The American Dream

[mozzandherb]

Just wondering what everyone's opinion is here about the traditional "American Dream"? You know acquiring wealth, status and prestige. I'm a 3rd year Crim student and we are talking about the "Strain Theory" and how the American Dream can cause deviance. Cultural goals and the individualized means of achieving those goals. Some (if not most) people do conform to the social structure and will find ways to succeed in legitimate ways, however, there are the innovators who also find illegal ways to achieve those goals.
So I am just curious to what others think about this theory? I think it is a very good theory in explaining crime. It moves away from the biologial aspect of deviance and places more emphasis on societal structures that either help, or create this type of behaviour. "Anomie" meaning "normlessness" is also another term that we are talking about, which comes from Emile Durkheim. It is someone without values and someone who is then influenced by other's (criminals) which in turn lead them into a life of crime.
Anyway, just wanted some opinions as I am doing a research project about these issues. And I am using the movies (teachers request) "American Gangster" and "Scarface" as two examples of these two theories.

[MikeW]

Good thread.

IMO, the "american dream" used to be, and still might be for some, a nice job, a spouse, kids and a house. (nice rhyme )

I think for most, "growing up, getting a well paying job/going to college, getting married, getting a home and having kids" was usually what we were "taught" or what we thought was supposed to happen.

Hence, why little kids always play house. The dad came home from work to his wife and kids.

I think the overall idea of "growing up" and bettering yourself has and will always stay the same. Some ppl wanna get married, some wanna have kids, some ppl just wanna focus on themselves and deal with marriage/kids later.

Either way, theyre taking their situation from dependent child to independent adult.

Me and my gf both worked at McDonalds make $8/hr and we had a fairly nice 2bdrm apt, with, what i considered, pretty nice things for ppl of our age and being out on our own for the first time. And i thought we were doing pretty good. Not the "american dream" by any means, but i thought it was pretty cool.

Id like to get married, have a house and maybe have kids one day, but i dont think im gonna go out of my way to make sure it happens. If it doesnt, oh well. Ill live my life as best i can, and whatever happens, happens.

Now my brother, he's one of the ppl i know who's bent on doing whatever it takes to come out on top. He's not going to school to be a lawyer or doctor, but in his mind, and this may in fact be true in general, going to college and getting a degree is gonna mean he'll be guaranteed a nice life with money and nice things.

Ive seen both sides but ive seen flipped versions of both.

My aunt went to college and she only makes $9/hr, has a house, CC's and 3 kids.

My mom, who never went to college, has had several jobs making $12+/hr with 2 kids.



It all depends on the individual and what their views are. Some ppl believe in acheiving the american dream, some dont.

Some ppl will take the easy road, others will resort to crime.

[NAiL05]

My american dream is sitting outside naked eating a double cheeseburger from Mcdonalds. Oh yes.

[BootlegCB7]

My American dream...make decent living off my hobbies.

[NorcoAccord]

My dream is to have goals, since I got out of high school i had a goal to get an AA in computers now they just to seem to bore me, cars are getting that way to, seems like a lot of things bore me, right now all that I am really interested in is going to work to see what happens. Its like crack no two days are the same. I enjoy meeting new people, and bsing with them, but yet I hate people to.

[Leung]

i dreamt of my Accord driving on the road. oh that's my short term goal.

my long time goal is, moving out of my mother's house and have a nice paying job without the hassle.

[owequitit]

The American Dream isn't to "make money" and "end up on top."

The American Dream in its original intention was to allow people enough freedom to succeed in whatever it was that made them happy. This is in direct contrast to say communism where you are born and basically TOLD where you will exist. The interpretation over time has lead to the "push to advance." I believe it is mostly driven by our primal desire to have what we don't have. Have's vs have not's if you will.

Think about those that are generally in the spotlight of admiration. A) Rich people. We tend to envy them because we can't have what they have. They may not be happy, and they may have worked their tail off for it, but we don't see that. We only see what they have. This motivates some, and demotivates others. B) Celebrities. Not only do they appear to posses the money part of the equation, but they are also part of a large exclusive group of people, and have social acceptance on a level that puts them above most regular people in terms of perceived status. It doesn't matter how stupid, messed up, or useless as human beings they really are, they are still put up onto a pedestal of admiration.

The great thing about our freedoms is that we merely have to decide what we want to do, and there is no social structure standing in our way that won't allow us to do it. We just have to willing to get up in the morning to get it. It was designed to be highly individual on purpose. Nobody has the ability to determine what the individual wants, more than individual does, and thus no one should make choices for the individual.

As far as the "pressure" of our society to succeed being responsible or contributing to the spread of crime, I don't buy that. There is ALWAYS a statistical % of people that do not fit social norms. We used to lock them in padded rooms, but then that became not PC, so now we just let the wander around in public and stare at them.

What I DO think DOES contribute to the increase in crime in our society is multifold.

1) We began conditioning people to not have their psyche hurt, so as not to "damage" them. This leads to a huge disconnect between them and the real world. Since they are used to getting whatever they want, they honestly believe they are ENTITLED to it. This phenomenon started in the 1970's with Dr. Spack (sp?), and lo and behold, look at the statistical trends.

2) We as a society have begun to try to promote behavior A by rewarding behavior B, because we REALLY don't want to look bad dealing with behavior A. Not only is this stupid at the most fundamental level, but it is completely ineffective, and study after study after study has shown that.

3) Since the modern interpretation of societal progress in the US is marked by "things" and "money", a lot of people push harder and harder for the things they THINK will impress their peers, and thus lead to happiness. Every human has a social need to be accepted at some level. The more of a follower, or the more insecure they are, the more they will try to find social acceptance wherever they can get it. This probably leads to a lot of people who make choices for the wrong reason, i.e. choosing a career path not because it fullfills them, but because they can be more "successful", or choosing drugs so they can fit in rather than just because they want to do them. Even if you achieve this, it is still a hollow victory, and you still have needs that have to be filled on Maslow's heirarchy (which really may NOT apply 100%, but does have some validity).

People who can not find a fundamental social or personal satisfaction are also more likely to deviate from the structured norm.

4) And then there are people who are just plain crazy.

[deevergote]

The American Dream has always been the right, and the ability, to pursue happiness without limit. To be able to head West, make your fortune by panning for gold, and raise yourself a nice farm to support your family. To be able to do that without any tyrannical ruler dictating your every move.

In modern times, especially with the romanticized depictions of "rags to riches" types like John Rockefeller, or even the criminal variety of such, Al Capone, we have seen the acquisition of vast wealth and influence become the concrete materialization of the "American Dream" (yes, that is one crazy run-on sentence... )

The humdrum everyday "American Dream" of a white picket fence, 2.5 children, and a stable job in suburbia is often overshadowed by the "Big Money" dreams. Everyone wants to be Bill Gates. Everyone wants to be Paris Hilton. That is what the media has embraced.


If you want to look at the increase in crime based on the American Dream, don't base it on the dream itself... base it on the depiction of the dream. The media is the strongest influence here (and your two movie examples support this claim very well). Movies like those you listed, television like "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" as well as all the knockoff VH1 shows, music... especially mainstream rap/hip-hop like Jay Z's stuff, print media such as the various tabloids, and even mainstream advertising (education is for money, cars are for status, etc...) all contributes to this new material "American Dream"

The American Dream is no longer "work hard, be happy"... it's "get rich or die tryin'". I say the media's influence on today's 'I want it now' culture is the biggest factor. People are lazy. People don't want to work. People want the dream without doing what it takes to get there.

Thanks to the media, I have to agree with Eddie Izzard... "The American Dream is to get all the money in the world, stick it in your ears, and go PPPPGHHHHHSHHHHFHHFHFHF!"

[lokuputha]

The American Dream has always been the right, and the ability, to pursue happiness without limit. To be able to head West, make your fortune by panning for gold, and raise yourself a nice farm to support your family. To be able to do that without any tyrannical ruler dictating your every move.

In modern times, especially with the romanticized depictions of "rags to riches" types like John Rockefeller, or even the criminal variety of such, Al Capone, we have seen the acquisition of vast wealth and influence become the concrete materialization of the "American Dream" (yes, that is one crazy run-on sentence... )

The humdrum everyday "American Dream" of a white picket fence, 2.5 children, and a stable job in suburbia is often overshadowed by the "Big Money" dreams. Everyone wants to be Bill Gates. Everyone wants to be Paris Hilton. That is what the media has embraced.


If you want to look at the increase in crime based on the American Dream, don't base it on the dream itself... base it on the depiction of the dream. The media is the strongest influence here (and your two movie examples support this claim very well). Movies like those you listed, television like "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" as well as all the knockoff VH1 shows, music... especially mainstream rap/hip-hop like Jay Z's stuff, print media such as the various tabloids, and even mainstream advertising (education is for money, cars are for status, etc...) all contributes to this new material "American Dream"

The American Dream is no longer "work hard, be happy"... it's "get rich or die tryin'". I say the media's influence on today's 'I want it now' culture is the biggest factor. People are lazy. People don't want to work. People want the dream without doing what it takes to get there.

Thanks to the media, I have to agree with Eddie Izzard... "The American Dream is to get all the money in the world, stick it in your ears, and go PPPPGHHHHHSHHHHFHHFHFHF!"

something like what I was going to say.

[MikeW]

The American Dream is no longer "work hard, be happy"... it's "get rich or die tryin'". I say the media's influence on today's 'I want it now' culture is the biggest factor. People are lazy. People don't want to work. People want the dream without doing what it takes to get there.

Thanks to the media, I have to agree with Eddie Izzard... "The American Dream is to get all the money in the world, stick it in your ears, and go PPPPGHHHHHSHHHHFHHFHFHF!"

1) Good call on the Eddie Izzard

2) Sadly, i have to agree. In the days of microwaves, internets, and drive-thru's, ppl are getting used to things coming to them fairly quickly. Even money. Look at what casino's and lotteries have done. "Get rich quick!" Only problem is its just gonna cost you a shot-ton of money due to high chances of actually winning...

To a certain agree though, ive had this fantasy myself...one of having loads and loads of money. Enough to buy a huge house, phat rides and have all the niceties. Then its back to reality...

Id like to have the "white-picket fince, 2.5 kids, house, wife, 9-5 job at the office" but it just doesnt suit me...

As i mentioned before, i was working at McDonalds and i was happy with what i had accomplished then. Maybe its just how i was raised, but we always rented, so i have no problem doing that for the first 10 years of my life. Sure id like to have something i can call my own, one day, but i plan on that being well into my 30s.

Thats the one thing i never understood...working your ass off for 25+ years only to be able to enjoy it for about that...

Some ppl just have different views i guess.

I think like Scott said, no matter what our views are, the instinct is still basically the same. "To obtain the un-obtainable". As i mentioned earlier, some are willing to commit crime, work 80 hours/wk or wipe other ppl's asses....all in the name of getting that top seat.

Im not sure where i fit in there. Maybe its just because im an extreme pesimist or maybe im happy with lower standards, but i dont believe in commiting crime or working myself to the bone to acheive it. Work hard, yes. Work to death, no.

[mayberry]

Deev, with the stab against Jay-Z... I gotta back him on this subject. The american dream in an indaviduals perception of what he or she wants. Not a generalized statement of one nation. It's easy to confuse the two. With that beng said, how one chooses to get there, is up to them. Whether its 8 years in harvard or 25 to life....

The subject at hand is simple.. Whats YOUR american dream. You may as well be tipper gore pulling in mainstream media to a question like this.

As far as media embrassing celebs, thats because the nation we live in is so dumbed down w/ no self awareness thats what they flock to, celebrities flaunting mommy and daddys riches.

Now I'm gonna qoute Jay-Z... infact from a song call ignorant shit off his american gangster album

"I missed the part when it stopped bein 'bout Imus
What do my lyrics got to do with this shit!
"Scarface" the movie did more than Scarface the rapper to me
So that ain't to blame for all the shit that's happened to me
Are you sayin what I'm spittin
Is worse than these celebrataunts showin they kittin, you kiddin!
Let's stop the bullshittin
'Til we all without sin, let's quit the pulpittin
"Scarface" the movie did more than Scarface the rapper to me
So that ain't to blame for all the shit that's happened to me
Now stop the bullshittin"

If you're too caught up in your own self, to realize why YOU need... YOUR american dream. You're just a slave. Be happy, its America, theres always room for self improvement. It just takes hard work. Material possessions make me happy. I like when my cars shiney. I like having 300 dollar bar tabs on saturday night. I like buying girls i don't know shots of w/e they want cause they smile at me. I'm happy being me. Thats my american dream. Being ok in my own skin. Na mean?

[deevergote]

My JayZ comment was only because he has a lot of music about material and financial success. He's a businessman. To me, he's the biggest (and most talented) example of post-gangsta rap... where a classy "businessman" persona is given. Of course, with that comes fancy suits, expensive cigars, Bentleys, and "Big Pimpin... spendin G's..."

THAT is the popular media image of the American Dream.

You're right, Eric... in the fact that the American Dream is the dream of the individual.. and what makes it American is that it's possible... that we're free to achieve whatever we want... be it 8 years of Harvard or 25 to life.

However, to go with Dan's initial concept of how the American Dream influences crime... it would have to be the mass media's portrayal of it, rather than the actual individual dream, that influences crime. The media glorifies the ends, without focusing on the means. The media glorifies instant gratification. When it comes to "success", instant gratification is difficult without uncommon luck, or illegal activity.

[mayberry]

However, to go with Dan's initial concept of how the American Dream influences crime... it would have to be the mass media's portrayal of it, rather than the actual individual dream, that influences crime. The media glorifies the ends, without focusing on the means. The media glorifies instant gratification. When it comes to "success", instant gratification is difficult without uncommon luck, or illegal activity.

I've typed four different responses to you. None of which I was happy with. So I'll leave it at this. You're right. I do agree with you, BUT, stupid people are the ones that try and get rich quick. Even the smart drug dealers/embezzlers/oil tycoons/ that end up rich, worked to get where they are. Nothing is handed to anyone(unless you're 2nd genreation wealth, and if so, fuck you) in business or on the street.

On my defense, theres no room in the land of the rich for simple minds... just keep that in the back of your head. From wall street to washington, everyday is a hustle.

[MikeW]

"Ima hustla baby...."



For me, everyday is a hassle, not a hustle

Diddy's another "rag-to-riches" story. Went from(where ever he's from) to being a rapper to being the top of Bad Boy Records....

[turbomaxx]

I just want to own a body shop that does repairs and customizations.

I don't need a house, I'll sleep in the parts room upstairs!

That and my cars/trucks and a good female.