CB7Tuner Forums

Go Back   CB7Tuner Forums > Beginner forum -- New members post here! > Beginner Technical/Performance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 6 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 02-02-2011, 10:01 PM   #21
Chase d cb7
Newcomer
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: OHIO
Posts: 16
Chase d cb7 is cool... so far.
Far out man that is wicked, not too crazy for the top mount but I dont know what the difference is performance wise. I agree, not a daily. Wouldn't even be considered a sleeper to me, sucker would scream.

That is the f22b?

.peace.
Chase d cb7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 10:10 PM   #22
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 35,895
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accrdwgnguy View Post
1. I dont want to hear "get a Bisi header, everything else is a waste of time." Not everyone can afford one, a basic 4-2-1 header is a good start.
Most basic (cheap) 4-2-1 headers offer very little in the way of gains. That Megan header he has might be getting him 2hp over stock...

Honestly, the Bisimoto header really is the only viable performance option for us. Other headers are generic designs, very similar to the stock manifolds, and have very restrictive collectors. Kamikaze makes a header that is fairly cheap in comparison to the Bisimoto piece, but the quality is absolute garbage. It does offer decent gains compared to any other non-bisi header, however.
ESP could probably be convinced to make F22A headers, if enough interest were shown. Their H22 header makes decent power, and sells for under $500. I bet they could do the same for the F22A. It wouldn't make Bisimoto numbers, but it'd be likely to offer half the power for half the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase d cb7 View Post
Far out man that is wicked, not too crazy for the top mount but I dont know what the difference is performance wise. I agree, not a daily. Wouldn't even be considered a sleeper to me, sucker would scream.

That is the f22b?

.peace.
What do you mean "top mount"... That is what ITBs look like on an F22A. Where else are you going to put them?

And that is an F22A... well, mostly.
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 10:17 PM   #23
Accrdwgnguy
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Weare, NH
Posts: 3,564
Accrdwgnguy seems to have made some friends!
Send a message via AIM to Accrdwgnguy
If you can do some welding, you can open up the collector of any "cheap" header.

I just tired of seeing every person that asks about their F22A, being told that the $1200 header is their only option. Kinda discouraging if you are just getting into the hobby, plus if you are buying one of these cars you may not have those kind of funds. A 4-2-1 header is definitely an upgrade over a stock A1 manifold.

Also all my mods are DD friendly, I have stock drive ability for a 60 mile round trip commute everyday, and it certainly gets rowdy when I get into the go pedal.
Accrdwgnguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 10:27 PM   #24
Dani Filth
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 351
Dani Filth is cool... so far.
i dont see it as dicouraging. i see it as telling someone that they could spend their money elsewhere to get more of a gain. they could spend 120 on a megan header or 120 on a delta cam regrind. which would be the better choice? id take the cam
if you can weld you can open up the collector but most quality collectors are going to run about 120 themselves. check prices on burns stainless for 2.5". 120 for a cheap header, 120 for a bigger collector, and if they cant weld then they have to pay for a welder. if esp makes a header for the f22 and keeps it around 400 or so then youd be spending about the same money. right now bisimoto is just the only one to offer a real header. everything else is just a low quality knockoff of the dc sports design. even the dc header offers little power. the price is all in the carb sticker
__________________
Dani Filth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 10:49 PM   #25
blu35p4rr0w
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Everywhere VA
Posts: 100
blu35p4rr0w is cool... so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
ITBs are a terrible idea for a daily driver. Usually, they are run with no filter element as well... which would suck in dirt and debris very easily, destroying the motor.
That may be true... but I need a new set of underwear after seeing the Bisi F22 with ITBs....
I'm subbing here cuz it's givin me a lot of ideas for my f22a. more like dreams that can only be realized through saving or getting a better job once I get the blue bird on the road.

As far as opening ports, how much? If you're going to open the ports and open up the header you'd need an idea what dimensions you want, unless you're just trying to imitate the Bisi(copy/paste). As far as welding, if you can do it urself sweet, if not how much would it cost to have done in comparison. I see 240 for header and collector. Would it really come close to 1200 after paying a welder? That seems a little insane to me.

maybe the esp option, if it existed, would come close. but if It's really going to cost that much to pay a welder, I need to take a welding course! that & an auto body course. I wanna be able to fabricate & paint everything myself, plus make my living working on cars. One of my dreams. Then work towards "ASE everything." I'd be like the young Yeshua Ha-Mashiach if he was a mechanic/welder/painter/machinist instead of a carpenter.

F22A makes me !

Last edited by blu35p4rr0w; 02-02-2011 at 11:25 PM.
blu35p4rr0w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 08:59 AM   #26
capo_status
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 52
capo_status is cool... so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabes View Post
Why would you port any ports? The exhaust ports are already massive and to add on to that, honda engineers did an amazing job already in designing their heads to operate within the rev limit that they set. A mild cam will carry the powerband right to redline nicely. Porting the head does to things, either wrecks it completely or moves your powerband higher than intended on an f.

OP I am not trying to discourage just making sure that people understand that bisi's f's are a lot more than just forged pistons and rods with a balanced bottom end. His entire bottom end is custom engineered and built buy him to rev to like 13000rpms. Again not trying to discourage just making sure you know.


OP have you fully considered an H swap? You start with a 200 horsepower 159 lbs/ft of torque with good mileage and street manners for cruising. No reason with some tasteful modifications that you couldn't turn that into a 250 horsepower n/a. Just a thought. If you are going to turbo it then I would just stay stick with your f. It is a solid, robust engine, it's only issue is it's ginormous stroke which makes high power n/a's a little more difficult than an h. Again not trying to discourage, if that is what you want go get er done, Just making sure you understand all your options and the pros and cons.

And don't bother with itb's unless your are planning pretty much a straight race car.
I have considered and still am considering an H swap. I have a lot of time to think about this and this build is just an idea. I'm mainly looking for peoples opinions so I can find the best build possible for what Im aiming to do.
capo_status is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 09:02 AM   #27
capo_status
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 52
capo_status is cool... so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accrdwgnguy View Post
1. I dont want to hear "get a Bisi header, everything else is a waste of time." Not everyone can afford one, a basic 4-2-1 header is a good start.

2. I would start with an aftermarket cam. I have had good results with my Bullfrog/Gude cam. Its comparable to a Bisi stg 2, but given the choice again, I would get the Bisi. I picked up my cam because a local was offering a good deal on the cam.

3. Upgrade to a H23 intake manifold to improve your airflow.

Your other bolt-on mods you listed is a great start, the 2 mods I listed are terrific bolt-ons that are relativity inexpensive, and will give you a great boost in power.

My mods are:
H23 Intake manifold - $50
Used DC Sports header - $70
Gude Cam - $100
2.5" Exhaust - $160
K+N Filter - $35

With these mods I should be at around 155 - 170 whp, once tuned. I have to dnyo the setup to find out for sure, but others with similar mods are putting down this amount of power, for no where near the amount of cash for a H22 swap.
My plan is to go with the bisi cam first out of all the work I want to do. As for H23 intake manifold, my plan is to get the bisi intake manifold which is better than the H23 manifold.
capo_status is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 09:06 AM   #28
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 35,895
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
Quote:
Originally Posted by blu35p4rr0w View Post
That may be true... but I need a new set of underwear after seeing the Bisi F22 with ITBs....
I'm subbing here cuz it's givin me a lot of ideas for my f22a. more like dreams that can only be realized through saving or getting a better job once I get the blue bird on the road.

As far as opening ports, how much? If you're going to open the ports and open up the header you'd need an idea what dimensions you want, unless you're just trying to imitate the Bisi(copy/paste). As far as welding, if you can do it urself sweet, if not how much would it cost to have done in comparison. I see 240 for header and collector. Would it really come close to 1200 after paying a welder? That seems a little insane to me.

maybe the esp option, if it existed, would come close. but if It's really going to cost that much to pay a welder, I need to take a welding course! that & an auto body course. I wanna be able to fabricate & paint everything myself, plus make my living working on cars. One of my dreams. Then work towards "ASE everything." I'd be like the young Yeshua Ha-Mashiach if he was a mechanic/welder/painter/machinist instead of a carpenter.

F22A makes me !
The "almost the same price" was in regards to the suggested ESP header, not the Bisimoto header. The gains from welding a 2.5" collector on a cheap header wouldn't come anywhere near the Bisimoto header's gains. There's no sense even trying to compare.
I personally paid $100 to have my traction bar tig-welded in place. It took the guy about an hour to do. That was merely welding that one part to my car... not attempting to fabricate a leak-free modified header. I could easily see a talented welder asking for $200. It is, however, impossible to say... because I cannot speak for all the professional welders out there. There might be someone that would do it well, and do it for a case of their favorite beer. Still, it seems like an awful lot of money and effort to put into what is still an inferior product.

As for the exhaust ports, unless you know exactly what you're doing, you're better off going to an experienced head porter. Someone that has worked on the F22A, and tell him what you want. With his experience, and hopefully the assistance of a flow bench, he can modify the head according to your needs.
Please tell me where you can cut and paste Bisi's exact head porting specs...
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 11:05 AM   #29
theSOB
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 744
theSOB may have said something they shouldn't have...
Send a message via AIM to theSOB Send a message via Yahoo to theSOB
Quote:
Originally Posted by capo_status View Post
My plan is to go with the bisi cam first out of all the work I want to do. As for H23 intake manifold, my plan is to get the bisi intake manifold which is better than the H23 manifold.
what's the bisi intake manifold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
As for the exhaust ports, unless you know exactly what you're doing, you're better off going to an experienced head porter. Someone that has worked on the F22A, and tell him what you want. With his experience, and hopefully the assistance of a flow bench, he can modify the head according to your needs.
Please tell me where you can cut and paste Bisi's exact head porting specs...
how bad of an idea is it taking my head to a local guy here with a flowbench and everything but he's only ever worked on domestics or tractor engines? lol.
__________________
2013 Ice Cream Cruise!
VIDEO: 2012 Ice Cream Cruise
VIDEO: 2012 Ice Cream Cruise part 2
The single largest cruise in the Midwest!
August 3 ~ Omaha, NE

By 1320 Video


Member's Ride Thread
theSOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 11:41 AM   #30
rexload
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 1,808
rexload seems to have made some friends!
- set a specific power goal and how much you have to spend
- decide how much of the labor you will be doing yourself

then at least you could come up with a parts list that you need for your power goal. plus people will be able to tell you if your budget is realistic.
rexload is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 11:59 AM   #31
capo_status
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 52
capo_status is cool... so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theSOB View Post
what's the bisi intake manifold?



how bad of an idea is it taking my head to a local guy here with a flowbench and everything but he's only ever worked on domestics or tractor engines? lol.
Bisimoto makes an intake manifold for F22s. If I recall correctly Bisi makes an intake manifold for the H22 as well.
capo_status is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 12:39 PM   #32
Madpol
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NewZealand
Posts: 275
Madpol is cool... so far.
im just curious as to why your choosing to spend alot of money on a f22?
im not saying its bad im just curious
Madpol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 01:40 PM   #33
theSOB
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 744
theSOB may have said something they shouldn't have...
Send a message via AIM to theSOB Send a message via Yahoo to theSOB
Quote:
Originally Posted by capo_status View Post
Bisimoto makes an intake manifold for F22s. If I recall correctly Bisi makes an intake manifold for the H22 as well.
is this what you're talking about?


a design like that will only work well with a forced induction setup
__________________
2013 Ice Cream Cruise!
VIDEO: 2012 Ice Cream Cruise
VIDEO: 2012 Ice Cream Cruise part 2
The single largest cruise in the Midwest!
August 3 ~ Omaha, NE

By 1320 Video


Member's Ride Thread
theSOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 01:45 PM   #34
capo_status
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 52
capo_status is cool... so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpol View Post
im just curious as to why your choosing to spend alot of money on a f22?
im not saying its bad im just curious
As I said earlier, an h22 Swap has not yet been ruled out. I'm just exploring the possibilities of building an f22. This will be my project car so either way it will fun and good experience.
capo_status is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 01:47 PM   #35
capo_status
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 52
capo_status is cool... so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theSOB View Post
is this what you're talking about?


a design like that will only work well with a forced induction setup
So rather than the bisi manifold would it be more beneficial to go with the h23 manifold in an n/a build?
capo_status is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 01:59 PM   #36
theSOB
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 744
theSOB may have said something they shouldn't have...
Send a message via AIM to theSOB Send a message via Yahoo to theSOB
Quote:
Originally Posted by capo_status View Post
So rather than the bisi manifold would it be more beneficial to go with the h23 manifold in an n/a build?
yes, with double stacked iab plates. i personally like iab to remain operable. others like to eliminate it altogether.
__________________
2013 Ice Cream Cruise!
VIDEO: 2012 Ice Cream Cruise
VIDEO: 2012 Ice Cream Cruise part 2
The single largest cruise in the Midwest!
August 3 ~ Omaha, NE

By 1320 Video


Member's Ride Thread
theSOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 05:25 PM   #37
blu35p4rr0w
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Everywhere VA
Posts: 100
blu35p4rr0w is cool... so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Please tell me where you can cut and paste Bisi's exact head porting specs...
I have no idea brother. If it was available somewhere or you knew somebody who could tell you. Or if perhaps you had access to a bisi header and could copy off of that yourself for your header & head ports. Or happened to be taking notes when Bisi was porting a head...

If you had that bisi f22a sitting right in front of you and a good machinist, I would think he could make some measurements and take some notes and copy it. Good luck with that though. I'm still kinda new to all this tuning stuff. I'm just saying if you knew them you could try to replicate them for your own build.

As far as if you don't know what you're doing get someone who does. OF COURSE my man. I would never try resurfacing or porting or welding anything because I don't know the first thing about it. LOL
__________________

[IMG][/IMG]
The Blue Bomber
blu35p4rr0w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 06:58 PM   #38
Madpol
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NewZealand
Posts: 275
Madpol is cool... so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by capo_status View Post
As I said earlier, an h22 Swap has not yet been ruled out. I'm just exploring the possibilities of building an f22. This will be my project car so either way it will fun and good experience.
totally agree man....any project is fun and a good learning experience.

im looking forward to my h22 swap but sadly i need to attend to some major rust above both rear pillars on the roof which is gona set me back $1800 not including parts but once thats done its all on for the swap and DAMN im looking forward to it...

-H22 engine (complete with manifolds)
-F20B gearbox with LSD
-loom
-ecu
-alternator,distributor and starter motor
-power steer pump
-axles
-shifters
-standard engine mounts and brackets

all for $2200
Madpol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 08:22 PM   #39
Chase d cb7
Newcomer
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: OHIO
Posts: 16
Chase d cb7 is cool... so far.
[quote=deevergote;2722237]What do you mean "top mount"... That is what ITBs look like on an F22A. Where else are you going to put them?

QUOTE]

Top Mount Injectors.

Dont you be jivin me like that.

Nah its a b, f22bisi after all that. fuck.

.peace.
Chase d cb7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 08:51 PM   #40
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 35,895
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
The F22A has AMAZING potential. After a certain point, an F22A can make just as much streetable power as an H22A for about the same money (get to about 250whp, and the overall cost of building each engine to that level would even out...)

[quote=Chase d cb7;2722958]
Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
What do you mean "top mount"... That is what ITBs look like on an F22A. Where else are you going to put them?

QUOTE]

Top Mount Injectors.

Dont you be jivin me like that.

Nah its a b, f22bisi after all that. fuck.

.peace.
Is this the sort of thing I'm to expect from you on a regular basis? If so, please just leave this forum now, and save us all a headache.
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
build , f22a , n/a

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.