Paid tags, failed smog, can't get tags, HELP!

[Arith_90]

I have a 90 Accord EX, AT.

I took it to get smog the other day and it didn't pass. I ask the guy what it could be and he said, it could be 3 things, o2 sensor, timing belt and something else, I can't remember.

A few months prior me and my friend put on a new o2 sensor ourselves (the one directly under the car), and it was a pain in the ass. So how did it fail? Could it be something else? My friend said it cant be the o2 sensor because we installed it correctly, It might be the cat? I know its not the timing belt, I just had a brand new one put on 6 months prior. BTW the car has over 210k miles. Car starts, runs great, gas is pretty good, but not as great as it should be. Could it be the o2 sensor after all?

Need some advice, the car is just sitting and I paid for the tags already. DMV wont give me the tags till it pass smog and this is pissing me off! Help!

[coupes]

It'd be helpful to have your numbers. Also, what brand o2 sensor did you put in?

[Arith_90]

I remember with the third thing was he said, 'egr valve' but it did pass the Visual inspection.

The o2 sensor is Bosch, bought from Autozone (I know, I know).

Here is the HC (PPM)

M1: 15mph | Max: 83 | My Car: 127
M1: 25mph | Max: 65 | My Car: 80

Here is the NO (PPM)

M1: 15mph | Max: 559 | My car: 1473
M2: 25mph | Max: 516 | My car: 508

[coupes]

The bosch sensors tend to not work well in our cars. NTK/Denso is the best bet. There is a Diy. On here for cleaning the EGR and ports. Look that up and do that. Also, when was the last time you did and oil change and tune up? Old oil and ignition system parts can contribute to high HC.

[deevergote]

Yeah, replace that Bosch sensor. They generally don't work at all. Why they continue to sell them (and just about any parts store will sell you Bosch when you ask for an o2 sensor) is beyond me.

The timing belt is unlikely, as long as it hasn't skipped a tooth... and you'd definitely know if it did, as it would be running terribly.

The cat is a possibility, especially if it's been running rich for a while.

Be sure you replace all basic ignition components... cap, rotor, plugs... the coil and igniter wouldn't be bad to replace either (though they're not very cheap.)

[dj_ender]

I remember with the third thing was he said, 'egr valve' but it did pass the Visual inspection.

The o2 sensor is Bosch, bought from Autozone (I know, I know).

Here is the HC (PPM)

M1: 15mph | Max: 83 | My Car: 127
M1: 25mph | Max: 65 | My Car: 80

Here is the NO (PPM)

M1: 15mph | Max: 559 | My car: 1473
M2: 25mph | Max: 516 | My car: 508

Damn your running RICH, go get a new NGK o2 sensor. Having a faulty o2 sensor can cause your car to run rich, and a dirty egr will throw the emissions system outta wack as well.

[Arith_90]

Thanks a million for the quick, prompt responses people! I will buy an NGK/Denso o2 sensor tomorrow and will install. For the EGR, I saw a video that its the cause of high NOx? Is that true?

Another thing, I see at 15mph my car does the most damage, but higher 25mph its not as bad, possible even better as I drive faster. I notice on the Freeway I get GREAT gas but on the streets I don't, IE: driving slower than 25mph.

EDIT: I'm looking online, hoping to get it shipped overnight, what is this "upstream" sensor I'm reading about?

http://www.*********.com/catalog/199...en_sensor.html

[deevergote]

I'm not sure what that upstream means... but our cars only have one oxygen sensor, so as long as you get one for the correct model engine you have (you SHOULD have an F22A4 in your car), then you'll have the right thing. That's a nice price on the Denso. Normally I'd say go to www.rockauto.com, as they take really good care of the members here, but that price may be better than theirs. Either way, $40 or less for an o2 sensor is great. They used to be over $100 for any model.

A malfunctioning EGR system can definitely cause emissions problems. There is at least one good DIY thread in the DIY section of this site that will show you how to clean your EGR ports.

[i-07]

indeed man check the egr and clean out the ports if you can and maybee seafoam the car a few times i used to do that with my old sedan when in lived in mass.

but yeah rockauto.com is great man

[deevergote]

If you do seafoam, follow the instructions on the package very closely. It can do major damage if used improperly. (though I once left it in my crankcase for 4000 miles and saw no negative results... Do as I say, not as I do!)

[i-07]

If you do seafoam, follow the instructions on the package very closely. It can do major damage if used improperly. (though I once left it in my crankcase for 4000 miles and saw no negative results... Do as I say, not as I do!)

i put it in my gas ran the car for a while then put some down the brake boost vac line on the intake and you will get lots of smoke when you put in the vac line but it will start out as black then go to a white color then you know it it clean lol

[mitsubishiv5]

i would listen to the guys ^

Im from cali as well. Smog is strict either way, and im always scared to smog my car and fail as a gross polluter. So take the basic facts before you do smog the car.

First:
Tune up. This includes but not limited to an oil change(basically 17dollars), A quick fuel system cleaning with seafoam cleaner, fill the take up with clean burning fuel such as 91 octane gas with a full bottle of seafoam or easy to obtain denatured alcohol(ethanol). As soon as you clean the fuel system and basic cleaning, switch out the spark plugs after. Its possible to foul the plugs with the cleaners, and since i bet the car hasnt had a tuneup might as well change them out. Make sure the ignition timing is on point, you can also adjust the timing to the specified markings to make the car burn all the excess gas while i runs rich.

As much as this may seem so basic, a quick cleaning makes the car last longer and run cleaner. I would highly doubt the cat is faulty since the nox readings arent bad. Cleaning the egr port, and valve is also recommended since its easy to get to, and using simply carb cleaner will help the it much.


Make sure the o2 sensor is also functioning properly. i never knew these accords had problems with the bosch sensors, so now ima look into the other sensors


also make sure the distributor components are cleaned as well, make sure spark is strong.


Nox is caused by the internal combustion temp, so id also make sure the car doesnt run super hot. Of course the cat needs to be hot to function properly, make sure the car isnt burning too hot. This is caused by timing.


ummm ill look into more. im not an expert, but ive done my fair share of research. :P

[i-07]

that is a good chunk of info lol man

i would do wut he said man

and yeah even if you use bosch plugs the car runs funny but there wires are not too bad if you can't get your hands on the ngk or sti plug wires

[alan lx]

I would recommend this too from my experience, check all 4 spark plugs first. If all 4 look okay, then yes you have a some sensor issue possible cat issue. If 1 plug looks black or not firing correctly, then you will know the its isolated to that cylinder. This is the best area I can tell you to start.
Mine had a cracked exhaust manifold and a faulty cat and then I still barely failed. So I retarded the timing a whole bunch and it passed. Two different repair shops told me about the retarting the timing trick. If you can get it close to passing, this little trick does work. You will get it. Be patient.

[dano28]

Nox is caused by the internal combustion temp, so id also make sure the car doesnt run super hot. Of course the cat needs to be hot to function properly, make sure the car isnt burning too hot. This is caused by timing.. :P

Not quite true.. The job of the EGR system is to introduce an inert gas (exhaust) into the combustion chamber to cool things down reducing the formation of Nox. The problem is that the ECU can only determine if the EGR valve pintle is raising or not. The actual metering ports in the intake runners can be blocked. This is fairly easy to fix on the f22's. Believe Honda sells a kit for this. This really has nothing to do with engine overheating...it's more like combustion temps are just a bit higher than they should be. You would NEVER see this on the temperature gauge. See this article below

http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl053c.htm