline, with ZERO visibility.

Here is an example of what an ILS looks like from the cockpit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYEtqI2hCoc

This particular airplane could have had the ceilings about 100' lower, and visibility about 1/2 of what it was, and they still would have been able to land. Imagine that. Screw it up by a small margin, due to electronic interference, and you could very likely end up dead. No joke.

Here is another one that is at "minimums" (the lowest weather minima that will still allow you to fly the approach).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTgZhpNBZQ4

Ceilings were 200' and visibility was 1/2 mile with blowing snow and fog. Notice how close they were to the runway, before you could make it out. That is why they have all of those lights leading up to a runway, to help pilots gain visual situational awareness on landings like this. Even though they couldn't see the physical runway, they had an idea how it was oriented, and where it was. Imagine screwing that up by a couple hundred feet...how badly did you need to make that cell phone call again? This is really the scenario these devices were outlawed for. This is a critical phase of flight, the equipment is VERY sensitive, and you can't see a damn thing, so you may have no way of knowing if a small error was caused by interference. But you can't explain to people that they can only use them in clear weather, etc etc etc.

The worst cases of interference are when the airplane physically does something it isn't supposed to.

Example, in one of the papers I read, some dude switched his laptop on, and the airplane started making a turn that nobody commanded it to do. Luckily they were in cruise flight in light traffic, because something like that could REALLY be fatal. They had the guy shut his laptop off, and the airplane returned to normal. They had no further issues. Boeing borrowed the laptop, and the airplane, and they flew it on the same route, at the same altitude, with the same laptop in the same seat, and the airplane had no issues whatsoever. That makes them less than 100% sure what caused it. It could have just been a strange combination of fields, or it could have been other circumstances. Do you really want to be around when they find out for sure?

The original law was originated in the 1960's when transistor personal radios became common. Apparently, it was a HUGE issue then. Of course, they were analog, the airplanes were analog, and they all operated over similar frequency spectrums. It has adapted somewhat into the digital age, but the fact of the matter is that even digital transmitters use an analog carrier signal to transport the digital code. There have been cases of interference on digital airplanes, with digital devices since after 2000, so the problem DOES still exist.

[npor]

This is the most stupid thing I've heard...what a waste of our legislation...

btw...cell phones are not dangerous on planes, they no longer interfere with instruments...due to increased shielding...and other stuff...
also a cell phone will not start a fire while you are filling up your gas tank either.


http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8769337
Members of Congress are making the case that cell phone calls on airplanes can be both unsafe and annoying and should be permanently banned.

The House Transportation committee today approved a measure to do that by voice vote, after members traded horror stories about their own worst in-flight experiences.

One lawmaker said his wife sat next to a woman who loudly discussed her sex life on the phone.

Another told of a passenger sitting behind him who got a call just before take-off from either his wife or girlfriend who apparently wanted to end the relationship. He said the man's begging and pleading was terrible to hear and a flight attendant finally had to threaten to have U.S. Marshals put the man off the plane to get him to put the phone away.

The committee's action comes as the European Union is moving in the other direction, allowing airline passengers to talk on their cell phones during flight.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press.

what?

no way...someone overheard someone ELSES CONVERSTAION?!

they should ban cell phones in life then.

or get the fuck over it

[Fake Thug]

what?

no way...someone overheard someone ELSES CONVERSTAION?!

they should ban cell phones in life then.

or get the fuck over it

How about people stay off their phones for a few flight hours in their lives? Or how about people not be obnoxious and yell on the phone about their useless existance ? This talking in flight deal might make sense if most people talking while driving or flying were talking about things that are relevant.

Unless you are in dire need of attention like that so called pregnant man what reason do you have for using a cell phone a quagillion feet above sea level with your neighbor's approxmately the average size d*ck's length away from you?

[501accord]

What?
Phones work on planes?

Mine had no service last time I was on a plane....

X2, phones work on planes??

[Law Grandeur]

I don't know about you, but I don't want to be sitting next to 150 tards chatting on their cell phones when I'm on a plane...

+1


in japan they look down on you for talking on the phone while riding a bus or train

[owequitit]

X2, phones work on planes??

It depends, usually once you get up to a certain altitude, you can't get the ground stations.

[Phempa]

If someone thinks they're SO important that they need a cell phone 24/7, and can't wait 'til they're back on Earth to make that oh-so-necessary phone call, then they need to reevaluate their priorities in life.

Didn't cell phones not exist not too long ago? I wonder how anyone ever lived!!

[NAiL05]

this is similar to places like Japan...I think it is not customary to speak on the cell phone when riding on the train; thats what I observed from watching Top Gear's Nissan GTR episode.

Yea something like that. I noticed that a lot you can sometimes get away with it. Most of the time you see the jap people either playing games, listening to music, or texting on there cells lol.

Anyway I always turn off my phone wheenver on the plane. The only time I turn it on is taxi'ing to the airport. I agree I hate people that want everyone to hear what they have to say. I think its just negligence. But anyway I kinda think its retarded but I think strict rules on electronics should be enforced. I really dont feel like paying 10 bucks at the airport for a 2 min card to use on the phone.

[93twodoorLX]

No, because one really has nothing to do with the other. Make no mistake about it, they WILL find another way in besides airplanes, so by your logic, you will ultimately live in a cave and not do anything because they might get you...

well, just to clarify and not really start anything, i didnt mean that i wont get on a plane because of terrorists,but mainly because of the tight (make that strict) security meausures that would make flying so incredibly stressful and expensive that i would rather find alternative for most (not all) travel destinations, i know you commitment to aeronautics (if thats the right term) and i respect the whole passion thing, but imagin getting cavity searched and interrogated (sp?) everytime you got into your car suspiciously. so without completely taking this thread on a downward sprial of offtopicness.its just trying to clarify my stance on the situation. The whole cellphone thing is a drop in the bucket compared to other precautions made to make a flight safe right? so just be thankful that the legislation doesnt want your plane the be the one in a million plane to go down because you girlfriend called every 3 seconds to say she missed you lol, wouldnt that be a suckass way to go out heh

-sean

[bcjammerx]

Thanks owequitit for the explanation, I was wondering about being on ground and all...didn't seem a very accurate test...which they did point out...but still while mythbusters is fun to watch but not the end all on subjects as pointed out by others.

I know cell phones are already not allowed on planes so this is a little confusing as to why it's being made a law...when it already is.

On annoyances with cells...what annoys me more than overhearing a convo next to me is hearing people who are across the room because they talk exclusively on speaker phone...or when they let their phone ring and ring so they can hear their ringtone ... I hate ringtones that play and play...I want to grab there phone and say "Here...this is how you answer your calls...and this is how you silence the ringer if you don't want to talk to them."

ok I'm off of that now

any way

[owequitit]

well, just to clarify and not really start anything, i didnt mean that i wont get on a plane because of terrorists,but mainly because of the tight (make that strict) security meausures that would make flying so incredibly stressful and expensive that i would rather find alternative for most (not all) travel destinations, i know you commitment to aeronautics (if thats the right term) and i respect the whole passion thing, but imagin getting cavity searched and interrogated (sp?) everytime you got into your car suspiciously. so without completely taking this thread on a downward sprial of offtopicness.its just trying to clarify my stance on the situation. The whole cellphone thing is a drop in the bucket compared to other precautions made to make a flight safe right? so just be thankful that the legislation doesnt want your plane the be the one in a million plane to go down because you girlfriend called every 3 seconds to say she missed you lol, wouldnt that be a suckass way to go out heh

-sean

Yeah, but the security isn't nearly what you portray it as. I have actually flown so I know.

You stand in line, you show ID and a ticket, and you go through a metal detector/scanner. If you aren't hiding anything, you don't get cavity searched. It isn't that much different than pre-911. It is a little stricter, but then it needed to be.

[owequitit]

Thanks owequitit for the explanation, I was wondering about being on ground and all...didn't seem a very accurate test...which they did point out...but still while mythbusters is fun to watch but not the end all on subjects as pointed out by others.

I know cell phones are already not allowed on planes so this is a little confusing as to why it's being made a law...when it already is.

On annoyances with cells...what annoys me more than overhearing a convo next to me is hearing people who are across the room because they talk exclusively on speaker phone...or when they let their phone ring and ring so they can hear their ringtone ... I hate ringtones that play and play...I want to grab there phone and say "Here...this is how you answer your calls...and this is how you silence the ringer if you don't want to talk to them."

ok I'm off of that now


any way

A good way to deal with these people is to walk up to them, and stick your head in like you are listening to their conversation. They get the hint real fast. My dad does that. Once, one lady said something to him, and he looked her in the eye and said, "clearly, you want everyone to listen to your conversation, so that is what I am doing." She turned speaker phone off and ended the call.

[SN2BH22CB7]

If someone thinks they're SO important that they need a cell phone 24/7, and can't wait 'til they're back on Earth to make that oh-so-necessary phone call, then they need to reevaluate their priorities in life.

Didn't cell phones not exist not too long ago? I wonder how anyone ever lived!!

I dont have a cellphone...and I'm just dandy!



less bills...and far less chance of getting a brain tumor ( so I hear )