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sleeves

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    sleeves

    As of right now im making a list of everything i would need and pricing everything out.
    Now to the question how much HP can the stock sleeves handle RELIABLY.
    Yes i understand there is a search function and there is google and everything else to search this. But what ive come across is anything from "if you boost it sleeve it" to it can handle 400-500hp

    I know that pistons/rods/bearings all need to be upgraded
    goals are 350-400

    moving list up here so that its easier to find, and other people searching same topic will find what you really need for it so it can be informative.


    bisimoto piston/rods with upgraded wrist pins(750)---have
    bisimoto valve springs(150)---have
    darton mid sleeves(700)--have
    t-belt gates racing 110--have
    arp main studs(40)---have
    IC greddy---200--have
    gram injectors 1000cc(400)--have
    Aem fpr(100)--have
    Aem fuel rail(100)---have
    Arp headstuds 145--have
    KS balance shaft eliminator kit with oil pump--have
    machine cost/new bearings--3500
    clutchmasters fx400--have
    clutchmasters flywheel--have
    new harmonic balancer -- have
    Garrett gtx2863--have
    92-96 prelude traction bar--have
    Mfactory LSD--have
    OBX new style ram manifold--have
    fuel pump 45--255 in tank walbro--have
    gasket set 280--have
    HKS bov--have
    38mm wastegate---have
    aem oil temp gauge--have
    aem boost gauge---have
    .5mm oversized valves---have
    bisi 1.2 turbo cam--400--have
    bisi cam gear--170---have
    head gasket either bisimoto or cometic--110---have
    heat shielding intake gasket---have
    mishimoto 1/2 rad--have
    85a innovative mounts--have
    rebuilt trans--done and have back
    aem wideband---have
    hondata or neptune
    new temp sensors--have
    mishimoto sandwhich plate---have
    t4 to vband adapter---have
    clutch slave--have
    oil/coolant feed lines
    piping 400
    2.5" exhaust---have
    downpipe
    Last edited by 93redcb7; 04-22-2016, 03:13 PM.

    #2
    You are going to need about $10k+ to reach your goals and built propperly an iron block can hold a good deal of boost without sleeves (I don't know about 500hp). Your weak points are not the block.

    Talk to NWAccord
    Last edited by wildBill83; 09-14-2014, 08:29 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      you mean the weak point isnt the sleeves? cause the pistons/ringlands i know for sure tend to break

      Comment


        #4
        I would say the weakest is the piston ring lands like you have already identified. A properly built motor with a correctly installed block guard to convert to a closed deck block will hold up to some real abuse.

        Weakest point will be the tuner, really. But these iron blocks with the right pistons can do decent numbers, again I'm not talking 500hp but respectable numbers. If you want to go big though it's going to be with a hodge podge of OEM parts and aftermarket parts and machine work and all of witch are not cheap.

        Comment


          #5
          turbo kit 1888.95-
          2257.50
          rod/piston 819.99
          rod/main/thrust washers 179.99
          fuel pump 45
          fuel rail 110
          FIC injector 380
          hondata 700
          map sensor 100
          FPR 140
          Arp headstuds 145
          HA3-XTSD - XT/Perf Street Rigid clutch 580



          yes i know its not cheap, so far that is my list. And yes i know machine work and what not also. But i think i may sleeve it and just not have to worry about it again

          If you see anything missing you can also add it, I'm getting there and I know stuff is still missing
          Last edited by 93redcb7; 09-15-2014, 06:54 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            The random seals, gaskets and belts that should be replaced if you haven't already.

            YouTube Clicky!!

            Comment


              #7
              Ah yes I just haven't gotten that on my list yet, but thanks .

              Comment


                #8
                Countless enthusiasts have pushed the F22A beyond the 400whp mark in boost. However, always keep in mind that Honda never intended any motor for the purposes of forced induction, with the exception of the K23A and the N-Series Diesel engines. That being said, sleeves and/or other components can and do fail at any given time.

                Why do you think switching back to an F22A is cheaper? You already own the H22; if you're planning on sleeving the price is the same. Darton no longer produces sleeves for the F22A, they let the H22A sleeves fill that need now, so you would have an 87mm bore F22A at the very least. Golden Eagle, AEBS, ERL, Benson, will all charge the same price which ranges from roughly $1100-$1400.

                You can apply forced induction to the stock H22A FRM sleeves, as many S2000 and NSX enthusiasts do so regularly. Or if the stock compression and ringlands scare you, opt for Mahle Gold Series Pistons. Your biggest issue is just finding a shop that can do the machining, but if you know of any shops that specialize in Porsches they can do the work. I always said if a Porsche 911 Turbo S uses FRM in its sleeves, then Honda must be doing something right.
                '94 JDM H22A: 178whp 146wtq

                Originally posted by deevergote
                If you say double dutch rudder, i'm banning you...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Also once you have a roadmap setup in front of you, piece the turbo kit together yourself, you will get better components at the same price.

                  You can start with the DSM manifold and a salvage turbo with a rebuild kit and all you need is the other small items of the kit, like a turbo timer, boost controller, fuel pump and new fuel pressure regulator, intercooler, plumbing and hoses. This is actually the route I'm going with my CB7 this winter. That way I can pay for more machining and higher quality parts inside the motor.
                  Last edited by wildBill83; 09-15-2014, 08:21 PM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Joey GT-R View Post
                    Countless enthusiasts have pushed the F22A beyond the 400whp mark in boost. However, always keep in mind that Honda never intended any motor for the purposes of forced induction, with the exception of the K23A and the N-Series Diesel engines. That being said, sleeves and/or other components can and do fail at any given time.

                    Why do you think switching back to an F22A is cheaper? You already own the H22; if you're planning on sleeving the price is the same. Darton no longer produces sleeves for the F22A, they let the H22A sleeves fill that need now, so you would have an 87mm bore F22A at the very least. Golden Eagle, AEBS, ERL, Benson, will all charge the same price which ranges from roughly $1100-$1400.

                    You can apply forced induction to the stock H22A FRM sleeves, as many S2000 and NSX enthusiasts do so regularly. Or if the stock compression and ringlands scare you, opt for Mahle Gold Series Pistons. Your biggest issue is just finding a shop that can do the machining, but if you know of any shops that specialize in Porsches they can do the work. I always said if a Porsche 911 Turbo S uses FRM in its sleeves, then Honda must be doing something right.

                    Well the h22 doesn't make a whole lot of power till 5k+ and that would require a large turbo to take advantage of the power band of the h22, therefore is have to be way revved up, and everything I've read is never boost more than 10 psi on the stock frm sleeves. Don't get me wrong for 600-700+ hp the h22 is a great platform

                    Comment


                      #11
                      With an ECU tune you can change the VTEC kick in at a lower RPM and also if you size the turbo for the RPM range you actually DON'T need a big turbo or have to hit boost after 5K RPM. The sky is the limit if you are building it, size things wrong and you will be wasting money and power, size things right and magic happens.

                      BTW if you are sleeving there are a good number of Darton sleeves still on ebay for 86mm F22 builds at a decent price.

                      Don't forget a block guard to keep your sleeves in check for around $110.

                      I would also go with Arais 86mm pistons for around $560 with H beam rods for around $250...

                      So far without machining costs you are up to around $1500 without including the $1000 machining costs and seal/bearing kits.

                      I haven't even gotten into the head yet, you can bet your bottom dollar I would put new OS valves on and have the valve seats machined with stiff springs and a special cam... So again another $2500 in parts, labor and machine time.

                      So now I'm at around $5000 and still don't have a turbo or a running complete motor. You can expect to piece together a decent turbo kit for around $1000 (don't buy the cheapo pre-assembled generic kits). So now I'm looking at a rough estimate of around $6000, add in the unknown 25% mystery costs that come with modifications and you are now looking at something in the ball park of $7500 to get you into the 300WHP range... I haven't even included the cost of the ECU and dyno tune...
                      Last edited by wildBill83; 09-15-2014, 10:16 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by 93redcb7 View Post
                        Well the h22 doesn't make a whole lot of power till 5k+ and that would require a large turbo to take advantage of the power band of the h22, therefore is have to be way revved up, and everything I've read is never boost more than 10 psi on the stock frm sleeves. Don't get me wrong for 600-700+ hp the h22 is a great platform


                        Not true. the h22 stock is pretty flat across the board. It becomes very efficient around 5k (+25 ish ft-lbs) and then VTEC just keeps the torque from hitting a brick wall like it does in the F.

                        You sound like you want to match the turbo to the cars power band. If that's the case, the H has a wide powerband as shown in the chart. It would be easier to let the turbo determine the cars powerband. (low, mid, upper)

                        10 psi isn't 10 psi for all turbo's. I would say try not to go past a certain torque value on the stock sleeves. I can't say which value because I don't know. That's going to be up to you. Also, don't limit yourself to peak numbers. If you make 600 hp at the end of your rev range, then you'll be revving all day just to reach boost. Focus on how long you can keep the torque up and the power will follow.

                        YouTube Clicky!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post


                          Not true. the h22 stock is pretty flat across the board. It becomes very efficient around 5k (+25 ish ft-lbs) and then VTEC just keeps the torque from hitting a brick wall like it does in the F.

                          You sound like you want to match the turbo to the cars power band. If that's the case, the H has a wide powerband as shown in the chart. It would be easier to let the turbo determine the cars powerband. (low, mid, upper)

                          10 psi isn't 10 psi for all turbo's. I would say try not to go past a certain torque value on the stock sleeves. I can't say which value because I don't know. That's going to be up to you. Also, don't limit yourself to peak numbers. If you make 600 hp at the end of your rev range, then you'll be revving all day just to reach boost. Focus on how long you can keep the torque up and the power will follow.
                          see it makes 100hp at 3.5k rpm, i want something that is going to be quick 0-60 not 60-120, yea i can get a turbo to spool to make power sooner, but then it runs out of efficiency and becomes basically a hair dryer... and i guess i havent added in... this is my daily driver, yes i do have another car if i need it though..
                          ill be limiting my numbers based on clutch and just pure drivability, i dont want 5-600hp to just not be able to get traction.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by wildBill83 View Post
                            With an ECU tune you can change the VTEC kick in at a lower RPM and also if you size the turbo for the RPM range you actually DON'T need a big turbo or have to hit boost after 5K RPM. The sky is the limit if you are building it, size things wrong and you will be wasting money and power, size things right and magic happens.

                            BTW if you are sleeving there are a good number of Darton sleeves still on ebay for 86mm F22 builds at a decent price.

                            Don't forget a block guard to keep your sleeves in check for around $110.

                            I would also go with Arais 86mm pistons for around $560 with H beam rods for around $250...

                            So far without machining costs you are up to around $1500 without including the $1000 machining costs and seal/bearing kits.

                            I haven't even gotten into the head yet, you can bet your bottom dollar I would put new OS valves on and have the valve seats machined with stiff springs and a special cam... So again another $2500 in parts, labor and machine time.

                            So now I'm at around $5000 and still don't have a turbo or a running complete motor. You can expect to piece together a decent turbo kit for around $1000 (don't buy the cheapo pre-assembled generic kits). So now I'm looking at a rough estimate of around $6000, add in the unknown 25% mystery costs that come with modifications and you are now looking at something in the ball park of $7500 to get you into the 300WHP range... I haven't even included the cost of the ECU and dyno tune...
                            yes i understand that you can change the crossover point of vtec, but for it to work properly you have to crossover when the lower lobes are at their highest efficiency to keep making power, kicking vtec over at 3.5k is just going to bog the motor... trust me when i swaped my h i was having issues and we manual tested it by driving and my friend hit 2 wires together for the solenoid to open, and it just flat falls on its face below say 5k rpm. So in terms of having vtec kick over sooner you would need smaller lobes to compensate for that

                            Comment


                              #15
                              So you aren't planning to cam your monster HP F22 motor? How would that be any different than buying a new set of cams for the H22 and putting the same amount of work into it as you plan to put into an F block? If you are going for a specific build, then you need to select every part to match. If you are telling me with the correct sized cams, tuning for early VTEC, and the correct size turbo I couldn't make a quick 0-60 car? Pshaw!

                              Comment

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