idling on three cylinders?

[westsideaccord]

thurs car was fine. Then I got the bright Idea of taken my 4-2-1 cast header and downpipe off the a6 and put it on my a1. the a6 downpipe has o2 at its rear not like my stock mani, right there! Anyway the one that was in there I found to be faulty, had cel in car it came from, and so i hooked it up in mine to find this. Next day I swap my mani's o2 for the other and I lengthen that harness! Turns out the plug from the engine harness of my a1 is Identical to the plug coming from the old o2 from the a6 header (with the exception of the wires colours)! So I connect it raw, cel goes away but I have idle surge still! again it was fine on thurs before the swap! So i go 500km and spend the night hangin wit my friend, and wake up the next morn to tackle this task. I notice a leak, fuel, from the #4 cyl injector so I buy another, and replace it leak is now gone but car still surgeing and is idleing on only three cyl! I pull the fourth wire it which made no diff(no change in engine at all!) has spark and the plug is good! It runs...ok movin except the surge, I have tried the fiv/vacuums are good, swapped the ecu! I am lost need help bad! have Reset the ecu! Map? anybody have any idea? thanks!

[F22-GURU]

Remove the Wire from #4 Injector, look inside the Connector and see if the terminals have bent over or backed out of the connector. If so repair the terminals and retry.
To find out if it is a crook injector, swap it out with No 1, 2 or 3 and see if the misfire changes cylinders.

[bobertjuan]

also, kinda of an obvious thing.. not tryin to insult you, but sometimes it slips the mind. check for the power and ground to the injector. check both while the car is running, pulsing ground and constant power. are you get a cel?

[F22-GURU]

also, kinda of an obvious thing.. not tryin to insult you, but sometimes it slips the mind. check for the power and ground to the injector. check both while the car is running, pulsing ground and constant power. are you get a cel?

I understand where you are coming from Bob, but if all's OK from the ECU F/INJ drivers you will still get Power and Ground at the F/INJ Harness Connector Terminals. It's the Physical Contact between the Harness Connector Terminals and the F/INJ Terminals that will determine if the F/INJ is meant to be Injecting fuel. No fuel from F/INJ to that cylinder = No Combustion in that cylinder, hence the misfire.
You have to be careful when pulse testing F/INJ's while the engine is running. The opening of a F/INJ independant of the ECU operation can be detrimental to the Operation of the Engine. There are the possibilities of Fuel Hydraulic Lock, Spark Plug, O2 Sensor or Cat Convertor contamination.

[westsideaccord]

alright, there is fuel pressure in the rail, no cel's, pulled the #1,2&3 plug wires and it runs super rough then. The terminals are fine, as I stated in my first post thurs. it was perfect! Also if you read my first post you would see that I had already swapped in another good injector! So im left to believe its something ecu related! Spark plugs are fine, is getting spark! Could it be something with the o2 sensor? I did lengthen the wires so it would reach the back of the downpipe!? Also does anybody know which wire does what from the a1 engine harness? The o2 has white, green, two blacks(heaters) If I knew what their counterparts were i would factor that out! Ps at idle it kinda seems like its still getting some fuel, cause when I giver it smoothes out a lot! Im still saying could it be map or egr or o2(was and still should be workin)

[F22-GURU]

.. pulled the #1,2&3 plug wires and it runs super rough then. The terminals are fine, as I stated in my first post thurs. it was perfect! Also if you read my first post you would see that I had already swapped in another good injector! .. Ps at idle it kinda seems like its still getting some fuel, cause when I giver it smoothes out a lot! Im still saying could it be map or egr or o2(was and still should be workin)

Now when you say you pulled the #1,2 & 3 Plug Wires, do you mean the Spark Plug Wires or Fuel Injector Wires?
Check for Intake Manifold Vacuum Leaks.
Check for Exhaust Leaks Pre-O2 Sensor.

[HondaFan81]

alright, there is fuel pressure in the rail, no cel's, pulled the #1,2&3 plug wires and it runs super rough then. The terminals are fine, as I stated in my first post thurs. it was perfect! Also if you read my first post you would see that I had already swapped in another good injector! So im left to believe its something ecu related! Spark plugs are fine, is getting spark! Could it be something with the o2 sensor? I did lengthen the wires so it would reach the back of the downpipe!? Also does anybody know which wire does what from the a1 engine harness? The o2 has white, green, two blacks(heaters) If I knew what their counterparts were i would factor that out! Ps at idle it kinda seems like its still getting some fuel, cause when I giver it smoothes out a lot! Im still saying could it be map or egr or o2(was and still should be workin)

I read everything in this thread and from what you have previously stated your # 4 cylinder is dead (no or minimal compression). This is your problem. Now, what is causing this is the answer you seek.

Since your spark plugs are good, you get spark to all cylinders, you get fuel pressure to the fuel rail, have a good injector in #4 cylinder...

1) Verify your # 4 injector is working from the electro-mechanical aspect of it (I assume it is, but make SURE)

2) If your # 4 injector works, then I believe you have a burnt valve or ring blow-by and are not getting proper compression in # 4 cylinder. What you do then is up to you. You will not get a CEL for this, from my experience. I have an Accord that the #3 cylinder is dead and I will find out when I remove that engine and install the built engine. Until then, I'll be running on 3 cylinders as it still starts & runs, it just doesn't have any ballz. Good thing I have another Accord to drive.

[westsideaccord]

To f22-guru you say it could be caused by leaky mani before o2? I do have a small leak there would that cause the o2 to get an improper reading?
Yeah I pulled all spark plug wires but the only cyl that doesnt do anything is 4! So and also the engine has 6000 on a fresh rebuild so, I will test compression again, but due to the car still having power when I "giver" it says to me electrical/sensor...so at idle or low speed the o2 isnt getting all the exhaust by it but at high speed it sees more and werks accordingly!? Huh! Thanks! also i had said that mine doesnt idle fine, surges when warm and sputters at 1.5-2k before that! Ill try sealing my exhaust leek for now! I am goin to turbo soon trial #3 with a nice fmic! Dsm setup, and so for that ill need a compression test anyway! Peace

[F22-GURU]

To f22-guru you say it could be caused by leaky mani before o2? I do have a small leak there would that cause the o2 to get an improper reading?

Yes it will. If you have an Exhaust leak Pre-O2 Sensor then the O2 Sensor will be getting a False Reading of How Much Oxygen is actually left after Combustion.
If it thinks there is more oxygen than there actually is then it will re-trim the ECU Fuel Cells accordingly. The O2 will think it's running excessively lean and add fuel at the next duty cycle. The Extra fuel added to the actual amount of intake air will affect the overall performance.

Yeah I pulled all spark plug wires but the only cyl that doesnt do anything is 4! So and also the engine has 6000 on a fresh rebuild so, I will test compression again, but due to the car still having power when I "giver" it says to me electrical/sensor...so at idle or low speed the o2 isnt getting all the exhaust by it but at high speed it sees more and werks accordingly!? Huh! Thanks! also i had said that mine doesnt idle fine, surges when warm and sputters at 1.5-2k before that!

OK now, can you remove the wire connectors from the F/INJ's. Look inside the wire connector to see if the terminals are damaged or backed out of the connector. The ECU may be triggering the F/INJ correctly but if the terminals aren't making contact then the F/INJ cannot inject fuel. The Spark Plug will still be firing but if there is no fuel to ignite it will cause a lean misfire, which can lead to detrimental damage to the engine. As with the previous answer with the O2 Sensor/Exhaust Leak you could see how this problem would also affect or exacerbate the ECU fuel trimming.
If the F/INJ was working OK and the Spark Plug was receiving the correct voltage but not firing the opposite would occur - (and NO it would not even itself out ).
A bad ground to the Cylinder Head could also cause havoc as that is where the Spark Plugs get their Grounding.
So now we can see how important correct grounding of the Engine components is critical to the proper running of the engine overall.

Also if you have a Vacuum Leak at the Intake Manifold it too will cause a Lean Misfire at Idle and just above idle. An incorrect operating EGR can do the same thing. In the end it can all be a vicious circle.
If all these problems are present at the same time then even after fixing one you could still have a misfire. This is where you start scratching your head.

If you are sealing up your exhaust with silicone, remove the O2 Sensor until the silicone cures as the fumes can contaminate the O2 Sensor.

To check for Vacuum Leaks it's best to get a spray bottle with water in it and spray around the Intake Manifold, Gaskets, F/INJ's and T/Body. If the engine stumbles at that spot then you have pinpointed the leak. Others suggest the use of Propane or Carb Cleaners etc, but they are highly flammable and the risk of a stray spark could be a costly, if not dangerous, exercise.
Cheer
Geoff

[accordmaniac]

Top.. plug A6

Heater (-) (+) Between 10~40 ohm
Sensor (-) (+) Less than 0.1v

Bottom plug A1

Heater (-) (+) Between 10~40 ohm
Sensor (-) (+) Less than 0.1v

[westsideaccord]

Well Im off to swap back to my stock mani, wish me luck! It isnt that easy of a job, not really that hard either! Sigh, I wish I had a garage lol!

[westsideaccord]

I have fixede the problem! It was none of the above! It just so happens that the gasket where the intake meets the head, had blew out a piece right above/behind that injector, thus the surge, and the reason it was fine on throttle etc. Thankfully my dad and I sprayed some starter fluid around the intake gasket areas to find the hole then we see it! I also had the one left over from my rebuild, cause we did not need to seperate the head then. My car is normal again! Now its time to get my turbo rebuilt so I can complete trial #3 Peace!

[F22-GURU]

I have fixede the problem! It was none of the above!
It just so happens that the gasket where the intake meets the head, had blew out a piece right above/behind that injector, thus the surge, and the reason it was fine on throttle etc. Thankfully my dad and I sprayed some starter fluid around the intake gasket areas to find the hole then we see it!

Ummm!! Helloooo!!

From Post #6

Check for Intake Manifold Vacuum Leaks.
Check for Exhaust Leaks Pre-O2 Sensor.

From Post #9

Also if you have a Vacuum Leak at the Intake Manifold it too will cause a Lean Misfire at Idle and just above idle. An incorrect operating EGR can do the same thing.

To check for Vacuum Leaks it's best to get a spray bottle with water in it and spray around the Intake Manifold, Gaskets, F/INJ's and T/Body. If the engine stumbles at that spot then you have pinpointed the leak. Others suggest the use of Propane or Carb Cleaners etc, but they are highly flammable and the risk of a stray spark could be a costly, if not dangerous, exercise.
Cheer
Geoff

[HondaFan81]

Ummm!! Helloooo!!

From Post #6


From Post #9

No sh*t, I was thinking the same thing...some thanks you get eh? Someone is unappreciative cough cough cock cough cough

[F22-GURU]

No sh*t, I was thinking the same thing...some thanks you get eh? Someone is unappreciative cough cough cock cough cough

Well, looks like we'll have to put WESTSIDEACCORD on the DO NOT ADVISE List.