Toyota Minivans SUCK!

[Losiracer2]

Don't know how people put that many miles on a 5 year old car, LOL. Where the hell are they driving? My 98 Accord didn't even have 100k when I totalled it in July 2007.

yeah my mom does jewelry & antique trade shows while towing a 5x8 trailer w/ it so I guess that really puts a stress on the engine and A/C system or something. She goes all over the place to Cali, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado. Basically everywhere in the Southwest.

[lil_dcb7]

That is why I hate Toyotas for the most part.

ow

[wed3k]

toyotas are a bit difficult to work on but i do like their reliability compared to my dd which breaks down on me.

plus...how often do you recharge an a/c system? if well maintained, should be never.

[Dv8]

That's funny because every time I work on one, even doing simple stuff, I am glad I don't.

Not to mention all of their overbuilding doesn't seem to help long term quality much vs certain other competitors.

The over-building of the chassis is what I love. I get into my Civic, Accord, a Skyline, an S13, an S14, a lot of other cars, they feel like tin cans. I get into my car (which has a stock chassis), my friends Cresta, there is substance there. Im not saying all Toyota models are great, just a few. The over-building makes a much more solid car to drive. Mechanically, a few things suck ass, but I'll deal with those things.

I have all the troublesome parts taken off/out (mainly accessories) of my car so its not too Toyota esque to work on. The only thing that is truly a pain in the ass is working on the fuel system when the intake plenum is on. That and the oil filter is in a stupid place.

If anyone wants a real reason to complain about, go find a twin turbo 300zx to fiddle with.

[Ilikebigbutts]

You are being a vagina about this....wait till you find out it has a leak.

how about having to remove the wiper cowl to access a pcv valve on a caravan?

[Losiracer2]

You are being a vagina about this....wait till you find out it has a leak.

how about having to remove the wiper cowl to access a pcv valve on a caravan?

damn that would suck...yeah i drove a caravan once, my neighbor had one and its weird all minivans are kinda built that way...the engine set back into the car kinda. I can't think of one that has the engine not underneath the cowl.

[owequitit]

The over-building of the chassis is what I love. I get into my Civic, Accord, a Skyline, an S13, an S14, a lot of other cars, they feel like tin cans. I get into my car (which has a stock chassis), my friends Cresta, there is substance there. Im not saying all Toyota models are great, just a few. The over-building makes a much more solid car to drive. Mechanically, a few things suck ass, but I'll deal with those things.

I have all the troublesome parts taken off/out (mainly accessories) of my car so its not too Toyota esque to work on. The only thing that is truly a pain in the ass is working on the fuel system when the intake plenum is on. That and the oil filter is in a stupid place.

If anyone wants a real reason to complain about, go find a twin turbo 300zx to fiddle with.

I don't believe in stripping my cars, hence that makes this an invalid argument. I have also never had a problem with a Honda or Nissan chassis' solidity honestly.

If you have to point to a worse car to try an make your point, then that means yours is pretty bad.

[Fake Thug]

My sis left her 2003 toyota camry with me while she is overseas. 95K on the odo and it still drives new, not a drop of oil and relatively easy to work on. I respectfully disagree with everything said about the "difficulty" or engineering of toyotas. If you are an actual mechanic/technician or just inclined then its really not rocket science. Take it from someone that has worked on nissan V6engines I respectfully disagree. I will challenge this charge that Toyotas dont hold up as good as hondas anyday. I've owned a handful of both.

[owequitit]

My sis left her 2003 toyota camry with me while she is overseas. 95K on the odo and it still drives new, not a drop of oil and relatively easy to work on. I respectfully disagree with everything said about the "difficulty" or engineering of toyotas. If you are an actual mechanic/technician or just inclined then its really not rocket science. Take it from someone that has worked on nissan V6engines I respectfully disagree. I will challenge this charge that Toyotas dont hold up as good as hondas anyday. I've owned a handful of both.

You can do what you want, and you can "respectfully disagree" all you want. I have plenty of mechanical inclination thanks. In fact, I have NEVER had to fix something twice, even when I was learning.

2 very simple cases in point. On the 92-96 Camry, Toyota went out of their way to create an access panel in the passenger fender well to get to the accessory belts. Problem? You can't get to half of the adjusting nuts without using finger gymnastics and a ridiculous array of wrenches. And then once you do get in there, you can't get enough leverage to do what you need to do. To make it worse, you have to manage to cram whatever it is you are going to use to leverage the PS pump back into position, while also having your other hand, wrench etc in there. It is VERY difficult to generate the leverage necessary, while still hanging onto the wrench and then tightening the bolt. Meanwhile, there is PLENTY of open space on the front of the engine, and it could have been placed there, where it would have been a 5 minute job, no do-hokey access panels necessary. Whereas Honda made a 1 peice splash guard that can be a pain to remove, but at least I can see everything and take it off in just a minute or two. Of course, they made it so that you can pretty much do ANY routine maintenance on ANY of their cars with a minimum of fuss. On the PS pumps that require the armstrong method of adjustment, they even were thoughtfull enough to cast in a boss for you to stick a 1/2 breaker bar, so you can easily leverage it. And that is on their low end cars.

Case #2 starter on the older Corrollas. One bolt goes in one way and is really easy to get to, while the other is on the opposite side of the engine, is very difficult to get to, and is just generally more of a PITA than it should be.

Of course, then we could get into the wonderful issues with the awesome fuseable links, hidden fuses and other general underhood electrical stupidities. K.I.S.S. certainly didn't apply there, nor was it limited to 1 model.

As your typical self, you ASSUME that just because I favor Honda's I MUST be a fanboy, when in fact my favor is earned, because like most others in this thread, I have actually owned them and worked on them too. But it seems that Nissan/Toyota fanboys just can't handle the fact that other people have actually used the product and have been less than impressed.

Also, a good friend of mine has a 96 Camry that is completely stock, maintained, and driven slowly. It had a much harder time getting to 200K than my 90 Accord did getting to 230+ with ZERO issues. Hers? Needed new rings twice (a common Toyota failure, as older Toyotas burning oil are like Camaros with saggy doors), and had several other issues. Not to mention the wonderful peeling and flaking paint when she bought it, among other issues. The rubber intake boot rotted right through and fell apart, while my 18 year old 200K+ rubber boot is just like new. Not to mention the sludge issues she has had to deal with for, oh, I don't know, the last 70K or so.

My car? Routine maintenance, 100% functionality right up to the swap, and the engine still looked and ran like new when I pulled it.

As far as your 2003 Camry with 95K miles driving like new, I have driven Hondas with well over 100K and in some cases approaching 200K that STILL drove like new, with no funny noises, squeaks rattles or otherwise. I don't even consider them broken in until 100K, and if I drive one with less than 150K that doesn't drive like new, I consider it a lemon. You must be jaded by Nissan build quality.

You people can think what you want. I don't really give a shit. I have owned them, worked on them, and driven them. I have been less than impressed, and NOTHING will change my unfavorable opinion of them, unless they change their ways. Sorry, just a realistic factual outlook on the cars. Fear not though fanboy accusers, if Honda starts to do the same thing, I WILL drop them like a bad habit, even though you are so smart not to think so.

The ONLY Toyotas I respect, and the only Toyotas I don't mind working on are mostly the older ones that were FR, and didn't have much in the way of electrics or accessories. I also really like most of their trucks, although the oil filter on many of them is quite retarded.

For the record, I NEVER said they weren't reliable. I have known plenty of people with Toyotas that have been just fine in that regard. What I did say is that they suck to work on, and don't have the level of engineering thoughtfullness that Hondas typically do, which they don't. Toyotas are engineered to drive from point A to point B as many times as possible without creating hassles for the owner. Honda manages to accomplish the same exact mission, but they make it more fun to do, and they are more thoughtful about it. Like I said, 99.9% of the people that own Hondas will never appreciate the level of attention they put into small details. And here is the REAL kicker. Hondas are getting EASIER to work on, not harder, like most cars as they get more complex.

[wed3k]

you should see my thread on cylinder leak down on my DD motor. i praise honda for that.

[kouzie]

I'm sure everyone here has something bad to said about other make and model

[Fake Thug]

Just a realistic factual outlook on cars, but nothing will change your unfavorable opinion of Yotas? Factual outlook?

My experience is a close 180* of yours. I have never owned or knew anyone with a 100% functional cb7 at any given time in these later years unless they are downright anal. Oil burning? yes they do but hondas have this issue too. In my experience honda's/toyota's burn oil, nissans leak it. its all about perspetive then. The way you feel about yota mirrors the feelings/opinions I have towards most Vdubs.

You have a friend with a 96 camry that was ringed twice, I have a friend at work with a 92 prism with the original plug wires, 292k and does not burn a drop of oil. Only issue is a sagging headliner and inop radiator fan. I think K.I.S.S. applied to my 86 nova with 256K getting roughly 28MPG. It did smoke though. I dont believe hondas are getting easier to work on either. If you are refering to just parts changing then I guess so.

[tomas]

Just a realistic factual outlook on cars, but nothing will change your unfavorable opinion of Yotas? Factual outlook?

My experience is a close 180* of yours. I have never owned or knew anyone with a 100% functional cb7 at any given time in these later years unless they are downright anal. Oil burning? yes they do but hondas have this issue too. In my experience honda's/toyota's burn oil, nissans leak it. its all about perspetive then. The way you feel about yota mirrors the feelings/opinions I have towards most Vdubs.

You have a friend with a 96 camry that was ringed twice, I have a friend at work with a 92 prism with the original plug wires, 292k and does not burn a drop of oil. Only issue is a sagging headliner and inop radiator fan. I think K.I.S.S. applied to my 86 nova with 256K getting roughly 28MPG. It did smoke though. I dont believe hondas are getting easier to work on either. If you are refering to just parts changing then I guess so.

Wow, I agree with you man!!







And why is a "Moderator" saying all this?
We all know this is a Honda forums but should the guy be more kind like Deev

You can do what you want, and you can "respectfully disagree" all you want. I have plenty of mechanical inclination thanks. In fact, I have NEVER had to fix something twice, even when I was learning.

2 very simple cases in point. On the 92-96 Camry, Toyota went out of their way to create an access panel in the passenger fender well to get to the accessory belts. Problem? You can't get to half of the adjusting nuts without using finger gymnastics and a ridiculous array of wrenches. And then once you do get in there, you can't get enough leverage to do what you need to do. To make it worse, you have to manage to cram whatever it is you are going to use to leverage the PS pump back into position, while also having your other hand, wrench etc in there. It is VERY difficult to generate the leverage necessary, while still hanging onto the wrench and then tightening the bolt. Meanwhile, there is PLENTY of open space on the front of the engine, and it could have been placed there, where it would have been a 5 minute job, no do-hokey access panels necessary. Whereas Honda made a 1 peice splash guard that can be a pain to remove, but at least I can see everything and take it off in just a minute or two. Of course, they made it so that you can pretty much do ANY routine maintenance on ANY of their cars with a minimum of fuss. On the PS pumps that require the armstrong method of adjustment, they even were thoughtfull enough to cast in a boss for you to stick a 1/2 breaker bar, so you can easily leverage it. And that is on their low end cars.

Case #2 starter on the older Corrollas. One bolt goes in one way and is really easy to get to, while the other is on the opposite side of the engine, is very difficult to get to, and is just generally more of a PITA than it should be.

Of course, then we could get into the wonderful issues with the awesome fuseable links, hidden fuses and other general underhood electrical stupidities. K.I.S.S. certainly didn't apply there, nor was it limited to 1 model.

As your typical self, you ASSUME that just because I favor Honda's I MUST be a fanboy, when in fact my favor is earned, because like most others in this thread, I have actually owned them and worked on them too. But it seems that Nissan/Toyota fanboys just can't handle the fact that other people have actually used the product and have been less than impressed.

Also, a good friend of mine has a 96 Camry that is completely stock, maintained, and driven slowly. It had a much harder time getting to 200K than my 90 Accord did getting to 230+ with ZERO issues. Hers? Needed new rings twice (a common Toyota failure, as older Toyotas burning oil are like Camaros with saggy doors), and had several other issues. Not to mention the wonderful peeling and flaking paint when she bought it, among other issues. The rubber intake boot rotted right through and fell apart, while my 18 year old 200K+ rubber boot is just like new. Not to mention the sludge issues she has had to deal with for, oh, I don't know, the last 70K or so.

My car? Routine maintenance, 100% functionality right up to the swap, and the engine still looked and ran like new when I pulled it.

As far as your 2003 Camry with 95K miles driving like new, I have driven Hondas with well over 100K and in some cases approaching 200K that STILL drove like new, with no funny noises, squeaks rattles or otherwise. I don't even consider them broken in until 100K, and if I drive one with less than 150K that doesn't drive like new, I consider it a lemon. You must be jaded by Nissan build quality.

You people can think what you want. I don't really give a shit. I have owned them, worked on them, and driven them. I have been less than impressed, and NOTHING will change my unfavorable opinion of them, unless they change their ways. Sorry, just a realistic factual outlook on the cars. Fear not though fanboy accusers, if Honda starts to do the same thing, I WILL drop them like a bad habit, even though you are so smart not to think so.

The ONLY Toyotas I respect, and the only Toyotas I don't mind working on are mostly the older ones that were FR, and didn't have much in the way of electrics or accessories. I also really like most of their trucks, although the oil filter on many of them is quite retarded.

For the record, I NEVER said they weren't reliable. I have known plenty of people with Toyotas that have been just fine in that regard. What I did say is that they suck to work on, and don't have the level of engineering thoughtfullness that Hondas typically do, which they don't. Toyotas are engineered to drive from point A to point B as many times as possible without creating hassles for the owner. Honda manages to accomplish the same exact mission, but they make it more fun to do, and they are more thoughtful about it. Like I said, 99.9% of the people that own Hondas will never appreciate the level of attention they put into small details. And here is the REAL kicker. Hondas are getting EASIER to work on, not harder, like most cars as they get more complex.

[Losiracer2]

well another issues we got to deal w/ is a CEL that triggered the VSC light and TRAC OFF light at the same time. So all 3 of these lights came on at once. The car does throw out a breif, like 5-10 sec puff of smoke when its started for the first time that day.

I went to A.Z. and scanned the code. It says its either the O2 sensor in bank one, or the cat. conv. is bad. So what I'm wondering is which should i do first? or rather if someone knows what it could be between those two, then DO kindly let me know. The O2 sensor is about 200 dollars and the Cat is about 350. Since this is my mom's van I really don't wanna put cheap aftermarket crap in there.

Its kinda funny that the O2 or cat. affect the VSC and traction control

[owequitit]

Wow, I agree with you man!!







And why is a "Moderator" saying all this?
We all know this is a Honda forums but should the guy be more kind like Deev

Oh, look another apparent fanboy that doesn't like the fact that I can actually back up my opinions with actual experience. Sorry dude.

Why should I not be allowed to say it? Just because I am a "moderator" means that I can't have an opinion? I had opinions on Toyotas long before I was ever a "moderator" and I am not about to drop them now.

FYI, I was like this LONG before I was a moderator on this site, and Deev ASKED me to be one, not the other way around. How boring would life be if we were all the same?

Besides, I didn't break any of the rules, I simply stated my OPINION based on EXPERIENCE unlike some of the other people who are constantly accusing me of being a "fanboy." And I guess I am. I am a fanboy of Honda, BMW, Ferrari, Acura, Lotus, Mazda, Alfa Romeo, DATSUN (not Nissan), and many old Fords and Chevy's. As long as the above named companies continue to satisfy me (with the obvious exception of those that are no longer making such product) then I will CONTINUE to be a "fanboy." I will also continue to base it on experience, and I will continue to have opinions.