Cisco NA F22 non-VTEC SOHC Project - Full Street White

[quakerjoe]

well i used tap water the last time I flushed my system and it messed up my system, but the water where I lived sucked. Also I was flushing the system, because my dad put red coolant in to top off the radiator. (For those who dont know what happens when you mix the two and add heat. It turns to jelly. Really doesnt flow too well)

[owequitit]

Well, I was under impression that our cooling fans don't come on while driving, but that is not true apparently according to a Honda mechanic friend of mine. Anyways, I heard from one person that using Redline water wetter it seemed to make no difference either. Perhaps I will try and just use a more water concentrated mixture than coolant, see if that helps in warmer weather. I figure anything to help the motor since it is seeing higher compression that it was originally designed for.

For those stating distilled water use, I see your point. However, I admit that I've used tap water for a while with the coolant mixture at a 50/50 ratio for many years and have had no issues with corrosion on radiators. Any radiator I've replaced on my parent's cars have been do to deterioration of the radiator cooling fins, not corrosion or leaking at the seams. Anyhow, my white Accord has a brand new OEM replacement Koyo radiator on it with new thermostat and radiator hoses, everything on the motor is basically new minus a few sensors, that is all that is used. However, the few "used" sensors are known good or tested good components. Well the fan motors themselves are used, but good. The starter is good used. The battery is new, the alternator is newly remanufactured, you get the idea.

I didn't notice anything drastic with water wetter either.

I suppose it also depends on your tap water. AZ tap water is so nasty, it eats through cast iron and copper piping in less than 20 years in many cases, so I just don't chance it.

[KeeleDesign]

i have never used tap water, and i have never had a problem. Also when when refilling all of our cars at the shop we always use destilled water as well. Insurance reasons.
As for the fans kicking in goin down the road,, yes they do as you have figured out. especially at WOT.
It's kinda funny. I melted one of my fans completely on the gsx yesterday, the blades litterly melted into the housing....

[quakerjoe]

I think more of your problem was due to the mixing of different coolants.

Well I had a large amount of mineral deposits through out my system. Particularly around bends.

[owequitit]

i just got to reading, a old magazine, and was reading about unorthodox pulleys'.. I think you replaced yours with stock, but.... here we go this is what i read.

in the verry first issue of project car.
\
this is speaking of a dsm eclipse on page 50.

"A lot of people get worried about an un-dampened pulley, but there should be no concerns with our short stroked small displacement japanese motors. Let the V8 meatheads worry about nonsense."

Take it for what it's worth..

According to Larry Widmer at Endyn, Honda's without UR pulleys show less bearing wear than those with it.

Honda's are pretty well internally balanced, yes, but considering the redlines they achieve, it doesn't take much to accelerate wear either.

[owequitit]

i think it's different for every application, and to say otherwise would be misleading.

Maybe for other makes, but he has said that consistently with any Honda engine, he can tell by bearing wear charachteristics which ones use them and which ones don't. He has been inside enough Honda engines, that I am inclined to take his advice over a lot of others.

Also, it should be noted that stock Honda crank pulleys ARE balanced. I don't think the UR ones are, after all, their whole marketing premise is that they don't need to be.

[501accord]

You guys should be using pure "reverse osmosis" h20 in your cooling systems. distilled is great, but its just purified, as they do NOT guarantee zero TDS (total desolved solids) and that is what is going to be making the difference.

[Gettin_faster91]

Cant wait to see the final tune and number on this build. So much effort, time, money have gone into this build mad props man. You are a true inspiration to us all.

[KillerCam282]

thats exactly why he's a ford guy.

Don't hate on Ford guys. I'm one.

Remember Cisco, what I told you about my own personal deduction. Give it some time so you know that everything has definitely settled and everything has expanded/shrunk to its permanent size.

Since it seems you are going to tune it now, tune carefully.

[KillerCam282]

That's because ford's official breakin procedure for the last 5 years has been let the car idle for 1 hour when it first gets to the dealer then drive anywhere except the highway for 100 miles. They said you can beat the living shit out of it and whatever else you want, but highway crusing (constant RPMs) are bad for a new motor. Their official break-in period is the first full tank of gas. I like ford's pollicy on breakin.

However, the highest revving Ford engines is the Zetec motor found in the Focus and the 4V V8 in the Cobra(forged bottom end). Those engines only spin to 7200 rpms. SVT breaks those engines in before its even installed so they don't even count. Everything else has redlines of 6200 rpms (mustangs GTs) or lower(everything else).

Nowadays, all of these engines see a dyno before they are even installed. Too many people were blowing engines after only 10,000 miles. So it got expensive due to the fact that everything was under warranty. That break-in period is just a precaution.

Wed3k, "the ford guy" sounds like he was talking about something I experienced. Almost every part in the engine expands somewhat on first start up, including the pistons. Overtime, the pistons will expand on a more predictable rate. Thus the grooving in the cylinder wall is vital during the first few miles. However, my experience has shown me that if this precaution is ignored, you will be back at square one.

[HondaFan81]

My piston to wall clearance is .003", which is specified by Arias on the pistons I used. All this was done at the machine shop and I confirmed their work. Also, this motor has seen 325 miles of use and WOT to 4000 RPMs & engine coasting, frequently. The leakdown numbers indicate the piston rings are sealed.

The motor is ready. I'm am going to run regular 5W-30 motor oil in there until this motor has achieved 3,000 miles, then change to synthetic. Apparently, the piston rings still need time to fully conform to the cylinders according to Bisi. So the final tune will be done after the Bisimoto header is received and installed.

Also, this project will actually get partial throttle tuning, so that is as it should be, unlike my red Accord. I want this car to it's full potential throughout the powerband, well as best as my tuner can do. That being said, I expect to return to the performance shop here and there throughout my experience after final tune, to get additional street/partial throttle tuning if need be.

NOTE: If anyone has noticed, my first page of modifications is even more organized than before. Also, I went through this entire thread and removed all information that did not contribute. I kept all comments, suggestions, relative technical information in this thread, the BS was removed and repeated posts/quoting. I want this to be a good reference thread for future members. That is why you may notice threads removed.

[HondaFan81]

In reply to the post you made in "build up of F20B" about your catch can;

I can't really tell how you routed your lines. But from what I can make you, you installed the catch can between the two outlets on the valve cover?

I'm mentioned the setup before, but scattered throughout this thread. I'll make it concise and clear here.

My crankcase breather/catch can system on F22ax SOHC non-VTEC motor:

- utilized both crankcase breather and PCV ports on F22 valve cover
- removed PCV from valve cover port & installed 1/2" inlet/outlet barb fitting, clamped hose to fitting
- breather hose clamped directly to breather port on valve cover
- plugged off both intake piping breather and IM PCV port with vacuum caps
- ran 1/2" I.D. fuel/emissions hose from both breather & PCV ports on valve cover to catch can
- catch can mounted near driver-side motor mount (see photos)

Catch Can layout:

- two 15mm inlet ports (for both 1/2" I.D. hoses
- two 15mm outlet ports (for both K&N-like material small cone filters)
- drain plug
- site level
- 0.6L capacity

Note: This 0.6L can is fine, but I would suggest 1 quart or 1 liter size catch can for F/H series motors in the long-run. I will have photos of current/updated catch can described above tonight on first page of this thread.

[HondaFan81]

Interesting.

From my experience tho, don't you want some vacuum tho?

The only advantage I'm seeing with this setup is that it doesn't inhale any of the gases back into the combustion chamber.

The breather elements on the catch can do eleviate positive crankcase pressure.

For a high-revving all-motor setup, I would make a system like mine or based around the same idea. However, on a turbo setup making good power, a free-breathing system like this may not be sufficient enough. At that point, I would consider an even larger catch can system like the T1 can with 3 breathers on it I've seen around. Supposedly, it is designed to be capable of very high-HP motors.

I know read of setup with a slashcut on the exhaust downpipe, acting as a vacuum to help remove crankcase pressure. I wanted to see if my catch can idea was sufficient enough before going to that extent. Besides, I didn't like the idea of sending oil vapors into my hot exhaust system. I would rather integrate the idea of a vacuum pump if it got that ridiculous.

EDIT: Posted up photos of my new catch can on first page after the project motor install photo.

[HondaFan81]

how big is the inlet for the upper h23 plenum?

69mm outlet on the throttle body is huuuuge for an NA build, and i know the throttle body mating surface should be at least .002" smaller than the inlet of the upper plenum

TB specs:

74mm intake piping side
69mm plenum side
portmatched TB to plenum

It's all relevant to how well your motor is capable of breathing in/out.

[HondaFan81]

yeah, i was just wondering, the inlet on the upper plenum looked huge

people dont understand that plenum size dictates TB size, not the other way around.

it makes me sick when people throw a party for having a 70mm (non tapered) on a stock f22 upper plenum... then they cut a paper gasket to mate the surfaces rather than using a liquid gasket maker...
/end rant

anyway, happy to see you know what your doing though keep it up, i want to see this beast

I used Hondabond sealant on my entire motor. That included the TB/intake manifold system since it was all custom and no OEM gaskets fit.